Moderators: codydaze, KF10, City of Trees
City of Trees wrote:Fun stat of the night: Davion had a team high 11 shots. Made 2
If you can't shoot threes as a guard it's really hard to get the trust from coaches and to see the amount of minutes to really make a difference. He's essentially our version of GP2 (without the threes lol) which is pathetic given where he was drafted. 
City of Trees wrote:If there was any doubt left about who's team this is those questions were answered last night. Kings go as far as Fox can carry them. I know we all jumped on Domas yesterday and rightfully so, for me last night's game put things into perspective - Domas' ceiling is being Fox's Robin, but Domas could never fill Batman's shoes. Domas and Fox complement each other well so it's not like Domas sucks now - he's an elite role player, not a #2. Not until he can score from at least two levels.
LightTheBeam wrote:The 2 changes I would make when Fox and Lyles come back
Mitchell out of the rotation for Colby.
Duarte starting for Huerter
Lyles starting for Barnes
Fox - Duarte - Murray - Lyles - Sabonis
Colby - Monk - Huerter - Barnes - Mcgee
Reality is that Duarte is equally streaky as Huerter, but he's a far superior defender. Lyles is a better fit with the starters than Barnes, he likes to run the court and spot up for 3s. He also adds size and defense over Barnes. Starting lineup should feature Fox, Murray, Sabonis and defender/shooters.
Then in that second unit you have 4 guys who like to score and are more capable with ball in their hands. This takes some of the pressure off Monk. He can run pnr with Mcgee, but we also have Huerter spotting up on those Monk drives, and Barnes capable of drawing a foul when times get tough. But put Barnes/Huerter against opposing benches and suddenly they look much better.
This is my start. If this doesn't get the juices flowing, I'm looking for an early trade. West is too competitive, teams could fall out of playoffs by Xmas if they go on big losing streaks.
OxAndFox wrote:BoogieTime wrote:OxAndFox wrote:
Those guys are positive contracts though. It's not 2019. They are barely taking anything of the cap. I mean someone like Rui is right between Barnes and Huerter and it's not even close to knowing who the worst of those 3 are. You're looking at guys like Dort and Bogdan that are just under them in a couple of years. Just above these guys are Duncan Robinson, Powell and Deandre Hunter. Barnes and Huerter and both on bargain contracts.
Have a look at what Houston paid just to get vet leadership. FVV is taking up 24.1% of their cap in 3 YEARS' time.
% Of Cap in years remaining for the 3 guys you mentioned.
Barnes 11.53%/10.10%/9.45%
Huerter 10.63%/9.44%/8.95%
Davion 3.44%/3.62%
Keegan isn't a problem either, he is what he is, a 2nd year player. But what I will say is a lot of Kings fans and media keep parroting that they can't afford for a project or young player at the end of the roster, yet they have said not 1 thing about Keegan needing to go for a more win now player. I'm not saying I advocate for it, but right at this point in time, if you don't believe the Kings can afford to develop a young player at the end of the bench then you should be in a camp of trading Keegan for someone to fit a win now time.
Well, if they aren’t negative no one is chomping at the bit to give up serious value for them (as can be seen on the trades/transactions board when they are brought up). Huerter has had a bad last half of last year/playoffs and start to this year and Barnes is aging mediocrity who is paid quite fairly for his services now
Only Murray and picks are enticing to anyone
I agree no one is chomping at the bit on the T&T board for them, but it's the T&T board, not an NBA FO. If you're not a star or under 22 everyone is crap over there.
The Kings paid a 1st for Kevin Huerter. Since then he is coming off a career year, is just 25, and is paid 3/50m. If he was a FA in the off season he would have made a hell of a lot more so to me he is on a bargain contract. When a FO is scouting the potential of adding Huerter they would notice his playmaking skills as an upgrade to his previous skills when in Atlanta. The start to the season hasn't been great for him, along with others, but no one values people on a 6-game sample size. In March he averaged 18ppg so it was basically a flat spot in February and then April.
Barnes is who he is. A vet player who is one of the better pro's in the game. I mentioned after last season Barnes needs to come off the bench. Brown needs to tell him if he isn't scoring and doing the little things on the offensive end, his D will never keep him in the starting line-up. Lyles or Sasha should come into the starting 5 for balance.
Pace is the thing that has hurt some other guys, no getting out on fast breaks for open 3s and a slower pace means fewer shots for everyone, and whether its Huerter being too far out and shooting over a hand, Keegan shooting off-balance 3s, Domas clanking everything not a lay up, Barnes forgetting he is allowed to shoot, Sasha shooting with pressure on, Duarte thinking he is a mid range maestro and forget about it with Davion. The offense is putrid and it has to do with pace. The guys can't get out and run after "working" so hard on D.
