keep Brogdon, trade Simons?

[dunlop212]

Didn't know much about Brogdon before the trade, but the more I see, the more I like. He's bigger than Simons, shoots better. Won 6th man award. Simons is younger, but I kind of feel that we have seen peak Simons, and Brogdon is only 30. Saw Brogdon's training camp interview; very articulate and impressive guy who wants to be a Blazer. Just based on what I've seen, you would want Brogdon, not Simons, mentoring Scoot and Sharpe. I am not close to the team, just a casual fan, so I am probably missing something.

Simons has a way better contract?
Brogdon has unresolved injury issues?
We want to keep the team crummy to get a better lottery pick?
Simons has no trade value?
Brogdon has big contract value?
Team thinks Simons about to improve dramatically?
Brogdon a locker room cancer, especially if he doesn't start?

Educate me; I have an open mind on this.

[RTG HD]

Team thinks Simons about to improve dramatically is the answer but it is likely both will be on the roster next season.

[Butter]

I was on this train yesterday too. Couple thoughts today.

1. The Blazers probably get max value for Simons at the deadline, if he balls out

2. The Locked On Celtics guy said Brogdon is being a "good Soldier" right now, bit he wants to be on a contender where he has a shot at a title

[GEE]

My gut keeps telling me that Brogden will end up in Philly, as part of the return needed for Morey to send Harden to the Clippers. I really hope I'm wrong though, and still hope we can trade him before seasons' beginning for a good, young, blue-chip big man... and I don't really see one on either the Clips or Sixers roster. I'm also just fine keeping him for a while if he wants to be here. I would not start him though.

As for Simons, I still firmly believe posters on here are HUGELY underestimating what Simons future contributions to this Blazer team will be. People here still think he is trade bait, but I have always believed that he has earned, and will be our starting PG starting next season. Scoot, I'm guessing will back him up as our 6th man. I also believe Chauncey is old-scool enough to allow for the swap of the two's spots if earned, which we very well may see in time, but not to start this season.

I hope to see a rotation like below, but I also very much think we still NEED a young starting caliber PF in exchange for Brogden. If we don't get one, we will be forced to go a little bit small, and maybe that's the plan but I do think will Simons starts.

Simons / Scoot / Brogden (til he's traded)
Sharpe
Thybulle / Camara / Murray
Grant / Walker / Knox
Ayton / TimeLord / Reath / Brown

The above looks really unbalanced. But if you look at it in an old-school way... it looks much better.

Guards: Simons / Scoot / Brogden
Wings: Sharpe / Thybulle / Grant / Walker / Camara / Knox / Murray
Post: Ayton / Timelord / Reath / Brown

I think this team though, WILL thrill us all and be the surprise talk of the league in no time. Calling it now.

[Skybox]

From ORL perspective, I’d love to bring Simons home and put the ball in his hands in a lead guard position. We have Suggs as a complementary defensive-minded backcourt partner. For POR, I imagine Scoot and Sharpe are the very near (very promising) future. I don’t see any way Scoot isn’t handed the ball from day 1, for better or worse and I love the addition of and Time Lord too. Imo, putting Simons next to Scoot diminishes their advantage with Sharpe and puts you back in that no-defensive sized backcourt you had for a decade with Dame/CJ. Simons might be an ideal sixth man, but it might be too early in the rebuild to pay a guy $25m for that role.

If Brogdon isn’t a locker room problem (he’s definitely a good guy- just maybe not an ideal situation), trading Simons for value now might make more sense. Good problem to have.

[Dame Lizard]

My gut keeps telling me that Brogden will end up in Philly, as part of the return needed for Morey to send Harden to the Clippers. I really hope I'm wrong though, and still hope we can trade him before seasons' beginning for a good, young, blue-chip big man... and I don't really see one on either the Clips or Sixers roster. I'm also just fine keeping him for a while if he wants to be here. I would not start him though.

As for Simons, I still firmly believe posters on here are HUGELY underestimating what Simons future contributions to this Blazer team will be. People here still think he is trade bait, but I have always believed that he has earned, and will be our starting PG starting next season. Scoot, I'm guessing will back him up as our 6th man. I also believe Chauncey is old-scool enough to allow for the swap of the two's spots if earned, which we very well may see in time, but not to start this season.

I hope to see a rotation like below, but I also very much think we still NEED a young starting caliber PF in exchange for Brogden. If we don't get one, we will be forced to go a little bit small, and maybe that's the plan but I do think will Simons starts.

Simons / Scoot / Brogden (til he's traded)
Sharpe
Thybulle / Camara / Murray
Grant / Walker / Knox
Ayton / TimeLord / Reath / Brown

The above looks really unbalanced. But if you look at it in an old-school way... it looks much better.

Guards: Simons / Scoot / Brogden
Wings: Sharpe / Thybulle / Grant / Walker / Camara / Knox / Murray
Post: Ayton / Timelord / Reath / Brown

I think this team though, WILL thrill us all and be the surprise talk of the league in no time. Calling it now.

