Will Simon's quietly request a trade?

[Norm2953]

I would think Orlando would trade Paolo before Wagner

That’s insane. You must not watch much Magic.

Most likely neither would be moved unless one of them is a real ******* off the court

[zzaj]

The trade with the Magic would be for Anthony Black and perhaps one of their 2025 FRP.

If the Magic board is to be believed, they have their sights set on Malik Monk. A Simons/Black trade wouldn't go over well with their fanbase.

[BlazersBroncos]

The trade with the Magic would be for Anthony Black and perhaps one of their 2025 FRP.

If the Magic board is to be believed, they have their sights set on Malik Monk. A Simons/Black trade wouldn't go over well with their fanbase.

Fanbases always prefer to get the FA and keep their assets, but in reality thats not always the case.

Also think Monk is in a really good spot to get overpaid - I wouldnt touch him at 25M AV but I can see a team throwing that out there with this crap FA class.

[zzaj]

The trade with the Magic would be for Anthony Black and perhaps one of their 2025 FRP.

If the Magic board is to be believed, they have their sights set on Malik Monk. A Simons/Black trade wouldn't go over well with their fanbase.

Fanbases always prefer to get the FA and keep their assets, but in reality thats not always the case.

Also think Monk is in a really good spot to get overpaid - I wouldnt touch him at 25M AV but I can see a team throwing that out there with this crap FA class.

Totally, yeah. My sense is that there is a pretty wide gulf between how an actual GM views roster construction and how we fans view roster construction.

Agreed about Monk. I think he's found his best role as a player (6th man on a good team), but absolutely don't blame him for wanting to try and maximize his money. Some team will.

[ebott]

Simons (and players like him. Looking at you Tyler Hero) are an interesting case study when it comes to trade value. Seems like a lot of teams have a combo guard that can shoot the lights out. They're happy to sign them for big money off their rookie deals in the hopes that their ball handling or defense or whatever other deficiency they have improves after the brinks truck dumps piles of money on their lawn. But very few of them ever do. After a couple years you realize those guys are just short shooting guards. Nobody wants to trade anything of value for a short shooting guard.

We're basically in the same boat with Simons that we were in with CJ. We kinda got lucky that we were able to trade CJ for Hart but by then we had basically started rebuilding so it didn't matter if a Dame/Hart backcourt might have been great because they had given up on trying to win by that point. This song is called I am sad, so very very sad.

[HoopsFanAZ]

A short, non-D SG (master of the mid range) to go with a regular-sized, limited D, dominant star PG NEEDED serious forwards. Portland had league average forwards (at best) who needed others to create for them. And Simons was ready. CJ out in a last-ditch-too-late attempt by Olshey. Unsustainable.

I like Scoot and Sharpe. I like the bench though it’s not “finished” and lacking reliable snipers. That can wait.

Ant, Grant, Ayton. Ayton most likely to remain.
Malcolm, Thybulle, Time Lord. Time Lord most likely to remain.

FORWARDS who can shoot, D up, create some …


Hey, Orlando. Sorry you lost. Ant looks good for you!

[Nyce_1]

Hey, Orlando. Sorry you lost. Ant looks good for you!

Yo yo....realistically, what are you hoping to receive in a Ant deal? And don't tell me Suggs or Wagner. Ant is a nice player, but a much MUCH worse defender. His negative value on that side of the ball would really affect our identity if he were obtained.

[zzaj]

Hey, Orlando. Sorry you lost. Ant looks good for you!

Yo yo....realistically, what are you hoping to receive in a Ant deal? And don't tell me Suggs or Wagner. Ant is a nice player, but a much MUCH worse defender. His negative value on that side of the ball would really affect our identity if he were obtained.

Many of us here have been hoping for a fairly straight across swap of Ant for Black. It's been unpopular with a few on this board, but seems to be very unpopular on your board.

[Walton1one]

Hey, Orlando. Sorry you lost. Ant looks good for you!

Yo yo....realistically, what are you hoping to receive in a Ant deal? And don't tell me Suggs or Wagner. Ant is a nice player, but a much MUCH worse defender. His negative value on that side of the ball would really affect our identity if he were obtained.

I imagine the $$ part of the deal would revolve around Isaac & Simons, then the question becomes what does ORL add to that.

