SF Upgrade Targets

[HoopsFanAZ]

Besides the obvious--the Blazers have no PFs--can anybody give me an obvious reason the Blazers aren't playing Grant at SF?
He can shoot from outside, he has switchability, he doesn't rebound. Unless he's 100% dead-set against it, the title of this thread should be Re: PF Upgrade Targets.

Part of the argument that I have read and heard (and with which I agree most) is Grant is best as a PF:
1. Size, wingspan, quicks, hops to defend PFs while switching onto others as well (a player is what he can defend and his strengths aren't as comparatively good with SFs).
2. Same as above but has a competitive advantage against PFs who are less athletic/less quick AND posting up against the shorter PFs.
3. Comparative analysis has been done by some on this board making the positional case for Grant as PF > SF.

His mild allergy to rebounding is a weakness. It's why the centers need to board, the backup PF needs to board, and when Portland gets a GOOD SF one day ... he needs to board. The good that Grant brings outweighs that weakness, IMHO. If Portland can get a stud PF while keeping Grant, then move him to SF and call it good -- for now.

[tester551]

Besides the obvious--the Blazers have no PFs--can anybody give me an obvious reason the Blazers aren't playing Grant at SF?
He can shoot from outside, he has switchability, he doesn't rebound. Unless he's 100% dead-set against it, the title of this thread should be Re: PF Upgrade Targets.

Part of the argument that I have read and heard (and with which I agree most) is Grant is best as a PF:
1. Size, wingspan, quicks, hops to defend PFs while switching onto others as well (a player is what he can defend and his strengths aren't as comparatively good with SFs).
2. Same as above but has a competitive advantage against PFs who are less athletic/less quick AND posting up against the shorter PFs.
3. Comparative analysis has been done by some on this board making the positional case for Grant as PF > SF.

His mild allergy to rebounding is a weakness. It's why the centers need to board, the backup PF needs to board, and when Portland gets a GOOD SF one day ... he needs to board. The good that Grant brings outweighs that weakness, IMHO. If Portland can get a stud PF while keeping Grant, then move him to SF and call it good -- for now.

His 'mild' allergy to rebounding is MUCH more severe than you think.

I don't buy any of the arguments you posted about Grant being a better PF than SF.

So much of basketball is now 'position-less' that its all about finding or creating a matchup advantage.
As a result, Id rather pair Grant up with someone who plays like they are 6-10" & 250lbs versus someone who is 6-6" & 210.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Besides the obvious--the Blazers have no PFs--can anybody give me an obvious reason the Blazers aren't playing Grant at SF?
He can shoot from outside, he has switchability, he doesn't rebound. Unless he's 100% dead-set against it, the title of this thread should be Re: PF Upgrade Targets.

Part of the argument that I have read and heard (and with which I agree most) is Grant is best as a PF:
1. Size, wingspan, quicks, hops to defend PFs while switching onto others as well (a player is what he can defend and his strengths aren't as comparatively good with SFs).
2. Same as above but has a competitive advantage against PFs who are less athletic/less quick AND posting up against the shorter PFs.
3. Comparative analysis has been done by some on this board making the positional case for Grant as PF > SF.
His mild allergy to rebounding is a weakness. It's why the centers need to board, the backup PF needs to board, and when Portland gets a GOOD SF one day ... he needs to board. The good that Grant brings outweighs that weakness, IMHO. If Portland can get a stud PF while keeping Grant, then move him to SF and call it good -- for now.

His 'mild' allergy to rebounding is MUCH more severe than you think.

I don't buy any of the arguments you posted about Grant being a better PF than SF.
So much of basketball is now 'position-less' that its all about finding or creating a matchup advantage.
As a result, Id rather pair Grant up with someone who plays like they are 6-10" & 250lbs versus someone who is 6-6" & 210.

Obviously, I won't try to change your mind on this. A fair case can be made that Grant is the best PF on the team. Obvious, I know.

His rebounding -- as a PF and given his skills and abilities -- sucks. [I was being kind and sarcastic with "mild allergy."] He does play away from the hoop quite a bit at both ends -- lessening the odds of him getting to rebounds ... which doesn't address AT ALL that he doesn't consistently go after every rebound or make sure opponents cannot. A case can be made that the primary responsibility for rebounding has fallen on the centers given the way they played with Nurkic, but one big or even just some players isn't enough. All players should be involved in rebounding, IMHO. It's why Josh Hart stood out so much. Rebounding is a Blazers team problem. I remember when the Blazers were dominant on the boards at both ends.

I, too, want the comparative advantages. If, as I (and others) have said that Grant plays more effectively as a PF than SF is accurate, then getting a dude at PF means accepting somewhat less effective play from Grant at SF. He'd still be better than the other Blazers at SF. If the dude at PF is an upgrade over Grant, cool. Done deal. Get 'er done. If he's not, then the calculation is tougher but may yet be justified. Grant is a combo forward and depending on match-ups and at which end and ... I like him on the Blazers.