I agree that people underrate Simons, however, he is not a PG. He can 'get away with it'. But getting away with it isn't what you need to build a contender.

He's an uber talented player, and would work fantastically as a SG along a taller defensive PG, e.g. a Simmons.

[BlazersBroncos]

I am totally on board moving Simons but I think we will want a prospect in return.

Something like Fultz or Harris + Jett Howard + DEN 25 FRP.

I think PDX would need a strong offer like the above to move him. Not just EC and a future pick.

[m0ng0]

I think Brogdon is saying the right things which is a smart vet move, but I don't think he wants to be here for a rebuild. I think he has to prove he is healthy, also it was reported he was unhappy in Boston based on trade rumors and he does not really fit our timeline. I would love to keep him as long as he is happy here as the 2nd guard off the bench would be GREAT, but I think he sees himself as a starter or 6th man. And here that spot will be taken by one of Scoot, Simons, Sharpe or Williams.

[Goldbum]

We are desperately short of playmakers and shooters. Brogdan has excellent positional size for a PG and can space the floor. Ideally we'd find a 6'8" version of Malcom to play at starting SF. With Brogdan backing up PG and SG unfortunately Sharpe will likely play about 24-26 minutes a game at SF. So the rotation could look something like:

PG Scoot(30) Malcolm (18)
SGAnt(32)Malcolm (10) Sharpe (6)
SF Thybulle (24) Sharpe (24)
PF Grant 34) Timelord (14)
C Ayton (34) Timelord (14)

Ayton 34
Grant 34
Ant 32
Scoot 30
Brogdan 28
Timelord 28
Matisse 24

If they move Brogdan and Grant that's 62 development minutes post deadline to roll out the tank and improve the "other" players we will need next season. Who knows but that's probably how I would roll it out. The hope is that all of Shaedon's end up at SG the last couple months.

[Norm2953]

From ORL perspective, I’d love to bring Simons home and put the ball in his hands in a lead guard position. We have Suggs as a complementary defensive-minded backcourt partner. For POR, I imagine Scoot and Sharpe are the very near (very promising) future. I don’t see any way Scoot isn’t handed the ball from day 1, for better or worse and I love the addition of and Time Lord too. Imo, putting Simons next to Scoot diminishes their advantage with Sharpe and puts you back in that no-defensive sized backcourt you had for a decade with Dame/CJ. Simons might be an ideal sixth man, but it might be too early in the rebuild to pay a guy $25m for that role.

If Brogdon isn’t a locker room problem (he’s definitely a good guy- just maybe not an ideal situation), trading Simons for value now might make more sense. Good problem to have.

Is there any advance word on how Black is doing in the early scrimmages prior to fall camp?

[Skybox]

From ORL perspective, I’d love to bring Simons home and put the ball in his hands in a lead guard position. We have Suggs as a complementary defensive-minded backcourt partner. For POR, I imagine Scoot and Sharpe are the very near (very promising) future. I don’t see any way Scoot isn’t handed the ball from day 1, for better or worse and I love the addition of and Time Lord too. Imo, putting Simons next to Scoot diminishes their advantage with Sharpe and puts you back in that no-defensive sized backcourt you had for a decade with Dame/CJ. Simons might be an ideal sixth man, but it might be too early in the rebuild to pay a guy $25m for that role.

If Brogdon isn’t a locker room problem (he’s definitely a good guy- just maybe not an ideal situation), trading Simons for value now might make more sense. Good problem to have.

Is there any advance word on how Black is doing in the early scrimmages prior to fall camp?

ONLY based on Magic Thread Homers...
-Black is running with third team...which, ridiculously (IMO) matches the likeliest rotation after Fultz & Cole
-I've seen vids of him hitting a lot of corner 3's, but his form looks suspect to me and that's his profile (not a great shooter)
-he's big and can definitely handle and defend

I see him as a bigger, better defending Fultz (Fultz is a good defender), with a propensity to draw fouls on the way to the hoop. I don't understand why they'd draft him at 6 in a loaded draft if they don't plan to get him in the mix. Personally, I don't feel like Fultz is a good fit with Paolo & Franz (who are THE cornerstones), so -unless he starts magically lighting it up from 3 - I'd move Fultz out as a large expiring salary and give Cole Anthony and Black a lot more room to show what they can do. Black is really very intriguing (and cost-controlled) but ORL needs at least one floor spreader in the backcourt, IMO.

[Wizenheimer]

Brogdon is a better player than Simons. He's a better PG; and he's a better SG. He also has much better size. And importantly, he's good at defense while Ant is absolutely terrible at defense

furthermore, Brogdon is the reigning 6th Man of the Year. So he's demonstrated he's extremely good at coming off the bench. Ant hasn't shown that

Unfortunately, the Blazers seem determined to trot out the 9th straight season of a starting back court of a 6'2 PG and an under-6'3 SG, with that 6'3 SG having no defensive ability, no wing ability, no 2-way ability, and no 3&D ability. I wish the Blazers would keep Brogdon and trade Ant, but they seem stubbornly determined to fail for a 9th straight year with a tiny-bad-defense guard combo

[zzaj]

The Blazers need to determine what they are going to do with Grant. If he's going to become the SF of the future (I think he can be) then the Blazers need to package some of the players for the PF of the future--a young promising PF that fits the timeline and has a good contract.

