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Norm2953 wrote:Tie for 3rd place!

Blazers are great at snagging higher lotto odds late. Unfortunately that's about the only thing they're good at these days

I see Banton obliterated the record today for most 3 pointers attempted in a regular season game without a make. 0/15 with previous record being 0/12 by Justin Anderson, Eric Gordon and Brook Lopez

PDXKnight wrote:

Norm2953 wrote:Tie for 3rd place!

Blazers are great at snagging higher lotto odds late. Unfortunately that's about the only thing they're good at these days

If the Blazers weren’t tanking this year and had slightly better injury luck, they were not far off personnel wise from play in territory.

My point, to get out of this season with noticeable growth from Scoot, Kamara and DA, good minutes for Murray, Walker, Reath and Banton who all could very well stick around and to have a good chance at adding a Ron Holland and Knecht (who should be highly nba ready) in a couple months is fortunate in my eyes. My targets at least.

Imagine we don’t tank next year, just added two playable lotto picks, Scoot and Shae hit the ground running, and DA carries over his willingness to hustle and do the dirty work.

Like we’re literally not even far off - this tanking record has really lost some

Pattycakes wrote:

PDXKnight wrote:

Norm2953 wrote:Tie for 3rd place!

Blazers are great at snagging higher lotto odds late. Unfortunately that's about the only thing they're good at these days

If the Blazers weren’t tanking this year and had slightly better injury luck, they were not far off personnel wise from play in territory.

My point, to get out of this season with noticeable growth from Scoot, Kamara and DA, good minutes for Murray, Walker, Reath and Banton who all could very well stick around and to have a good chance at adding a Ron Holland and Knecht (who should be highly nba ready) in a couple months is fortunate in my eyes. My targets at least.

Imagine we don’t tank next year, just added two playable lotto picks, Scoot and Shae hit the ground running, and DA carries over his willingness to hustle and do the dirty work.

Like we’re literally not even far off - this tanking record has really lost some

This is a fair point but my counter is with Chauncey plans might fall off the rails quicker than we'd hope as well

Pattycakes wrote:

PDXKnight wrote:

Norm2953 wrote:Tie for 3rd place!

Blazers are great at snagging higher lotto odds late. Unfortunately that's about the only thing they're good at these days

If the Blazers weren’t tanking this year and had slightly better injury luck, they were not far off personnel wise from play in territory.

My point, to get out of this season with noticeable growth from Scoot, Kamara and DA, good minutes for Murray, Walker, Reath and Banton who all could very well stick around and to have a good chance at adding a Ron Holland and Knecht (who should be highly nba ready) in a couple months is fortunate in my eyes. My targets at least.

Imagine we don’t tank next year, just added two playable lotto picks, Scoot and Shae hit the ground running, and DA carries over his willingness to hustle and do the dirty work.

Like we’re literally not even far off - this tanking record has really lost some

IMO, this team is less than the sum of its apparent parts, though. Scoot is the closest we have to any glue holding it together, and so far he's just a kid who can't run a credible NBA offense. We have all these defensive parts and young, hungry players but never ascended the defensive rating rankings as you would expect of a team learning to play together. Ayton is no anchor at either end. Grant is increasingly JAG. Simons is the team's best player by a good margin, and he has no record of leading a team to consistently win. The coach shows no signs of instilling a culture or squeezing overachievement out of the available talent.

Sorry, but I think this team is every bit as bad as advertised. There is room for growth, but if success depends on major leaps from the young backcourt, I think you're at least a year too early hoping it's next season.

Pattycakes wrote:

PDXKnight wrote:

Norm2953 wrote:Tie for 3rd place!

Blazers are great at snagging higher lotto odds late. Unfortunately that's about the only thing they're good at these days

If the Blazers weren’t tanking this year and had slightly better injury luck, they were not far off personnel wise from play in territory.

My point, to get out of this season with noticeable growth from Scoot, Kamara and DA, good minutes for Murray, Walker, Reath and Banton who all could very well stick around and to have a good chance at adding a Ron Holland and Knecht (who should be highly nba ready) in a couple months is fortunate in my eyes. My targets at least.

Imagine we don’t tank next year, just added two playable lotto picks, Scoot and Shae hit the ground running, and DA carries over his willingness to hustle and do the dirty work.

Like we’re literally not even far off - this tanking record has really lost some

I like your view on the season esp with getting to see growth with some young guys & potential to add more rookies and the vets to next season.

Question:
Have the Blazers management say how they want to do the rebuild? Do they want to tank and rebuild through the draft or draft picks and keep the vets around and keep competing?

