Nurkic for Ayton

[bwgood77]

Keep in mind that a lot of the games Nurk has missed over the past two seasons were due to tanking, and prior to that, you're looking at a massive leg injury.

He's a quality starter overall, but if you were frustrated by Ayton's finishing, hold onto your shorts. Nurks numbers in the paint are notably worse. 20% lower at the rim in fact. Not for lack of ability, he just puts up these lazy flips. He's also prone to fumbling the ball and making bone headed passes.

But he can shoot, he has a decent 3pt shot now. He's had some good advanced defense stats in his career, not lately so much, but that might be a product of the team.

He's also prone to fumbling the ball and making bone headed passes.

This is the part the rabid anti Ayton haters on our board are salivating over, the fact that he is supposed to be a decent passer.

He will make some nice passes. He has that ability. But it sure seems the stat recorders only record about 1 out of ever 3 of his turnovers. His hands are terrible. That's probably a bigger issue than his passing in fact.

He can put up monster games stat was. 30 pts 20 boards, 5 assists, 5 blocks....

In time you're just going to be like "Dunk the fing ball" "Grab the fing ball"

Are you talking about Nurk or Ayton? I know Nurk has a lot of turnovers and makes nice passes. Ayton never has 5 blocks but he can be a good passer too. If defenders cave in general or after an offensive board, he will always find the open 3 pt shooter. Of course a lot of fans wanted him to try to take on a double team instead of find the open 3 pt guy.

[Goldbum]

Well Nurkic is heavier, sets better screens, is a better passer, floor spacer and at DHOs. Those are the reasons that PHX can be optimistic. Ayton is so much more talented, mobile, athletic, and a superior finisher. I think he can put up 24/12 on terrific efficiency. Timelord, Ayton, Grant is a helluva 3 big rotation. Ant, Scoot, Shaedon is a terrific 3 guard rotation. Now we've just got to clean up the wings. The good news is we still have Brogdan to get the SF we desperately need and we have Matisse and a ton of wing prospects that could 'pop'.

Rupert/Camara/Murray/Walker/Butler is a lot of prospects. They could all be J.A.G.s, but most of them have great length and position size for the 3 along with at least one other high end trait that if developed could make an impact.

[Wizenheimer]

Are you talking about Nurk or Ayton? I know Nurk has a lot of turnovers and makes nice passes. Ayton never has 5 blocks but he can be a good passer too. If defenders cave in general or after an offensive board, he will always find the open 3 pt shooter. Of course a lot of fans wanted him to try to take on a double team instead of find the open 3 pt guy.

Nurk can make some nice passes. And yes, those are offset to a degree by his turnovers, although many of his turnovers are for illegal screens

but other than health, Nurk's biggest issue is that he simply throws up weaks shots around the rim; wild shots that have no chance of being converted. Dumb shots that often ignite transition for the opposing team. He's impatient and that's inexcusable for a guy his size who is a 9 year veteran

compare Nukic's at-the rim (0-3') conversion rate, last year/career to other bigs:

Wendall Carter Jr .850/.739
DeAndre Jordan .837/.728
Evan Mobley .817/.792
Embiid .810/.744
Ayon .806/.772
KAT .791/.710
AD .788/.741
Jokic .783/.717
Mitchell Robinson .781/.743
B. Lopez .771/.676
Jarrett Allen .764/.752
Sabonis .762/.716
Poeltl .761/.724
Gobert .748/.741
Porzingis .740/.693
Looney .734/.715
Capela .728/.710
Valanciunas .727/.684
Adebayo .714/.730
Zubac .702/.689

Nurkic .645/.611

it's not that he's just about the worst at it among big's right now, but that's he almost historically bad for a guy his size.

he's also fallen way off as a rim protector. He still plays sold defense in the paint (when he's motivated), but he can't alter shots like he used to and my hunch is that his accumulated injuries have left him more floor-bound

[tester551]

I just listened to a podcast that compared Camara to Jarace and implied Camara might be a better shooter and more athletic. A Jarace Walker type forward would be amazing. Not saying that I'm buying the take...but dang that would be a steal.

Was the podcast hosted by his Mother by chance?

[DC_Melo]

Well Nurkic is heavier, sets better screens, is a better passer, floor spacer and at DHOs. Those are the reasons that PHX can be optimistic. Ayton is so much more talented, mobile, athletic, and a superior finisher. I think he can put up 24/12 on terrific efficiency. Timelord, Ayton, Grant is a helluva 3 big rotation. Ant, Scoot, Shaedon is a terrific 3 guard rotation. Now we've just got to clean up the wings. The good news is we still have Brogdan to get the SF we desperately need and we have Matisse and a ton of wing prospects that could 'pop'.

Rupert/Camara/Murray/Walker/Butler is a lot of prospects. They could all be J.A.G.s, but most of them have great length and position size for the 3 along with at least one other high end trait that if developed could make an impact.