The only thing I'm really disappointed with Huerter is the same thing I am with pretty much every other player on the squad not named Fox. They knew defense was going to be a focus and they didn't have the legs for it late last season, but what do you know, everyone apart from Fox has come back with the same or weaker fitness levels.
BoogieTime wrote:OxAndFox wrote:BoogieTime wrote:
Well, if they aren’t negative no one is chomping at the bit to give up serious value for them (as can be seen on the trades/transactions board when they are brought up). Huerter has had a bad last half of last year/playoffs and start to this year and Barnes is aging mediocrity who is paid quite fairly for his services now
Only Murray and picks are enticing to anyone
I agree no one is chomping at the bit on the T&T board for them, but it's the T&T board, not an NBA FO. If you're not a star or under 22 everyone is crap over there.
The Kings paid a 1st for Kevin Huerter. Since then he is coming off a career year, is just 25, and is paid 3/50m. If he was a FA in the off season he would have made a hell of a lot more so to me he is on a bargain contract. When a FO is scouting the potential of adding Huerter they would notice his playmaking skills as an upgrade to his previous skills when in Atlanta. The start to the season hasn't been great for him, along with others, but no one values people on a 6-game sample size. In March he averaged 18ppg so it was basically a flat spot in February and then April.
Barnes is who he is. A vet player who is one of the better pro's in the game. I mentioned after last season Barnes needs to come off the bench. Brown needs to tell him if he isn't scoring and doing the little things on the offensive end, his D will never keep him in the starting line-up. Lyles or Sasha should come into the starting 5 for balance.
Pace is the thing that has hurt some other guys, no getting out on fast breaks for open 3s and a slower pace means fewer shots for everyone, and whether its Huerter being too far out and shooting over a hand, Keegan shooting off-balance 3s, Domas clanking everything not a lay up, Barnes forgetting he is allowed to shoot, Sasha shooting with pressure on, Duarte thinking he is a mid range maestro and forget about it with Davion. The offense is putrid and it has to do with pace. The guys can't get out and run after "working" so hard on D.
The only thing I'm really disappointed with Huerter is the same thing I am with pretty much every other player on the squad not named Fox. They knew defense was going to be a focus and they didn't have the legs for it late last season, but what do you know, everyone apart from Fox has come back with the same or weaker fitness levels.
The t/t board are a random assortment of impartial fans. Who thinks they have strong value? Kings fans on twitter and in the media? If we made a poll on the t/t board on whether a package of Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell was positive/negative/neutral it would probably get a lot of neutral votes with a sprinkling of good and bad
We paid a protected first for Huerter, and if things stopped in feb/March that would be good value. Now we are moving him off bad play over the last stretch if he doesn’t strongly come around. One of the “better pros in the league” doesn’t entice oncourt value
It’s Murray and the picks that we have to make moves IMO
OxAndFox wrote:BoogieTime wrote:OxAndFox wrote:
I agree no one is chomping at the bit on the T&T board for them, but it's the T&T board, not an NBA FO. If you're not a star or under 22 everyone is crap over there.
The Kings paid a 1st for Kevin Huerter. Since then he is coming off a career year, is just 25, and is paid 3/50m. If he was a FA in the off season he would have made a hell of a lot more so to me he is on a bargain contract. When a FO is scouting the potential of adding Huerter they would notice his playmaking skills as an upgrade to his previous skills when in Atlanta. The start to the season hasn't been great for him, along with others, but no one values people on a 6-game sample size. In March he averaged 18ppg so it was basically a flat spot in February and then April.
Barnes is who he is. A vet player who is one of the better pro's in the game. I mentioned after last season Barnes needs to come off the bench. Brown needs to tell him if he isn't scoring and doing the little things on the offensive end, his D will never keep him in the starting line-up. Lyles or Sasha should come into the starting 5 for balance.
Pace is the thing that has hurt some other guys, no getting out on fast breaks for open 3s and a slower pace means fewer shots for everyone, and whether its Huerter being too far out and shooting over a hand, Keegan shooting off-balance 3s, Domas clanking everything not a lay up, Barnes forgetting he is allowed to shoot, Sasha shooting with pressure on, Duarte thinking he is a mid range maestro and forget about it with Davion. The offense is putrid and it has to do with pace. The guys can't get out and run after "working" so hard on D.
The only thing I'm really disappointed with Huerter is the same thing I am with pretty much every other player on the squad not named Fox. They knew defense was going to be a focus and they didn't have the legs for it late last season, but what do you know, everyone apart from Fox has come back with the same or weaker fitness levels.