Nobody says they want to tank, but that is pretty clearly the direction now. I suspect before the season they hoped that Scoot and Shae would indeed ignite, and the rest of the roster would be complementary, such that the playoffs were a possibility. But this season was instructive, and the team is so bereft of top talent that a deep rebuild is now inevitable.

cdubbz wrote:Is Kris Murray a player you guys like? Is he even a fraction of his brothers skill? Haven't seen him play at all

if he becomes a rotation player, it will be the back end of a rotation

he didn't shoot well from distance in college, and he's shot much worse in the NBA. He seems to have decent BBIQ and works hard on defense. But he seems to lack athleticism. And it's not like he's 19 or 20 years old. He will turn 24 in August so you have to be a little skeptical about much upside he has

Tim Lehrbach wrote:

Pattycakes wrote:

PDXKnight wrote:
Blazers are great at snagging higher lotto odds late. Unfortunately that's about the only thing they're good at these days

If the Blazers weren’t tanking this year and had slightly better injury luck, they were not far off personnel wise from play in territory.

My point, to get out of this season with noticeable growth from Scoot, Kamara and DA, good minutes for Murray, Walker, Reath and Banton who all could very well stick around and to have a good chance at adding a Ron Holland and Knecht (who should be highly nba ready) in a couple months is fortunate in my eyes. My targets at least.

Imagine we don’t tank next year, just added two playable lotto picks, Scoot and Shae hit the ground running, and DA carries over his willingness to hustle and do the dirty work.

Like we’re literally not even far off - this tanking record has really lost some

IMO, this team is less than the sum of its apparent parts, though. Scoot is the closest we have to any glue holding it together, and so far he's just a kid who can't run a credible NBA offense. We have all these defensive parts and young, hungry players but never ascended the defensive rating rankings as you would expect of a team learning to play together. Ayton is no anchor at either end. Grant is increasingly JAG. Simons is the team's best player by a good margin, and he has no record of leading a team to consistently win. The coach shows no signs of instilling a culture or squeezing overachievement out of the available talent.

Sorry, but I think this team is every bit as bad as advertised. There is room for growth, but if success depends on major leaps from the young backcourt, I think you're at least a year too early hoping it's next season.

I'm mostly here as well. I don't think this team is anywhere near contending for even a play-in spot. There was exactly one point this season where Portland was in the top 10 of the conference: when they were 3-3, but then an 8-game losing streak followed and they were squarely among the bottom 5 teams in the league since. This team was never in serious contention for anything other than lottery balls this year. And that's ok! That's what almost everyone expected. But the path to respectability is a long one.

I see a few different paths to get there:

(1) Get a better coach. This is the most obvious answer, I feel. I know that Chauncey has forgotten more about basketball than I will ever learn, but I haven't seen any evidence in three years that he is even a mid-level coach by NBA standards. I don't know who is available that might be better for a young roster, but looking at Houston this year as an example, there are young teams which can and do surprise and compete at a level beyond expectations.

(2) Offload most of the young players for more experienced players. Portland has an abundance of youth and could in principle package some of them for more veteran players. And it in all likelihood would improve the team in the immediate future quite considerably. Through Game 81, Brogdon (31), Reath (27), Thybulle (26), and Ayton (25) are 4 of the 6 guys with positive On/Off stats among the top 11 in minutes played this year, while the 4 with the most negative are Scoot, Walker, Shaedon, and Simons. Add Camara and Murray to the mix as the young core -- would Cronin be willing to deal 3 or more of those guys? I don't know that he would, even if it would likely lead to more wins.

(3) Go young and hope for breakout performances. This strategy has been tried and tested, but many teams seem to remain stuck in a rut of lottery hell. Getting rid of Brogdon and Thybulle (and possibly Reath, Ayton, and Ant) would create a clean slate for the young guys to make it or break it, but there's a real possibility that Portland would remain a bottom-5 team for another 3 years at least. Does the fanbase have the stomach for it?

I don't know what the answer is, but Portland is a long way off from contention and at least one of these strategies would have to be employeed for Portland to get there.

I am in the camp that thinks Simons and Grant should be the guys we move off this summer. I love Brogdan as the swing backup G and mentor to Scoot, and think they fit on the court better than Scoot and Simons.

I also dont see a FRP return for Thybulle and figure with his high character and the fact he doesnt take shots from the kids we might as well keep him around as a tone setter.

Grant is a guy that IMO a team that swings and misses on adding a true '3rd star' will fall back on - I think we can get a nice return for him.

I would also move Reath as we are not trading Ayton IMO (FO has been high on him for some time, he doesnt carry much value and he is at least sorta young) and RWIII is just too costly for any team to trade for w/ his injury risk. Think we might as well get something for Reath and roll w/ a 3rd stringer who is on a rookie deal.

Wizenheimer wrote:

cdubbz wrote:Is Kris Murray a player you guys like? Is he even a fraction of his brothers skill? Haven't seen him play at all

if he becomes a rotation player, it will be the back end of a rotation

he didn't shoot well from distance in college, and he's shot much worse in the NBA. He seems to have decent BBIQ and works hard on defense. But he seems to lack athleticism. And it's not like he's 19 or 20 years old. He will turn 24 in August so you have to be a little skeptical about much upside he has

agree, his shot is simply awful and many of his misses are by miles, gotta fix that and get his 3 pt shooting to at least 34-35% area or he's gone in a yr or two IMO

Wizenheimer wrote:

cdubbz wrote:Is Kris Murray a player you guys like? Is he even a fraction of his brothers skill? Haven't seen him play at all

if he becomes a rotation player, it will be the back end of a rotation

he didn't shoot well from distance in college, and he's shot much worse in the NBA. He seems to have decent BBIQ and works hard on defense. But he seems to lack athleticism. And it's not like he's 19 or 20 years old. He will turn 24 in August so you have to be a little skeptical about much upside he has

I agree with this assessment. Murray doesn't have the future his twin does.