I’m curious to see how Matisse does this year. His play has really seemed to trend upward since the second half of last year, including in the Fiba tourney, so I have some optimism he might make a step forward as the 3-D guy we need on the wing.

But guys with unorthodox shooting forms always make me nervous when it comes to their shooting in the playoffs when D’s focus on stopping the stars and make the role players beat them (see: Aminu, Al-Faruq). Those forms seem to struggle under the duress of higher volume.

Regardless, Matisse looks like he can be a difference maker on the floor, especially on the defensive side where he is easily our best player. Considering we got him signed to a 3/33 and he is just entering his prime, it would be a steal if he can turn into a high quality starter.

Wouldn’t be surprised if our starting lineup was:

Scoot
Simons/Sharpe (I think more likely Simons)
Thybulle
Grant
Ayton

That’s a starting 5 with a good balance of offensive and defensive talent.

[Whole Truth]

Well Nurkic is heavier, sets better screens, is a better passer, floor spacer and at DHOs. Those are the reasons that PHX can be optimistic. Ayton is so much more talented, mobile, athletic, and a superior finisher. I think he can put up 24/12 on terrific efficiency. Timelord, Ayton, Grant is a helluva 3 big rotation. Ant, Scoot, Shaedon is a terrific 3 guard rotation. Now we've just got to clean up the wings. The good news is we still have Brogdan to get the SF we desperately need and we have Matisse and a ton of wing prospects that could 'pop'.

Rupert/Camara/Murray/Walker/Butler is a lot of prospects. They could all be J.A.G.s, but most of them have great length and position size for the 3 along with at least one other high end trait that if developed could make an impact.

I’m curious to see how Matisse does this year. His play has really seemed to trend upward since the second half of last year, including in the Fiba tourney, so I have some optimism he might make a step forward as the 3-D guy we need on the wing.

But guys with unorthodox shooting forms always make me nervous when it comes to their shooting in the playoffs when D’s focus on stopping the stars and make the role players beat them (see: Aminu, Al-Faruq). Those forms seem to struggle under the duress of higher volume.

Regardless, Matisse looks like he can be a difference maker on the floor, especially on the defensive side where he is easily our best player. Considering we got him signed to a 3/33 and he is just entering his prime, it would be a steal if he can turn into a high quality starter.

Wouldn’t be surprised if our starting lineup was:

Scoot
Simons/Sharpe (I think more likely Simons)
Thybulle
Grant
Ayton

That’s a starting 5 with a good balance of offensive and defensive talent.

IMO that should be your starting rotation. Pair Scoot with one your best guard shooters to help space the court, as well as provide a stable veteran presence to his complimentary skillset. With that, you'd then have Sharpe coming off the bench with the veteran PG Brogdon for another veteran complimentary skillset to a player who's more "raw" talent, would be coming off the bench against lesser comp for his bigger development curve.

If Thybulle struggles to help space the floor & Sharpe shows a considerable step in his development. Use him at SF to help space the court with Grant, Simons for Ayton & Scoot's 2 man, p'n'r, p'n'p game.

A Boston poster was claiming Williams will take Ayton's starting spot before you can blink because he played on a Boston squad that had no spacing issues as if all things are equal. Ayton has a strong mid range, pop game to draw attention from the rim & if not, Scoot can throw the ball in for an occasional post up, rested possession, apposed to trying to drive into traffic on a constant basis with Williams & his lack of spacing. If 3pt Shooting was a strong suit for Scoot, then Williams as a rim runner could be electric but unfortunately shooting a & height are Scoots 2 biggest knocks as a talent to be constantly driving into clogged lanes with players sagging, even if he does have grown man strength as a rookie. It's not conducive to a successful environment. You'd be banking on teams respecting Thybulle as a threat but it's why he's in Portland & not Philly. However, with Ayton's skillset, there's more firmilarity for him playing with a big like Embiid.

It's hard to factor chemistry of a major revamped rotation but that lineup, especially if Scoot hits the floor running is definitely, not a bottom 5 team.

Ya dig.

[enigmatics]

Some of the Ayton haters on the Suns board are absolutely ecstatic we got Nurkic and that someone hes going to do all the things Ayton didn't do but I think they will be in for a rude awakening when Nurkic will miss almost half the season with a number of injuries.


Ayton still has a lot of potential and at only 25 his best years are still ahead of him, if he can work on his handle and learn to use his size to draw a few free throws he's going to a few all star games for sure. He just needs to play in an environment where the team is willing to let him make mistakes and grow his game which isn't something the Suns fans and organization weren't willing to do.

Keep in mind that a lot of the games Nurk has missed over the past two seasons were due to tanking, and prior to that, you're looking at a massive leg injury.

