Jarrett Jack revisited

Post #1 » by **PhilipNelsonFan** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:05 am

Once we're all done carefully pleasuring Brandon Roy for his performance, I think we need to take a closer look at our favorite whipping boy.

In about 35 minutes, Jack managed to score 17 points, accumulated 5 assists and grab 4 rebounds. He was 7-13 from the floor (2-4 3PT) and made his only free throw.

That said, it was he--not necessarily Roy--who won the game for us. You heard me right. That late 3-pointer. The three-point play on the fastbreak. Solid play taking the ball up in the half-court set. Good defense on Ben Gordon (not so much on Joe Smith) when the game mattered the most. And it's not like this is the first time he's done this...in that 13-game win streak, Jack was a major contributor in at least two of those wins in that we would not have won had he not played.

We're quick to dismiss Jack as energy off the bench, but he's showing signs that he's taken in coaching and can apply it to a game situation. He is more than energy though; he's becoming a decent half-court PG, an active defender (even though he doesn't always play very well on this end) and a vocal leader of this team.

It's almost a foregone conclusion that he will be traded in the off-season but he has contributed quite a lot to this team. We need to recognize and reevaluate our stances on him somewhat IMO.

Post #2 » by **Spykes** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:11 am

Ya, that 3pt play of late in double OT is really what broke the back of the Bulls.

He was fantastic tonight.

I do think Jack means a lot more to this team than a lot of us (including myself) want to admit. The team would definitely be worse off if we used him as bait to move Miles' contract during the season and didn't get a player of his caliber in return.

taufblazers33 · Post #3 » by **taufblazers33** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:14 am

jarret jack plays better defense than Sergio, that's why i think Sergio should leave and Jack should stay

Post #4 » by **mojomarc** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:25 am

taufblazers33 wrote:jarret jack plays better defense than Sergio, that's why i think Sergio should leave and Jack should stay

By "better" do you really mean "the same or worse"? I'm only asking because that would be far more accurate. After all, the guy he was guarding most of the night only went 15-27 from the field.

The reason Sergio isn't playing isn't that his defense is worse, but rather that Nate can't stand watching him play "out of control." To me, that's like saying Steve Nash wouldn't get off the bench with Nate as a coach, but there's probably some truth in it. Nate really seems to hate seeing PGs really play with an edge to their games.

kellex · Post #5 » by **kellex** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:29 am

never thought i'd say this, but i think i'd rather have jack right now that sergio. sergio is showing his complete immaturity. i'm sure one day he will either light up the league or just become the next jason williams...hopefully not the latter.

taufblazers33 · Post #6 » by **taufblazers33** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:36 am

kellex wrote:never thought i'd say this, but i think i'd rather have jack right now that sergio. sergio is showing his complete immaturity. i'm sure one day he will either light up the league or just become the next jason williams...hopefully not the latter.

exactly!

sergio isnt a true nba point guard. yes, he makes plays and sees the open court, but he makes too many mistakes coaches cant stand (Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West, Jayson Williams)

ive said this before and im gonna stick to it, i would rather have Jarret Jack than Sergio

Post #7 » by **PhilipNelsonFan** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:37 am

I honestly find it a little incredulous that people prefer Jack over Sergio. Sergio's ceiling is a couple miles above Jack's and he's already shown quite a few flashes of the talent that'll get him there (Minnesota performance).

That said, Jack has played well in a couple big games and should be recognized for doing so, even if Nate gives him more minutes than he probably deserves.

Post #8 » by **PhilipNelsonFan** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:38 am

taufblazers33 wrote:sergio isnt a true nba point guard. yes, he makes plays and sees the open court, but he makes too many mistakes coaches cant stand (Sebastian Telfair, Delonte West, Jayson Williams)

What?

Sergio is just in need of some discipline, and that's what Nate is distilling in him. I truly believe Sergio can grow this year, but I would play him more regardless.

Post #9 » by **mojomarc** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:43 am

PhilipNelsonFan wrote:I honestly find it a little incredulous that people prefer Sergio over Jack. Sergio's ceiling is a couple miles above Jack's and he's already shown quite a few flashes of the talent that'll get him there (Minnesota performance).

That said, Jack has played well in a couple big games and should be recognized for doing so, even if Nate gives him more minutes than he probably deserves.

I'm guessing by the rest of your statement that you got the names reversed there. If so, I agree completely. Jack is a fairly limited player. He really doesn't play any defense to speak of (sorry, Tauf, but we've covered that territory for the last three years and Jack is a weak defender at best), he struggles greatly in the open court, and he is a streaky shooter. He had a good game tonight, and has had a few good ones together. He hasn't, though, done anything like what Sergio did against Minnesota, almost single-handedly changing the game and permanently tilting it in our favor in a short period of time.

The problem as I see it is that Nate is a bit of a control freak when it comes to PGs, and Sergio still is learning how to play within himself without compromising the things that make him such an exciting player. Once he figures that out, he's worth 10 Jarrett Jacks to this team.

NBAMAN2006 · Post #10 » by **NBAMAN2006** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:56 am

Jack is a nice player, and I am the first to admit I underrate him. But, he is a very flawed guy, especially on this team. He absolutley needs the ball to be effective. He passes up on open shots far too often, instead dribbling around aimlessley. He has never run a fast break in over 2 years as a Blazer. His defense is atrocious 95% of the time. Still, he can score in a flury and when that flurry last, he can win us games.

I am still willing to deal him to move Miles, mostly because we have a similar, potentially more rounded, player coming over next season in Rudy.

He still is expendable to me because we have the best player not in the NBA coming over next season.