The problem this year overall offensively was the lack of snipers from deep, can't finish well at the rim (Portland was last), and the lack of BBIQ. Some of that can be the youth factor and some you can see won't get much better than that. And that is something you just can't really teach either no matter how good (or bad) the coach is.

BlazersBroncos wrote:I am in the camp that thinks Simons and Grant should be the guys we move off this summer. I love Brogdan as the swing backup G and mentor to Scoot, and think they fit on the court better than Scoot and Simons.

I also dont see a FRP return for Thybulle and figure with his high character and the fact he doesnt take shots from the kids we might as well keep him around as a tone setter.

Grant is a guy that IMO a team that swings and misses on adding a true '3rd star' will fall back on - I think we can get a nice return for him.

I would also move Reath as we are not trading Ayton IMO (FO has been high on him for some time, he doesnt carry much value and he is at least sorta young) and RWIII is just too costly for any team to trade for w/ his injury risk. Think we might as well get something for Reath and roll w/ a 3rd stringer who is on a rookie deal.

agree on movin Ant and Grant as priority, would like to keep Brog as well, Thybulle can stay or go depending on potential return

BlazersBroncos wrote:I am in the camp that thinks Simons and Grant should be the guys we move off this summer. I love Brogdan as the swing backup G and mentor to Scoot, and think they fit on the court better than Scoot and Simons.

I also dont see a FRP return for Thybulle and figure with his high character and the fact he doesnt take shots from the kids we might as well keep him around as a tone setter.

Grant is a guy that IMO a team that swings and misses on adding a true '3rd star' will fall back on - I think we can get a nice return for him.

I would also move Reath as we are not trading Ayton IMO (FO has been high on him for some time, he doesnt carry much value and he is at least sorta young) and RWIII is just too costly for any team to trade for w/ his injury risk. Think we might as well get something for Reath and roll w/ a 3rd stringer who is on a rookie deal.

Trade ideas to get expiring contracts, continue the extreme tank, and see what they have in the young guys.

This trade is for Simmons expiring contract. Nets get 2 starters and Blazers get to tank hard with Simmons and use the '24 picks to hopefully make up those minutes. Malcom Brogdon & Simmons will both expire after next season.
Nets recieve: Robert Williams III & Jerami Grant
Blazers recieve: Ben Simmons

This trade gets Steven Adams who expires after next season. I
Rockets recieve: Thybulle
Blazers recieve: Steven Adams


PG: Scoot / Brogdon
SG: Ant
SF: Sharpe / Ben Simmons
PF: Camara / Murray
C: Ayton / Adams/ Wreath

Looks rough, but tanking aint easy! 2 lottery picks and 2 2nd rounders. Fill the holes & add minimum vets?

cdubbz wrote:Is Kris Murray a player you guys like? Is he even a fraction of his brothers skill? Haven't seen him play at all

His brother is much more of a two-way player. Overall, Kris is pretty much the same guy as Camara with nice role player potential (rebounding, defending, moving the ball, controlling passing lines) but his offensive game is quite depressing.
Anyway, Camara is a more capable shooter at this point which gives him an obvious edge.

cdubbz wrote:Is Kris Murray a player you guys like? Is he even a fraction of his brothers skill? Haven't seen him play at all

I don't see him as an NBA tier player. But it's also his rookie year, and I don't want to rush to judgement. But I got 8 minutes off the bench vibes as his peak, if he reaches his peak. If I was the GM, I would have tried to use that pick to pay off the pick owed to Chicago.

I'm more excited in Rayan Rupert. He has a high ceiling, but unfortunately also a high bust rate. But oh, is he raw! Glad he got some minutes, but that was really a sign that Portland was intentionally tanking.

But realistically, Camara is probably the best of the three. This doesn't mean it can't change. It just means, gun to my head, pick one of these three players - I'd probably go with Camara.

Thanks for the GLB's this season BC, particularly Fiona. Never heard of her, but holy hell brother!!!

I dont see much similarities between Kris and Camara.

Camara has much better functional athleticism and is stronger, his 3PT shot looks better as well.

Kris is not very mobile laterally IMO, his 3PT shot is crap (He has soooo many open corner 3's and they just stinked) and his go-to offensive move is basically barrelling into his defender and shooting a below the rim shot. He tries hard but to me every time I see him play he has this aura of a guy that is like 'holy **** how am I in the NBA right now?'.

It'll be interesting if Murray is included in trade talks involving sending Grant to Sacramento for
Barnes + 13