He's a quality starter overall, but if you were frustrated by Ayton's finishing, hold onto your shorts. Nurks numbers in the paint are notably worse. 20% lower at the rim in fact. Not for lack of ability, he just puts up these lazy flips. He's also prone to fumbling the ball and making bone headed passes.

But he can shoot, he has a decent 3pt shot now. He's had some good advanced defense stats in his career, not lately so much, but that might be a product of the team.

Some of us grew increasingly more frustrated about Ayton's absolute refusal to finish STRONG at the rim because that should be part of his arsenal given his physical talents. His triple pump fakes with no defenders around him and bricking bunnies became a thing of sheer comedy.

With Nurkic - I know I'm personally not looking for that out of him. He's an entirely different kind of center with other skillsets that I find infinitely more valuable to how the Suns are currently constructed. Specifically the spacing is going to be so much better now to allow the Big 3 to cook.

That being said it's pretty obvious DA sand bagged the team the last two years during a championship window. That's the fabric of guy you're getting. He's the polar opposite of a guy like Booker - who suffered just as much as DA did thru various failed coaching/regime changed, but never let it lower his level of integrity. He just kept working harder.

[ebott]

In an interview with Casey Holdahl, Ayton said he was just happy to be a Blazer and it made me so happy.

[DC_Melo]

Some of the Ayton haters on the Suns board are absolutely ecstatic we got Nurkic and that someone hes going to do all the things Ayton didn't do but I think they will be in for a rude awakening when Nurkic will miss almost half the season with a number of injuries.


Ayton still has a lot of potential and at only 25 his best years are still ahead of him, if he can work on his handle and learn to use his size to draw a few free throws he's going to a few all star games for sure. He just needs to play in an environment where the team is willing to let him make mistakes and grow his game which isn't something the Suns fans and organization weren't willing to do.

Keep in mind that a lot of the games Nurk has missed over the past two seasons were due to tanking, and prior to that, you're looking at a massive leg injury.

He's a quality starter overall, but if you were frustrated by Ayton's finishing, hold onto your shorts. Nurks numbers in the paint are notably worse. 20% lower at the rim in fact. Not for lack of ability, he just puts up these lazy flips. He's also prone to fumbling the ball and making bone headed passes.

But he can shoot, he has a decent 3pt shot now. He's had some good advanced defense stats in his career, not lately so much, but that might be a product of the team.

Some of us grew increasingly more frustrated about Ayton's absolute refusal to finish STRONG at the rim because that should be part of his arsenal given his physical talents. His triple pump fakes with no defenders around him and bricking bunnies became a thing of sheer comedy.

With Nurkic - I know I'm personally not looking for that out of him. He's an entirely different kind of center with other skillsets that I find infinitely more valuable to how the Suns are currently constructed. Specifically the spacing is going to be so much better now to allow the Big 3 to cook.

That being said it's pretty obvious DA sand bagged the team the last two years during a championship window. That's the fabric of guy you're getting. He's the polar opposite of a guy like Booker - who suffered just as much as DA did thru various failed coaching/regime changed, but never let it lower his level of integrity. He just kept working harder.

Agreed that Nurk is very different and he might pleasantly surprise Suns fans… he’s not as bad as his rep on these discussion boards seem to indicate. He’s a solid defender and rebounder and has a nice shooting touch. Plus he’s an excellent passer in any offense… he’s a net positive when healthy and I actually think his contract is pretty fair value for his talent level.

Buuuuuut… if you get frustrated with soft takes and bad misses around the rim… Ayton’s got nothing on Nurk.

[BlazersBroncos]

Keep in mind that a lot of the games Nurk has missed over the past two seasons were due to tanking, and prior to that, you're looking at a massive leg injury.

He's a quality starter overall, but if you were frustrated by Ayton's finishing, hold onto your shorts. Nurks numbers in the paint are notably worse. 20% lower at the rim in fact. Not for lack of ability, he just puts up these lazy flips. He's also prone to fumbling the ball and making bone headed passes.

But he can shoot, he has a decent 3pt shot now. He's had some good advanced defense stats in his career, not lately so much, but that might be a product of the team.

Some of us grew increasingly more frustrated about Ayton's absolute refusal to finish STRONG at the rim because that should be part of his arsenal given his physical talents. His triple pump fakes with no defenders around him and bricking bunnies became a thing of sheer comedy.

With Nurkic - I know I'm personally not looking for that out of him. He's an entirely different kind of center with other skillsets that I find infinitely more valuable to how the Suns are currently constructed. Specifically the spacing is going to be so much better now to allow the Big 3 to cook.

That being said it's pretty obvious DA sand bagged the team the last two years during a championship window. That's the fabric of guy you're getting. He's the polar opposite of a guy like Booker - who suffered just as much as DA did thru various failed coaching/regime changed, but never let it lower his level of integrity. He just kept working harder.