If he got to 6 boards a game, most all issues regarding him -- for me -- go away.

[zzaj]

Grant is basically a much higher USG, worse defending but slightly better true shooting Mo Harkless (really, he is. Go look at a stats comparison). I see no reason why Grant can't be a SF...

[m0ng0]

People sh*t on Simons for empty stats yet Grant is the epitome of empty stats yet everybody turns a blind eye on the worthless black hole he is... interesting

[zzaj]

People sh*t on Simons for empty stats yet Grant is the epitome of empty stats yet everybody turns a blind eye on the worthless black hole he is... interesting

Nah, Grant offers something defensively. Simons does not. That's the difference. If Simons was the level of defender at his position that Grant is at his position, it would be a different conversation.

[HoopsFanAZ]

Grant’s length and athleticism should make for a quality — but definitely not elite — 3 & D SF. While I have previously stated my agreement with those who argue he’s better at PF, to heck with it. A 6’8 (6’6.5” no shoes) and long (7’2.75”) SF is a good thing. Someone with about 15-20 more pounds with aggression and a nose for REBs can play PF. I renounce my previous position.

[tester551]

Grant’s length and athleticism should make for a quality — but definitely not elite — 3 & D SF. While I have previously stated my agreement with those who argue he’s better at PF, to heck with it. A 6’8 (6’6.5” no shoes) and long (7’2.75”) SF is a good thing. Someone with about 15-20 more pounds with aggression and a nose for REBs can play PF. I renounce my previous position.

Glad you've seen the light.
Hopefully Billups joins the team soon

[Goldbum]

I would rather start Toumani at the 3 and Grant at the 4 than Walker at 4 and Grant at 3. Toumani does enough PF things to make up for Grant's SF attributes.

[Skybox]

I'd like to get a PF and move Jerami to SF.

Swap the young wounded for long-term fit...
ORL sends Wendell Carter Jr. (who can play 4/5 and be a versatile bull next to Ayton)...pass, shoot, defend, rebound-let Ayton score.
WCJ is young, heady, and on a great contract (maybe the best in the NBA). Ayton is a monster but limited, together , POR goes from bullied to bullies. ORL drastically needs a young backcourt scorer and WCJ may not be a perfect fit next to Paolo and Franz.
ORL sends Markelle Fultz & Gary Harris...Fultz and Harris are expiring, so POR can decide what they want long-term and may want to move Brogdon for a pick or another prospect (or move Fultz or Harris to a contender). Obviously, they also get off of salaries that were a bit much for backups. Between the 3, POR has a versatile mix of guards to back up (or start?) their long-term studs in Scoot & Sharpe. Harris is a no-mistakes, 40% 3 & D SG who won't take over a game, but won't blow one either. Fultz is still very young, athletic and promising but ORL needs shooting and is committed to Jalen Suggs and Anthony Black (who also don't shoot well from range).

POR sends back Simons (you don't need another CJ to Scoot's Dame) and $25m is too much for a backup.
POR sends back R. Williams...nice defensive impact player, limited mins and availability, not a good fit with Ayton and not needed with WCJ playing with Ayton, but also backing up at the 5 when Ayton's out (and Grant slides to 4). Grant is a big 3 and lives his best life again (like he did in DET), freed from the big man dirty work.

Scoot/Fultz (or, for now Fultz/Scoot)
Sharpe/Brogdon/Harris (Sharpe can play some 3, depending on matchups-there will be minutes for Harris)
Grant/Murray/Thybulle
Carter/Grant
Ayton/Carter

[Norm2953]

Ultimately the Blazers would need a big, physical player that can handle the ball to play
alongside of Ayton/Grant.

Skybox is the only Magic poster that keeps pounding the table for Simons and I'm not opposed
to what he suggests here.

[cheesehoff]

Without considering matching money or who to add in the trade as filler, I think trading Ant to one of these 3 teams makes the most sense for both teams.
Orlando-They have good, talented depth at the forward positions. The have backcourt depth too, but none offer the scoring Ant does. They are all good defenders which means Ant's defense can be partially covered depending on who he plays with. Isaac, Okeke, Howard and WCJ.
Brooklyn-Same idea. They have a couple young frontcourt guys with very good potential and no backcourt scorers. Clowney, Wilson, Whitehead, Cam Johnson and Claxton.
Toronto-The team with the trade chips that I like the most and probably needs Ant's scoring the most. I like Achieuwa, Boucher (although he's a little old for our outlook), Koloko Dick and McDaniels
Most of these guys are behind guys that they'll maybe never beat out for their starting spot. That doesn't mean they won't develop into starter level talent.

[Skybox]

Will you guys have cap space to throw at OG? He’s a nice fit, imo

If not, ORL has some for you to borrow

[HoopsFanAZ]

[Bumping this up.]