Assets I could see of interest to POR (aside from the Wagner bros & Suggs):

Anthony Black
Wendall Carter Jr
2025 1st via DEN (likely late 1st, but strong draft)
2025 ORL 1st - Probably the better of ORL 25' picks - POR could ask for better of these 2 picks
2026 1st via PHX\WAS - Though this has so many contingencies on it, I'd rather avoid it

Maybe one of the 2025 2nd rounders, either ORL own or the one via BOS\MEM - POR has one 2nd round pick via ATL in 2025 and it is protected #41-59, so another 2nd could be insurance in case that pick does not convey.

Possibly some value in ORL taking Thybulle back as well as part of the deal.

I like the idea of swapping Thybulle's $$ for Carter Jr, better fit as a b\u big and allows POR to trade the Timelord at the trade deadline next year (just got to keep him healthy until then). So then the deal becomes what is fair value for Simons? a 25' 1st and a 25' 2nd seems a little light and Carter Jr for Thybulle is pretty neutral, even though it does help POR better roster-wise IMO. Maybe a 2nd 1st round pick way down the line 28'/29'/30'?

Isaac & Carter Jr + 25' 1st (POR choice) and a 2025 2nd (POR choice) & ONE of 28/29/30 1st (via ORL) for Simons & Thybulle.

ORL has two 25' firsts and two 25' 2nd's, so they have some assets to deal and still have picks for that draft, and trading away the better of the 2 in each round should not be that big of a difference.

A deal centering around Black is another option, Isaac\Black & a 25' 1st? for Simons & Thybulle maybe?

[tester551]

Isaac & Carter Jr + 25' 1st (POR choice) and a 2025 2nd (POR choice) & ONE of 28/29/30 1st (via ORL) for Simons & Thybulle.

No way Orlando signs up for that. Also, Orlando has enough cap space that they have a lot of flexibility on trades.

I could see WCJ + #19 for Simons.

According to your trade proposal, that would leave
Isaac + future pick + 2nd <=> Thybulle

The valuation is just way off here.



MAYBE Portland could eek out something like this:
WCJ + #19 + worst '25 pick for Simons + Reath + 25 Atl 2nd

In this scenario, I'd route the #19 pick over to Chicago to get Portland's future pick back.

[Walton1one]

EDIT - I Missed the 24' 1st you had from ORL coming back as well, although I don't think POR would want a third 1st round pick in 2024, nor do I see a reason\need to send it to CHI for their pick back which may\may not every convey anyway. They could always address that if the need arises later down the line.

IMO, Isaac has little valuation, FA next year, he is only in there for the salary

WCJ for Thybulle, slight value to ORL? Both have 2yrs left, WCJ two years younger, Thybulle's skillset better for playoff contending team and he has a reasonable salary.

That leaves Simons for what? You are saying he is worth less than 1st round pick? As you have POR throwing a 2nd rounder back to ORL + Reath (give or take him). I don't think Simons has tremendous value but he is at MINIMUM worth a 1st round pick. As for the worst of the TWO 25' picks that ORL has, I mean, DEN pick likely end of 1st, ORL pick likely late teens\early twenties. I think Simons value is worth 10 spots higher in the 25' draft, considering they are giving very little else.

The problem IMO is where else is the value from ORL end? I suggested another 1st rounder way down the road as a possibility. They don't have a lot else to send contractually and according to most, the Wagner bros.\Suggs\\Black are not available. OK, then what?

Cole Anthony, moving to a 3rd team for value? Jett Howard? Neither of those players IMO seem to fit POR needs.

ORL has multiple 2nd rounders in 25'/27'/28'/30'. Would POR have an interest in 2 or 3 of those (most favorable) as an option? I don't know...

25' is supposed to be a strong draft (especially at the top), but we are talking a likely late 1st in that draft, of which ORL has two picks. Can't see that being a huge sticking point for a 20ppg scorer who seems to fit well in an area of need for ORL.

[BlazersBroncos]

I still think looping in OKC makes sense in a Simons to ORL move -

PDX OUT - Simons, Reath or Walker
PDX IN - Dieng, 25 DEN FRP, 25 MIA FRP

ORL OUT - WCJ, 25 DEN FRP
ORL IN - Simons, Reath or Walker

OKC OUT - Dieng, 25 MIA FRP
OKC IN - WCJ

PDX gets 2 FRP and takes a flyer on Dieng (Who I think has potential - just not polished enough to play on a winner like OKC right now). ORL upgrades the G spot w/ a scorer + gets a cheap rotational big to alleviate losing WCJ. OKC gets an ideal scheme fit in WCJ (As they want to play 4-out w/ SGA).

Seems simple and beneficial to all teams IMO.

[tester551]

IMO, Isaac has little valuation, FA next year, he is only in there for the salary

This is where it all falls apart.