Agreed that Nurk is very different and he might pleasantly surprise Suns fans… he’s not as bad as his rep on these discussion boards seem to indicate. He’s a solid defender and rebounder and has a nice shooting touch. Plus he’s an excellent passer in any offense… he’s a net positive when healthy and I actually think his contract is pretty fair value for his talent level.

Buuuuuut… if you get frustrated with soft takes and bad misses around the rim… Ayton’s got nothing on Nurk.

Ya, I think Nurkic is a much better fit offensively on a team stacked with scorers - he can spread the floor, sets elite screens / DHO and is a much better passer than Ayton. But he is almost historically bad at finishing at the basket.

[garrick]

Nurkic was horrible in our first preseason game.

Couldn't keep up with defenders and was in foul trouble early, couldn't make easy shots near the basket and just generally very slow footed and couldn't get to his spots in the paint without fouling.

He did have several nice passes but to me it's clear we took a downgrade at center.

[ebott]

Ayton voted MVP at fanfest. Big fan so far.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Ayton is just in his physical prime at 25 and as a big has NBA skills. A few years in and a guy is largely what he is. With bigs, it’s taken longer, so he has every reason to improve.

What does he need most? Same thing as Nurkic. Good health and consistent effort/motor. He’s better than Nurkic (overall), so it’s a good trade given other contracts out the door.
The Blazers got one very good player at 6’8 or taller out of the Lillard/Nurkic trade … which is what I wanted. I really haven’t watched Brogdon or Camara.

[b33nine]

Nurkic was horrible in our first preseason game.

Couldn't keep up with defenders and was in foul trouble early, couldn't make easy shots near the basket and just generally very slow footed and couldn't get to his spots in the paint without fouling.

He did have several nice passes but to me it's clear we took a downgrade at center.

I still have a fondness for Nurk, but I don't think anybody would be able to legitimately tell you that the Nurk/Ayton trade was made for basketball reasons. Nurk has come into the season out of shape for a few years in a row now, so hopefully in a month or so he'll be more up to speed and helping you guys play some great basketball.

[spanishninja]

Nurkic was horrible in our first preseason game.

Couldn't keep up with defenders and was in foul trouble early, couldn't make easy shots near the basket and just generally very slow footed and couldn't get to his spots in the paint without fouling.

He did have several nice passes but to me it's clear we took a downgrade at center.

I still have a fondness for Nurk, but I don't think anybody would be able to legitimately tell you that the Nurk/Ayton trade was made for basketball reasons. Nurk has come into the season out of shape for a few years in a row now, so hopefully in a month or so he'll be more up to speed and helping you guys play some great basketball.

If you look at the fact that we got Nurk and Grayson Allen (who definitely could have a major role to play for us), the basketball reasons thing still holds water.

[RTG HD]

Nurkic was horrible in our first preseason game.

Couldn't keep up with defenders and was in foul trouble early, couldn't make easy shots near the basket and just generally very slow footed and couldn't get to his spots in the paint without fouling.

He did have several nice passes but to me it's clear we took a downgrade at center.

I still have a fondness for Nurk, but I don't think anybody would be able to legitimately tell you that the Nurk/Ayton trade was made for basketball reasons. Nurk has come into the season out of shape for a few years in a row now, so hopefully in a month or so he'll be more up to speed and helping you guys play some great basketball.

If you look at the fact that we got Nurk and Grayson Allen (who definitely could have a major role to play for us), the basketball reasons thing still holds water.

You also got Nassir Little who can make a contribution if healthy. I believe both Ayton and Nurk needed a change and the overall trade helped both teams.

[Norm2953]

Interesting to see the Phoenix board has 8 pages dedicated to this pre-season game.

They seemed stoked over tonight's Nurk

[zzaj]

Interesting to see the Phoenix board has 8 pages dedicated to this pre-season game.

They seemed stoked over tonight's Nurk

Glad for them…I guess?

[RTG HD]

Interesting to see the Phoenix board has 8 pages dedicated to this pre-season game.

They seemed stoked over tonight's Nurk

Yeah if he keeps up the energy I think they will love him. Being a contender I think the Suns have a better chance of keeping Nurk motivated than we would.

[enigmatics]

Interesting to see the Phoenix board has 8 pages dedicated to this pre-season game.

They seemed stoked over tonight's Nurk

I would like to claim some of that. I smiled ear to ear that he came to play 2nite even though it was a preseason affair.

His performance is almost EXACTLY what I'm hoping the Suns get from him this year. I can't even express how much more dynamic he makes the offense, especially since there's nowhere he can't pass into in the half court. He also showed the 3 ball!

His defense will tighten up as he gets adjusted to Vogel and communication with his new teammates. Not expecting a world beater or anything, but he showed he can still impact shots.