The t/t board are a random assortment of impartial fans. Who thinks they have strong value? Kings fans on twitter and in the media? If we made a poll on the t/t board on whether a package of Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell was positive/negative/neutral it would probably get a lot of neutral votes with a sprinkling of good and bad
We paid a protected first for Huerter, and if things stopped in feb/March that would be good value. Now we are moving him off bad play over the last stretch if he doesn’t strongly come around. One of the “better pros in the league” doesn’t entice oncourt value
It’s Murray and the picks that we have to make moves IMO
Again, GMs don't overeact to bad stretches, whether it's wanting a player or their own player. Otherwise there would be 10 trades every week. They know the framework of what a player is worth.
If we go by how you are valuing players Barnes with his 33 point game was all of a sudden a star after the first game and now he is negative value after some under performing games. It doesn't swing like that.
No one is suggesting these guys (Barnes/Huerter) are worth all stars. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that, however they have value to the right team, whether individually or collectively with other assets.
Keegan won't be traded along with picks unless a sure fire superstar is coming back. Not a star, a superstar. You should realise just how much the franchise values him by now.
BoogieTime wrote:OxAndFox wrote:BoogieTime wrote:
The t/t board are a random assortment of impartial fans. Who thinks they have strong value? Kings fans on twitter and in the media? If we made a poll on the t/t board on whether a package of Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell was positive/negative/neutral it would probably get a lot of neutral votes with a sprinkling of good and bad
We paid a protected first for Huerter, and if things stopped in feb/March that would be good value. Now we are moving him off bad play over the last stretch if he doesn’t strongly come around. One of the “better pros in the league” doesn’t entice oncourt value
It’s Murray and the picks that we have to make moves IMO
Again, GMs don't overeact to bad stretches, whether it's wanting a player or their own player. Otherwise there would be 10 trades every week. They know the framework of what a player is worth.
If we go by how you are valuing players Barnes with his 33 point game was all of a sudden a star after the first game and now he is negative value after some under performing games. It doesn't swing like that.
No one is suggesting these guys (Barnes/Huerter) are worth all stars. I don't think anyone has ever suggested that, however they have value to the right team, whether individually or collectively with other assets.
Keegan won't be traded along with picks unless a sure fire superstar is coming back. Not a star, a superstar. You should realise just how much the franchise values him by now.
I don’t know it and you certainly don’t either (I don’t even k is what your talking about as all teams publically back practically all their players) . If you mean the Beal thing, yeah he’s older/overpaid and you didn’t get a 2nd year Keegan glimpse
But now is the time with him to move him at a high while he still has that luster, if you want. You don’t sit on assets until they lose value a la Mitchell. I’m questioning his fortitude at this point, that’s innate.
And yeah I think recency bias is natural to humans and probably GMs (subpar last year ending, horrible playoffs/preseason/start)
OxAndFox wrote:Or maybe you would like to reference the CBS article regarding a Beal to Sacramento trade.
Bradley Beal may be a former All-Star, but his trade market as the Washington Wizards enter a rebuild has been surprisingly tepid.
On paper, Sacramento makes very little sense as a destination for Beal. The Kings just had the most efficient regular-season offense in NBA history. Their offense is built around All-Star point guard De'Aaron Fox and features two young shooting guards in Kevin Huerter and Malik Monk that are coming off of great years.
Even if no deal is consummated, this is the sort of leak that serves both teams. The Wizards need to send a message to the rest of the league that they are getting significant interest for Beal, and the Kings, after snapping a 17-year playoff drought last season, want the basketball world to see Sacramento as a destination. Form that perspective, Beal talks have already benefitted both sides even if no deal materializes.
BoogieTime wrote:OxAndFox wrote:Or maybe you would like to reference the CBS article regarding a Beal to Sacramento trade.
Bradley Beal may be a former All-Star, but his trade market as the Washington Wizards enter a rebuild has been surprisingly tepid.
On paper, Sacramento makes very little sense as a destination for Beal. The Kings just had the most efficient regular-season offense in NBA history. Their offense is built around All-Star point guard De'Aaron Fox and features two young shooting guards in Kevin Huerter and Malik Monk that are coming off of great years.
Even if no deal is consummated, this is the sort of leak that serves both teams. The Wizards need to send a message to the rest of the league that they are getting significant interest for Beal, and the Kings, after snapping a 17-year playoff drought last season, want the basketball world to see Sacramento as a destination. Form that perspective, Beal talks have already benefitted both sides even if no deal materializes.
What are you talking about? I’m saying there were reports the Kings didn’t want to offer Keegan (Aldridge particularly said it was THE cross point).
It’s fine the Kings didn’t want to offer Keegan for Beal’s age/injury history/contract. We can see already that would be a bust. Doesn’t mean he’s untouchable to the FO after his start here
OxAndFox wrote:BoogieTime wrote:OxAndFox wrote:Or maybe you would like to reference the CBS article regarding a Beal to Sacramento trade.
Bradley Beal may be a former All-Star, but his trade market as the Washington Wizards enter a rebuild has been surprisingly tepid.
