Zach Randolph headed to the Bucks?

[d-train]

Where would he be a good fit exactly?

Zach would be perfect right here in Portland. I would love to trade Miles and Joel plus anything other than our core 3 for Zach.

[Butter]

This year

[Butter]

This is freaking awesome. I remember when we would debate with Bucks fans about how Zach would fit on their team, and all they would say was how the Bucks would never touch Zach because he's a criminal.

I am going to lmao when he's wearing a Bucks jersey, and they go all homer and explain how he's going to turn their franchise around.

[d-train]

Other than that whole chemistry thing that, you know, made it palatable for KP to send him out of town, leading to a team that clearly plays a better style than they ever did with Zach around.

Zach didn't coach the Blazers so he wasn't responsible for the team

[Khazim]

-= original quote snipped =-


Zach didn't coach the Blazers so he wasn't responsible for the team

[Voodoo]

-= original quote snipped =-


Zach didn't coach the Blazers so he wasn't responsible for the team

[Voodoo]

I totally agree with Mojo on this, Zach didn't fit here for a variety of reasons and he listed them out pretty nicely. I am surprised that anyone including you d are carrying a torch for him at this point. It seems pretty obvious (to me atleast) that the move has helped this team in so many ways, and it seems strange anyone would regret trading him or even at this point would want him back.

[mojomarc]

I totally agree with Mojo on this, Zach didn't fit here for a variety of reasons and he listed them out pretty nicely. I am surprised that anyone including you d are carrying a torch for him at this point. It seems pretty obvious (to me atleast) that the move has helped this team in so many ways, and it seems strange anyone would regret trading him or even at this point would want him back.

I don't think d-train is "carrying a torch" for Zach. I agree with him that Zach was a great individual player on the court, but I predicted way back when the trade was made that there was an "addition by subtraction" element to the trade that was extremely important that had nothing to do with Zach's skill level and I think it's the one prediction for this season I've had right.

[Spykes]

This is freaking awesome. I remember when we would debate with Bucks fans about how Zach would fit on their team, and all they would say was how the Bucks would never touch Zach because he's a criminal.

I am going to lmao when he's wearing a Bucks jersey, and they go all homer and explain how he's going to turn their franchise around.

They've already ate some similar crow once before when the Bucks traded for Ruben Patterson.

The Bucks are a great example of a team who's fans think that the management really values character, but in reality, the truth of the matter is that talent trumps all. There are really very few teams who truly stick by the mantra of only taking high character players.

[listerine]

I'll back d-train up a little bit.

If Zach were to buy into this current team system (and I believe he would, because it's hard not to when the team is winning games), he would be an AWESOME fit here. The team needs interior scoring and rebounding and Zach is one of the best in the league.

But there is a caveat. The Zach trade was just as much about Oden becoming our inside man as it was about Zach's personality. With Oden, Zach has no purpose.

That's why I think Zach would be excelling during this current streak, but he would have no place on the team after this season.

Do I wish Zach back? Am I unhappy with the trade? NO!! This team is AWESOME and the trade brought in Frye, Jones and eventually Rudy. It was a great deal.

But (as d-train points out) Blazer fans shouldn't forget that Zach started out as a garbage player. He helped bring the team back from a 3-0 deficit to Dallas the last time we were in the playoffs. He is a beast on the boards and he's unguardable in the paint. And those are our weaknesses.

So I agree with d-train that Zach would fit in with this style of play very well. Do I want him back? Not at all.

[swede]

Zach CAN pass. He just doesn't want to. Good riddance.

[Spykes]

I'll back d-train up a little bit.

If Zach were to buy into this current team system (and I believe he would, because it's hard not to when the team is winning games), he would be an AWESOME fit here. The team needs interior scoring and rebounding and Zach is one of the best in the league.

But there is a caveat. The Zach trade was just as much about Oden becoming our inside man as it was about Zach's personality. With Oden, Zach has no purpose.

That's why I think Zach would be excelling during this current streak, but he would have no place on the team after this season.

Do I wish Zach back? Am I unhappy with the trade? NO!! This team is AWESOME and the trade brought in Frye, Jones and eventually Rudy. It was a great deal.

But (as d-train points out) Blazer fans shouldn't forget that Zach started out as a garbage player. He helped bring the team back from a 3-0 deficit to Dallas the last time we were in the playoffs. He is a beast on the boards and he's unguardable in the paint. And those are our weaknesses.

So I agree with d-train that Zach would fit in with this style of play very well. Do I want him back? Not at all.

This whole post is a bit... (for lack of a better term) misleading. That's really not the word I'm looking for here, but I'm at a loss for an exact word here.

My point is that, yes, the "garbage player" that Zach was when he first starting making his name in the NBA (particularly during the Dallas series), would have been a BIG help to this team....

However, once the Blazers made a conscious decision to make him a #1 option on offense and he got his max contract, Zach was never really the same player. He stopped being a "garbage player" and he became the "black hole" we've seen ever since.

So in order for him to truly be a help to this team right now, he have to revert back to his old style from a few years ago, when he wasn't the focal point of the offense. Personally, I don't think he can do that. His ego won't allow it, not after being a #1 option for so long.

Also, I'm not even going to touch on how awful our defense would be if he was here right now.

[listerine]

"Misleading?" You make it sound like I have an agenda, Spykes...

I don't think we're really in disagreement here though. The player that Zach "can be" could really help this team (for 1 season, until Oden gets back). The player that Zach "is"? I don't know. Players are different people when they win and when they lose. There's only been one season (with the Dallas series) where Zach has been even close to winning.