I have been a huge fan of Brogdon since before he was drafted--I always like all-around players. I even pushed for the Blazers to trade for him last year...anyway, I have a hard time believing he'd be happy on a baby Blazers team, even if I think his knowledge of how to get things done without supreme atheleticism would be very useful to most of the young Blazers.

[tester551]

Brogdon is a better player than Simons. He's a better PG; and he's a better SG. He also has much better size. And importantly, he's good at defense while Ant is absolutely terrible at defense

furthermore, Brogdon is the reigning 6th Man of the Year. So he's demonstrated he's extremely good at coming off the bench. Ant hasn't shown that

Unfortunately, the Blazers seem determined to trot out the 9th straight season of a starting back court of a 6'2 PG and an under-6'3 SG, with that 6'3 SG having no defensive ability, no wing ability, no 2-way ability, and no 3&D ability. I wish the Blazers would keep Brogdon and trade Ant, but they seem stubbornly determined to fail for a 9th straight year with a tiny-bad-defense guard combo

Completely agree...

But the argument is that Ant can score 25+ ppg (while giving up 30+). Scoring the ball is tantalizing for some.

[mighty_duck]

He also has much better size.

Agreed on all points but this one:

Anfernee Simons Height w/o shoes: 6' 2.25'' reach: 8' 3.5'' wingspan 6' 9.25''
Malcolm Brogdon Height w/o shoes: 6' 3.75'' reach 8' 2'' wingspan 6' 10.5''

Brogdon has only marginally better size. Ant certainly PLAYS smaller though!

[BlazersBroncos]

He also has much better size.

Agreed on all points but this one:

Anfernee Simons Height w/o shoes: 6' 2.25'' reach: 8' 3.5'' wingspan 6' 9.25''
Malcolm Brogdon Height w/o shoes: 6' 3.75'' reach 8' 2'' wingspan 6' 10.5''

Brogdon has only marginally better size. Ant certainly PLAYS smaller though!

Weight / strength should be inclueded when talking about size.

Ant is listed at 181lbs.
Brogdan is listed at 229lbs.

Thats a hell of a difference.

[Effigy]

I would like us to trade Simmons, but I think his value is really low. Not sure we'd get anything we'd want for him.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

Ideally trade them both eventually, it just depends on which one gets the better offer first.


I almost wouldn't be surprised if they are our starters day 1. Let them both boost their value, as well as Grant's by not hampering him with having to carry a couple young players against opposing starting lineups. Then you bring in Scoot/Sharpe as a change of pace and let them attack freely and then mix and match during the game depending on who is have a game. By the trade deadline you move the vets and open minutes for the Scoot/Sharpe combo to take over.

I know some will disagree and think there is something magic about handing a rookie the keys on day one, but I personally think there is a usefulness to keeping around a guy with a ton of experience and versatility like Brogdon, especially at the beginning of the year. Let him kind of set the tone and get this team working together and figured out so we don't run the risk of our rooks being exposed early and fighting uphill against that the rest of the season. Let them take over when they have earned it by getting in rhythm and beasting out from off the bench, then they will have something to stand on when they eventually get exposed by more experienced players.

That said, many ways to develop a player, maybe Scoot is thrown in the fire on day 1, especially if he poised and in control during training camp and shows Billups he deserves it. Then having someone like Brogdon to come in and take over and keep things running smooth or step in if Scoot runs into trouble could be a very nice veteran presence to have. I have always thought that having a competent lead guard is so essential to get the most out of the other 4 guys on the court and have them play their best, so when you have a rookie PG you are putting big pressure and expectations on it is really smart to have a steady hand to step in if/when its needed.

[Pattycakes]

Can we just let the front office keep cooking and building our depth and ceiling?

Think people are not realizing how deeply talented this team already is.

[JasonStern]

No.

If nobody wants Brogdon, that's on Brogdon.

Keep the core.

Wizenheimer: But Simons is an inefficient chucker whose stats only look good because his usage rate is through the roof.

I am aware. And I am not opposed to moving Simons down the line. But right now, Brogdon's value is probably only going to go down. And Simons' value is probably going to go up. So unless there is an overpay, which we saw with Herro is not going to happen soon, just play the hand the Blazers were dealt.

Still disappointed we didn't dumpster dive John Collins when his value was all-time low. Have a feeling that could have been a Julius Randle tier incremental improvement. Fine committing to a tank if the team is serious about committing to tank. But most teams start hemorrhaging money, and then playing .500 ball and selling some tickets becomes more of a priority than developing a young core.