Post #11 » by **PhilipNelsonFan** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 6:57 am

mojomarc wrote:I'm guessing by the rest of your statement that you got the names reversed there. If so, I agree completely. Jack is a fairly limited player. He really doesn't play any defense to speak of (sorry, Tauf, but we've covered that territory for the last three years and Jack is a weak defender at best), he struggles greatly in the open court, and he is a streaky shooter. He had a good game tonight, and has had a few good ones together. He hasn't, though, done anything like what Sergio did against Minnesota, almost single-handedly changing the game and permanently tilting it in our favor in a short period of time.

The problem as I see it is that Nate is a bit of a control freak when it comes to PGs, and Sergio still is learning how to play within himself without compromising the things that make him such an exciting player. Once he figures that out, he's worth 10 Jarrett Jacks to this team.

I didn't catch myself until I posted that. It's fixed now.

The biggest black mark I have on Jack is not his defense (which I think constitutes "average/below-average" NBA defense...it's that he's horribly inefficient in-game. He doesn't know when to shoot, when to drive, or when he needs to create some offense for his teammates. It's not just fastbreaking; it's in a half-court set as well.

The best way to describe Jarrett Jack is "toolsy"...he has a lot of good attributes but he rarely puts even some of them together to produce a good game. Against the Bulls, he managed to, but not until crunch time.

Fitz303 · Post #12 » by **Fitz303** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:35 am

Jack actually played very good defense on Ben Gordon for the most part tonight.. BG just made some VERY tough shots.. Ive been one of the biggest Jack supporters through the last few years, and although I still believe that he will be traded and I think it will be for the better (Im not sure he can accept his role on this team over a longer period of time), Im really happy hes doing well lately.

PDXKnight · Post #13 » by **PDXKnight** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 7:57 am

Jack had 1 good night but so far this season, he's been fairly inconsistent to say the least. His defense is far from lockdown and at some points has been non-existant on defense.
That said, he's shown flashes and I believe that he has the potential to become a decent defender and develop a more consistent offensive game. I wouldn't be opposed to trading him if the right deal came along and would still use him as bait for a Miles trade but definitely am happy to have him on the Blazers for now.

Yadadimean · Post #14 » by **Yadadimean** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 8:06 am

JARRETT JACK!!! One of these days I'll sell you guys on him but for right now I'm going to point out what I don't like about Sergio, partly because its just how I feel and partly just to play devil's advocate (GO DEVIL!! lol)

Damn near every time Sergio is on the floor I get a little nervous because he is quite possibly the most "hit or miss" players I've ever seen play. He's either on top of his game, setting guys up and crankin out assists in a hurry or he's passing to guys who aren't there, dribbling too much, trying to be too flashy and throwing up flat air balls. Nate is absolutely right not to give him extended minutes.

edit: and Sergio guys are insane to bring up weak defense...

blazersmaniac8 · Post #15 » by **blazersmaniac8** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:31 am

No way I take jack over sergio, that is riddiculous but Jack is providing energy and vocal leadership on the floor which is nice to see.

Yadadimean · Post #16 » by **Yadadimean** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 11:43 am

Shall we make a list of things that Jack is better than Sergio at and then compare it with a list of things that Sergio is better than Jack at?

Post #17 » by **BlackMamba** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 3:38 pm

i've always supported jack, i really don't know why he has been crucified as much as he has.

many have stated for the last 2 years that he is more of a SG than a PG.

so, i think nate has found him the perfect spot, and he along outlaw and jones have been the force of the bench.

sure, he has trouble handeling the ball and being the blazers distribuiter, but he is aggressive. of the games i've seen he is the only one that penetrates no matter who is in the paint.

plus, he's made key shots in some games.

Post #18 » by **Billy** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 3:50 pm

Jack was big tonight, and he's been big in the past. Fact is though he's not long for this team I don't think. Blake's the better point guard, Sergio's the potential, and Rudy sounds like the better option at combo guard next year.

I like Jack, and if there was a way to keep him long term I wouldn't be opposed to it. But I just don't see that as a realistic option.

Wizenheimer · Post #19 » by **Wizenheimer** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:13 pm

Billy wrote:Jack was big tonight, and he's been big in the past. Fact is though he's not long for this team I don't think. Blake's the better point guard, Sergio's the potential, and Rudy sounds like the better option at combo guard next year.

I like Jack, and if there was a way to keep him long term I wouldn't be opposed to it. But I just don't see that as a realistic option.

I've made a point about webster that also applies to Jack: his rookie scale contract increases the odds he'll be traded before the feb. 2008 deadline. Otherwise his cap-hold will be over 6 million dollars going into the 2009 off-season.

I suppose it's possible KP would extend his contract if Jack was willing to sign for 2 million or so a year, but I don't think that's likely. I also doubt that KP just wants to renounce the rights to Jack without any return.

But it's also possible that KP & Tom Penn might have some ideas on this they haven't shared with me yet.

One thing about Fernandez > Jack: it almost seems to be a rule that euro-players need at least a season to adjust to the NBA. Cutting Jack loose before the Blazers are certain Rudy is athe real deal and ready to contribute might not be wise.

waverider · Post #20 » by **waverider** » Fri Jan 4, 2008 4:27 pm

Its kinda funny when I read the Sergio posts. I think the past several weeks is has played way more controlled than he ever has - becoming more like Nate wants, and yet some here don't see that? Weird.

Sergio has shown more energy/desire on D, he still not a good defender by any means but he has improved. Where he is really hurting IMO is his outside shooting, and that needs a LOT of improvement. But IMO he has made significant progress towards what Nate wants as far as playing more controlled.