On paper, Sacramento makes very little sense as a destination for Beal. The Kings just had the most efficient regular-season offense in NBA history. Their offense is built around All-Star point guard De'Aaron Fox and features two young shooting guards in Kevin Huerter and Malik Monk that are coming off of great years.
Even if no deal is consummated, this is the sort of leak that serves both teams. The Wizards need to send a message to the rest of the league that they are getting significant interest for Beal, and the Kings, after snapping a 17-year playoff drought last season, want the basketball world to see Sacramento as a destination. Form that perspective, Beal talks have already benefitted both sides even if no deal materializes.
What are you talking about? I’m saying there were reports the Kings didn’t want to offer Keegan (Aldridge particularly said it was THE cross point).
It’s fine the Kings didn’t want to offer Keegan for Beal’s age/injury history/contract. We can see already that would be a bust. Doesn’t mean he’s untouchable to the FO after his start here
The thing is everyone knows Keegan would never have come up in trade discussions, particularly for Beal. That's like saying any one of the top 5 guys from last year's draft would NEVER be offered for a player like Beal. Actually, I would go to the top 7 and potentially it's their own 10th pick with Davis that would be the first player. It's obvious. It doesn't even need to be said.
In the 2021 NBA draft no one is trading their player for Beal until the Kings with the 9th pick and Davion.
This isn't just a Keegan thing.
But...for some reason, you keep mentioning Keegan and its like a fact he was offered or something. Or that the Kings would have needed to offer him to get Beal. It's weird.
OxAndFox wrote:Look Boogie, Huerter, and Barnes have been truly awful to start the season.
Last 5 Games
Barnes
10.8/2/1 in 30.8mpg
15/35 - 0.428 FG
8/21 - 0.380 3P
10/15 - 0.666 FT
+/- (-51)
Huerter
8/5/2.6 in 24.2mpg
15/46 - 0.326 FG
7/28 - 0.250 3P
3/5 - 0.600 FT
+/- (-28)
But why doesn't Domas escape your overreactions? He had a poor PO series last year. He has had a poor start to the season. By your own measurements, the Kings wouldn't be able to trade Domas and he is one of the worst contracts in the NBA.
Last 5 Games
Sabonis
14.6/13.4/5.8 in 33.6mpg
28/53 - 0.528 FG
1/6 - 0.166 3P
16/28 - 0.571 FT
+/- (-58)
OxAndFox wrote:Look Boogie, Huerter, and Barnes have been truly awful to start the season.
Last 5 Games
Barnes
10.8/2/1 in 30.8mpg
15/35 - 0.428 FG
8/21 - 0.380 3P
10/15 - 0.666 FT
+/- (-51)
Huerter
8/5/2.6 in 24.2mpg
15/46 - 0.326 FG
7/28 - 0.250 3P
3/5 - 0.600 FT
+/- (-28)
But why doesn't Domas escape your overreactions? He had a poor PO series last year. He has had a poor start to the season. By your own measurements, the Kings wouldn't be able to trade Domas and he is one of the worst contracts in the NBA.
Last 5 Games
Sabonis
14.6/13.4/5.8 in 33.6mpg
28/53 - 0.528 FG
1/6 - 0.166 3P
16/28 - 0.571 FT
+/- (-58)
BoogieTime wrote:OxAndFox wrote:Look Boogie, Huerter, and Barnes have been truly awful to start the season.
Last 5 Games
Barnes
10.8/2/1 in 30.8mpg
15/35 - 0.428 FG
8/21 - 0.380 3P
10/15 - 0.666 FT
+/- (-51)
Huerter
8/5/2.6 in 24.2mpg
15/46 - 0.326 FG
7/28 - 0.250 3P
3/5 - 0.600 FT
+/- (-28)
But why doesn't Domas escape your overreactions? He had a poor PO series last year. He has had a poor start to the season. By your own measurements, the Kings wouldn't be able to trade Domas and he is one of the worst contracts in the NBA.
Last 5 Games
Sabonis
14.6/13.4/5.8 in 33.6mpg
28/53 - 0.528 FG
1/6 - 0.166 3P
16/28 - 0.571 FT
+/- (-58)
Also, you seem to not like me being the one to say Huerter/Barnes/Mitchell aren’t strongly positive, yet I’ve offered to bring the discussion to a neutral third party
We can start a thread in the t/t board about it.
Yet you will come up with some way to dismiss the board of random, impartial nba fans as if we have some better measurement to gauge how NBA GMs would see these players (we can’t poll them)
Maybe I’m wrong?
tsherkin wrote:Locked due to absence of adult conversation.
penbeast0 wrote:Guys, if you don't have anything to say, don't post.
E-Balla wrote:LeBron is Jeff George.
G35 wrote:Lebron is not that far off from WB in trade value.
Colbinii wrote:Are the Kings still happy with the Haliburton/Sabonis swap?