1. Camara is a legit NBA player at forward. Starting 22 of 31 games where Thybulle is at 12 of 31 shows who’s winning that battle. I like Thybulle off the bench for any team. Camara is more of a pain in the @$$ on D than Thybulle which I wouldn’t say about hardly any rookie. Is Camara the answer long-term? Will he become a quality, starting SF? (in the top half of starters at his position)
It’s early.

2. Ryan Rupert at pick 43 — after some projections in the middle of the 1st round — was strong value. He has a long way to go as a SG/SF project, BUT there’s talent and ability there. Jabari Walker as the 57th pick in his 2nd season is showing his long-term value off the bench. And though I’m more optimistic than most (?) about Kris Murray, I do see the value pick that he was at 22.

3. I’ve come to accept Grant is a 3&D SF playing PF. He’s earning his pay. Along with Brogdon, Matisse, Timelord, and Ant, that’s 5 veterans who could be gone in the ongoing re-build?

While I understand the need to have veterans surrounding youth to show them how to play, practice … well, everything … I look at the youngsters and see a framework. [I liked Reath — a low mileage veteran — in Summer League and was hoping he’d stick.]

Scoot, Sharpe, Camara, Walker, Murray, Rupert, Ayton … I honestly want the Blazers in the lottery for the next 2 years.

[zzaj]

Blazers have been playing Grant at SF a lot the past 10 or so games and (IMO) it’s showed. I still think the Blazers need to play 4 or 5 out with the PF being the corner position (instead of SF) and Walker as PF. He can hit C&S corner 3s, and he’s the best rebounding PF on the team.

[DeBlazerRiddem]

[Bumping this up.]

1. Camara is a legit NBA player at forward. Starting 22 of 31 games where Thybulle is at 12 of 31 shows who’s winning that battle. I like Thybulle off the bench for any team. Camara is more of a pain in the @$$ on D than Thybulle which I wouldn’t say about hardly any rookie. Is Camara the answer long-term? Will he become a quality, starting SF? (in the top half of starters at his position)
It’s early.

I am increasingly all in on Camara. He is not a star I don't think but he can contribute in so many ways that he almost looks like the perfect glue guy type player. He makes such good decisions on and off the ball as a rookie that I think increasing his handling and playmaking duties could be on the table and make him the most similar prospect to Batum that we have had since.

[Pattycakes]

I’m starting the “get Lauri” train. His defense is about non existent but the Blazers should absolutely try to get him to add to our current future assets.

[BlazersBroncos]

Its not really an upgrade but I would be a fan of these moves and think the other teams here are looking to go in this type of directions -

Jerami Grant for Harrison Barnes, 2026 SAC FRP (Top-8 / Top-4 / Top-4 / 2 SRP), 2028 SAC FRP Swap (Top-8 / Top-8 / Top-8 / 2 SRP)

Malcolm Brogdan for Evan Fournier, 2024 DET FRP (Top-12 / Top-10 / Top-8 / 2 SRP), 2025 DET SRP

We retain a vet SF w/ plus locker room vibe in Barnes (Who is cheaper, expires the same time as Ayton and wont demand as many shots as Grant) + get some future picks + clear the G glut.

G - Anfernee Simons / Scoot Henderson
G - Shadeon Sharpe / Anfernee Simons / Evan Fournier
F - Harrison Barnes / Matisse Thybulle / Rayan Rupert
F - Toumari Camara / Jabari Walker JR / Kris Murray
C - DeAndre Ayton / Duop Reath / Ibou Badji

+ 2024 DET FRP (12 / 10 / 8 / 2 SRP)
+ 2025 DET SRP
+ 2026 SAC FRP (8 / 4 / 4 / 2 SRP)

Think those are reasonable. We get picks but nothing too juicy (IE protected) - but I dont think either guy returns a juicy pick. That DET FRP has a chance to not convey but w/ the injury issues Malcolm brings I have a hard time seeing him net a better FRP.

[Dame Lizard]

I’m starting the “get Lauri” train. His defense is about non existent but the Blazers should absolutely try to get him to add to our current future assets.

I disagree. I love Lauri, and think a team like OKC should absolutely go get him, as he can be a #2 option on a championship team imo.

However, for a team like Portland who is so far away from competing it's not funny, I don't think acquiring a player who is entering his prime makes sense. Acquiring him may just push us into treadmill status. Because in all honesty, we'll need a couple of years to determine just whether Shaedon and Scoot are progressing to become all star level talent, or whether they'll plateau and leave us in a mid table state with an All Star in Lauri and plenty of good role players around him.

[Butter]

Blazers have been playing Grant at SF a lot the past 10 or so games and (IMO) it’s showed. I still think the Blazers need to play 4 or 5 out with the PF being the corner position (instead of SF) and Walker as PF. He can hit C&S corner 3s, and he’s the best rebounding PF on the team.

I originally created this thread before Camara emerged. I don't see him becoming an All-Star, 25 pts a night guy, but I think he is already a consistent "glue guy" that winning teams need around their stars.

I'm ready to shift the focus to a PF upgrade. Maybe Walker becomes that over time, but I'd like to see a Buck Williams 2.0 type move.