[Game Thread] Portland @ Minnesota

[mojomarc]

-= original quote snipped =-


I think it is consistent to say the ball is not out of bounds until it makes physical contact with something out of bounds. For example, the ball can pass across the courts side or end lines and a player can reach across the line to retrieve it back into play. Or, a player can physically cross the courts side or end lines and deflect the ball back into the play area as long as he or the ball doesn't make contact with something out of bounds before the player jumping out of bounds last touches the ball. Another example is the behind the backboard circus shot that counts if it goes in. If a shooter can shoot the ball from behind the backboard without him or the ball being ruled out of bounds then that is an example of the ball behind the backboard being still in play.

I think you're missing my point--where there is a lack of consistency is that in every other instance when the ball passes directly behind the backboard, it's out of bounds. Your example of a circus shot is not an example of where the ball passes directly behind the backboard, but rather one where it crosses over a corner of the backboard. If you were, say, to be standing along the baseline and tossed the ball directly over the backboard, over the 24 second clock, and it went in, according to the rules the basket would not count and the ball would be turned over for being out of bounds. The key is that the trajectory of the ball starts off from behind the backboard, where the circus shots that have counted do not--they start from somewhere on the court away from the backboard.

[swede]

(picture)

Bahahahahaha...

[Spykes]

Also, once the game started, the home crowd was so hushed and unenthusiastic, presumably punch drunk from the team's 4-26 start, that it stared blankly at the teams on the floor at times, unable to muster more than a murmur. Channing Frye said the lack of energy from the crowd "made it feel like a practice."

Ouch.

I think we can all remember nights like that during the Blazers ill-fated 21 win season.

[Tim Lehrbach]

doesnt Jarret Jack look like Ashley from Fresh Prince of Bel-Air???
look closely.

ROFL

[Tim Lehrbach]

To whomever said this team is definitely much worse than the 2005-2006 Blazers, let's not go too far. That was one of the worst teams in the last ten years of NBA basketball. It doesn't get much worse than that. How many games did Ha start again? Charles Smith? Sergei Monia? The Theo-Przybilla duo?

*shudder*

[mojomarc]

To whomever said this team is definitely much worse than the 2005-2006 Blazers, let's not go too far. That was one of the worst teams in the last ten years of NBA basketball. It doesn't get much worse than that. How many games did Ha start again? Charles Smith? Sergei Monia? The Theo-Przybilla duo?

*shudder*

Let's compare, because I think it's really, really close:

PG:
2005-06 Blazers: Steve Blake/Sebastian Telfair/Jarrett Jack
2007-08 TWolves: Sebastian Telfair/Randy Foye

I'd call that a tie.

SG:
2005-06 Blazers: Juan Dixon/Martell Webster/Charles Smith/Sergei Monya
2007-08 TWolves: Marko Jaric/Rashard McCants/Gerald Green

Boy, I don't know. I know you hate Dixon, but he actually scored more than Jaric and McCants. Certainly in the future I expect more from the Wolves combo than the Blazers 2005-06 combo, but that's only because Martell is the only one of the four I expect to contribute anything meaningful to the league from that Blazers foursome.

SF:
2005-06 Blazers: Darius Miles/Ruben Patterson/Vashon Lenard/Viktor Khryapa
2007-08 TWolves: Ryan Gomes/Corey Brewer/Greg Buckner

For pure talent (not dealing with off-court issues or image), Portland's combo would eat the Wolves combo for lunch. Clear Portland advantage in terms of experience, scoring and defense.

PF:
2005-06 Blazers: Zach Randolph/Brian Skinner/Travis Outlaw
2007-08 TWolves: Al Jefferson/Craig Smith/Antoine Walker/Mark Madsen

Randolph and Jefferson pretty much cancel each other out, and Skinner/Walker cancel each other out. At that point in his career, Outlaw was still out in the weeds, so I'll give a slight advantage to the Wolves for Craig Smith. With his bulk, though, it's perplexing that he has such a low rebounding rate.

C:
2005-06 Blazers: Joel Przybilla/Theo Ratliff/Ha Seung-Jin
2007-08 TWolves: Michael Doleac/Theo Ratliff/Chris Richard

Przybilla played 24 minutes per game and was still 7th in the league in block per. Despite your denegration, center was actually considered a strength of that team by most of us at the time (given how crappy we were in the backcourt, perhaps it was comparative). 2005-06 was also the season where Joel put up several monster games like the 17/15/6 blocks he contributed at Washington, where he put up 3 or more blocks in half the games he played in, and put up 5 or more in more than 10% of his games (including tying Walton for the all-time Blazers single game block mark of 9 against the Sonics). Also, I'd rather have a Theo that can play some games than this years version who will be lucky to play 25 games this year with his knee surgery. Big Portland advantage here, which explains why the Wolves play Jefferson at C so much. Of course, if we move Jefferson to C, then the Wolves have a big advantage, but Zach's advantage over what they would have left at PF would then be huge, so I'll leave the depth chart like it is.

So Portland has a clear advantage at SF and C, and the rest kind of balance out. On the whole, I think it's fair to say that this year's TWolves are worse than we were in 2005-06, at least from a contemporary talent comparison. From a chemistry perspective, that Portland team was totally disfunctional, so maybe that closes the gap and gives Minny the edge, but with your comments on starting lineups (by the way--Smith only started four games, as did Ha. Brian Skinner started more games, and he only got a third of a season with us, so even though it is inexcuseable to have those guys starting, it's not like their "era" was a major part of the season. Monya, on the other hand, inexplicably got 15 starts for reasons beyond me now) I'm guessing that's not what you were judging on.

[Tim Lehrbach]

I wasn't insulting Theo or Joel, just laughing at the fact that they started together in Portland's frontcourt for part of that season. (Just checked, and it was only one game.) And Viktor started 53 games! Telfair 30! Dixon 42! And that was the year I invested in NBA League Pass so I could watch the Blazers while living in San Francisco? And watch I did. Every. Painful. Game.

I agree it's a close call between the 2008 Wolves and the 2006 Blazers. I don't think your position-by-position comparison is fair, exactly, but it's interesting seeing just how little the two rosters had/have going for them. Relative to rest of the league, the Wolves are almost an exact match for the "success" of the Blazers from 2006.

Offense
Points/100 poss: POR 100.3 (30th in NBA), MIN 101.1 (29th)
eFG%: POR .474 (26th), MIN .467 (27th)
Turnovers: POR .162/poss (24th), MIN .172/poss (23rd)
Offensive rebound%: POR .266 (18th), MIN .290 (7th)
FTM/FGA: POR .214 (28th), MIN .177 (30th)

Defense
Points/100 poss: POR 112.8 (29th), MIN 112.5 (29th)
eFG%: POR .507 (25th), MIN .504 (26th)
Turnovers: POR .144 (27th), MIN .149 (25th)
Defensive rebound%: POR .682 (30th), MIN .732 (16th)
FTM/FGA: POR .231 (7th), MIN .278 (27th)

Both clubs are utterly inept in almost every way. The Wolves ride Al Jefferson to being one of the league's better rebounding clubs, but that's literally all they've got. The Blazers, uh, did a pretty good job keeping opponents off the free throw line... ? Like I said, it was a long season.

The 2005-2007 Blazers had an expected record (based on point differential) of 16-66. The Wolves presently have an expected winning percentage of .182, which translates to an expected record of 15-67. Again, the teams come out just about even. The Blazers managed to play five games better than their point differential indicates they should have. So far the Pups aren't even matching their dismal point differential. They "should" have 5 or 6 wins right now but have only 4.