It's a pointless argument though. I have zero interest in getting Zach back. I think he's immature and rather dim as a person and totally boring as a player.

I'm just backing up what d-train is saying - this team NEEDS interior scoring and rebounding.

But there's a kid who might be able to provide that. I forget his name...

[Spykes]

"Misleading?" You make it sound like I have an agenda, Spykes...

Like I said, that wasn't really the word I was looking for. No offense was intended.

[mojomarc]

I have zero interest in getting Zach back. I think he's immature and rather dim as a person and totally boring as a player.

I'm just backing up what d-train is saying - this team NEEDS interior scoring and rebounding.

I think there's a big difference between saying this team needs interior scoring and rebounding, which most of us agree with, and saying that Zach would help the team. That was my point earlier--if Zach only brought the on-court stuff, and didn't bring the "immaturity" and "dimness" and selfishness along, that would be one thing, but Zach brought the other two, and that was the reason he was shipped out of town. He certainly wasn't shipped out because people weren't satisfied with the stats.

[Wizenheimer]

well, Zach played 10 minutes tonight and managed 1 rebound and zero points before Zeke benched him for the rest of the game.

and anyone who believes that portland would be a better team with randolph instead of with Jones and Frye is delusional

[Voodoo]

well, Zach played 10 minutes tonight and managed 1 rebound and zero points before Zeke benched him for the rest of the game.

and anyone who believes that portland would be a better team with randolph instead of with Jones and Frye is delusional

Yeah that is how I feel as well, and I do believe d-train is carrying a torch for Zach. Every time it comes up he still talks up the guy like hes the next superstar of the NBA or something heh.

[d-train]

You are totally missing my point. Zach wasn't sent out of town because of how he played--he was sent out of town because of who he was as a person.

I think we can all agree that while Zach has a ton of talent and is a great one-on-one offensive player in the low post, but he isn't without his weaknesses. The stories that have come out made it clear--Zach believed his sh*t didn't stink, and sat around blaming everyone else for the team's poor play. He never was willing, if the stories are to be believed, to look at his how his unwillingness most of the time to even think of passing to an open teammate, his inability to rotate as a defensive helper, etc. This is what I mean when I say chemistry.

I'm not willing to get into a debate about the personality and character of a person I don't know. I can't vouch for Zach's character and certainly don't know if he is a bad person. I do believe Zach would still be a Blazer today if we didn't get Oden in the draft and that says all there is to say on the subject of Zach's so called bad character.

I do agree Zach has weaknesses but so do Tim Duncan and Brandon Roy. Sure, Zach has more weaknesses than great players do but Zach has strengths that overcome those weaknesses. I believe a couple of Zach's important strengths are that he is coachable and he loves playing basketball. He is not one of the guys in the NBA just collecting a paycheck. Zach wants to play, he wants the respect of his peers, and I don't subscribe to theory that he is too dimwitted to understand team concepts.

I'm not in this discussion to say I think the Zach trade was bad. I know every time I refute Zach bashing that is what some of you think I'm saying. The Blazers are not playing better basketball because Zach is gone. Blazers are playing good basketball because of the great play of Roy. Roy is a developing all-star and he would be even better if Zach was here to help him out a little. Sure, Greg Oden would be even more helpful than Zach would be.

Right now, if there is one thing that is apparent with this team as they are playing at the moment is that no one seems to really care more about their own stats than winning. Brandon Roy, for example, is the clear star of the team, but in the last game he spent his time dishing assists, and in the Utah game he volunteered to be a decoy despite being injured. He was willing to sacrifice his usual game to the greater good of winning. You can argue that Brandon didn't have much of a choice because he was injured, but that misses the point again--Zach would have just sat, saying he was too injured rather than accepting the role of a decoy, or alternatively he would have played and tried to force his shots up even though he wasn't in the physical condition necessary to be effective. If I were to point at one major change with this team since the start of the streak, this would be it. John Hollinger pointed it out--no one player really has stood out as having had a major statistical improvement since the start of the streak for us (with the lone exception of James Jones being in the game), but we're winning. I know you'll probably disagree, but I have a pretty active imagination and yet I cannot envision any scenario where that could have happened with Zach.

And in case it wasn't clear--none of this really has much at all to do with Nate's view of who our primary offensive option is.

The Blazers are playing good basketball because they finally have a great player again for the first time since Rasheed Wallace was traded. Brandon Roy is a great player and he is making a difference. I can't imagine the Blazers enjoying any success this year without Brandon Roy. The success of the team would be even greater if Zach was here to help Roy and the team.

[ph1sh55]

You think our success would be greater if we had Zach too? Based on what? How would our ball movement be? I mean there's next to no empirical evidence to support that theory- Zach demands the ball and as we've seen in new york even when the gameplan isn't to do so, he completely stagnates the offense... He is also a great liability on help defense..I can't imagine our zone defense working with him in the lineup. Every time he spends whining to the ref instead of getting back on D just deflates his teammates. Everytime he misses a help D assignment it deflates his teammates. Everytime he monopolizes the ball instead of finding the open man he deflates his teammates because very rarely is it going to come back and make them an active part of the offense.

We would be a much worse team as has been shown with past data. You can theorize if you'd like but it doesn't have much real world support, there is a reason that Roy was potentially the player who said zach had to go, and it was ALL about his attitude and play on the court. When Zach went down (and before Ime went down) there was a great transformation in the offense and it was a natural transformation to where they were sharing the ball.

[candy for lunch]

Brandon was pretty good last year yet with Zach as our primary option we sucked.

Zach is one of NY's primary options this year and they suck too.

This probably isn't a coincidence.