You are valuing Isaac based on your perceptions... Completely ignoring how the Magic front office and coaching views Isaac.

Also, he's not needed to be included in the trade. If you don't value him - cut him out of the trade & then it would be much closer.

[JasonStern]

Simons, Ayton, and Grant aren't leaving. Simons and Ayton are still young enough to build around. And Grant, on his current contract, doesn't have the value everyone thinks he has.

One of Thybulle, Timelord, or Brogdon will be moved. But just to ensure we are under the luxury tax. Don't be surprised if it's some unsexy trade for a player and stretch them to remain under the tax line.

[HoopsFanAZ]

The tax for the 2024-25 season is a long way away.
Malcolm can go to a contender (or nearly so) up until the February deadline. After that he’s MBEC.
Thybulle makes sense on a decent to good team who needs a guy for D and occasional 3.
Simons makes sense — again — for a team who is already there or who thinks a step forward in guard scoring from 3 levels is it. His contract and age are selling points, relatively speaking.
Grant is like Simons but also a 2-way player to help “go for it!”

All of these statements — IMHO — are not crazy talk or overvaluing any of them. What the cost to the other teams would be is the thing. And the pool of teams is not huge even though all of these guys work on a lot of teams. It’s about where those teams are right now and the fit to justify a deal.

Would lots of teams want Camara or Walker on their cheap contracts? Of course. But several of the vets are tradable, and frankly, should be (for a better fit) to ensure sucking and moving forward.

[Walton1one]

This is where it all falls apart.

You are valuing Isaac based on your perceptions... Completely ignoring how the Magic front office and coaching views Isaac.

Also, he's not needed to be included in the trade. If you don't value him - cut him out of the trade & then it would be much closer.

Appreciate the opinion, but I can't imagine they value him that greatly, I think that is a huge stretch.

He turns 27 this year and has played over 60 games once in his career, he averaged under 16min a game this year and is being paid $17mil....Career averages of 8pts & 5 boards (averaged 7 & 5 this year), that is not the definition of a critical rotation piece.

That being said, sure the deal could not involve him, these are just ideas.

Could be Simons & Thybulle for WC and Joe Ingles & 25 1st & a couple (2-3?) 2nd round picks, still think that is a little light

[tester551]

This is where it all falls apart.

You are valuing Isaac based on your perceptions... Completely ignoring how the Magic front office and coaching views Isaac.

Also, he's not needed to be included in the trade. If you don't value him - cut him out of the trade & then it would be much closer.

Appreciate the opinion, but I can't imagine they value him that greatly, I think that is a huge stretch.

He turns 27 this year and has played over 60 games once in his career, he averaged under 16min a game this year and is being paid $17mil....Career averages of 8pts & 5 boards (averaged 7 & 5 this year), that is not the definition of a critical rotation piece.

That being said, sure the deal could not involve him, these are just ideas.

Could be Simons & Thybulle for WC and Joe Ingles & 25 1st & a couple (2-3?) 2nd round picks, still think that is a little light

Why are you trying to include Thybulle?

A straight trade of Simons for WCJ and picks works just fine.

[Walton1one]

Thybulle doesn't need to be included in this deal. I do think POR is going to have to move him this offseason though, does not have to be ORL though. They have Sharpe, hopefully staying healthy\needing minutes, Camara, Murray and likely another forward (or 2) coming in this draft as well. All those guys need consistent minutes to see what they have. Thybulle is a luxury for a playoff team, not a need for a rebuilding\young team.

If POR could extract some extra value from ORL, by including him in a deal w\Simons, then they should definitely explore that, and Thybulle could fit in well with ORL.

[HoopsFanAZ]

I’ve recently joined the Simons for Black trade supporters after looking at the Magic more closely. Simons is “win now” and young-ish and Orlando is exactly that after not being good for long enough. Portland can develop Black as a multi-position dude. No rush. His size, D, and versatility make up for probably never being a 20 point guy … AND Simons already is that volume scorer.

[cdubbz]

I’ve recently joined the Simons for Black trade supporters after looking at the Magic more closely. Simons is “win now” and young-ish and Orlando is exactly that after not being good for long enough. Portland can develop Black as a multi-position dude. No rush. His size, D, and versatility make up for probably never being a 20 point guy … AND Simons already is that volume scorer.

I didn’t know Anthony Black is listed at 6’7. Never really knew much about him.

What about Blazers also taking Cole Anthony back as well? Son of former Blazer Greg Anthony. Blazers get a backup PG & ‘point-wing’ in Black plus now they can use their picks to boost roster.