2023-2024 Trade Thread

[blind prophet]

I've thought about the Barnes play more lately. I still don't think he is the weak link, as stated above. But the best thing for the team is a very good defender with an outside shot.

Barnes is more skilled than that, but certainly not a very good defender.

Weird situation.

Think at this stage there is always going to be someone out of Barnes/Huerter either not getting enough looks or not hitting. Tonight was Huerter.

Yeah I agree in part with this. Hurter will tend to get a decent amount of volume shots. HB could be invisible if we don't find him in position to score.

And I think other teams may be able to get much more from HB offensively than we do on average.

[OxAndFox]

I've thought about the Barnes play more lately. I still don't think he is the weak link, as stated above. But the best thing for the team is a very good defender with an outside shot.

Barnes is more skilled than that, but certainly not a very good defender.

Weird situation.

Think at this stage there is always going to be someone out of Barnes/Huerter either not getting enough looks or not hitting. Tonight was Huerter.

Yeah I agree in part with this. Hurter will tend to get a decent amount of volume shots. HB could be invisible if we don't find him in position to score.

And I think other teams may be able to get much more from HB offensively than we do on average.

Absolutely. HB is playing a specialist role without being a specialist.

Barnes' shots stay fairly consistent through the game while Kevin's are mainly coming at the start of the game and the third.

Field Goal Attempts Per Game
1st
Barnes - 2.3
Huerter - 3.3

2nd
Barnes - 2.5
Huerter - 2.3

3rd
Barnes - 2.0
Huerter - 3.1

4th
Barnes - 2.2
Huerter - 1.7

[BoogieTime]

One of the benefits of dealing with Toronto’s UFAs is getting below the tax potentially for Monk. You could then re-sign those guys potentially with bird rights after taking care of Monk

Normally it would cost to clear out salary alone, but would be the cost of business for a trade.

[FarBeyondDriven]

I think Mitchell needs to start and get into the flow of the game, with other starters, in order to be a successful point guard. I don't think he can be as good as he can be on the bench. Some players are like that.

I disagree about Barnes being the weak link. He is what he is. He probably should be a 6th man at this point. Our weakest link is that Murray hasn't developed and his high floor/low ceiling projection is looking accurate. When you're picking that high in the draft you can't miss and he's not a bust but I don't think he's going to be a catalyst to a championship. Our drafts have kinda sucked if I'm being honest

I'm probably alone in this but I think I'd sell Monk and Huerter (and Mitchell) while they still have high enough value. This might be the highest value either will ever have with their ability to help teams shooting and them both having solid seasons. I just see them as net neutral players at the end of the day. Any great shooting night are offset by them being defensive liabilities except for rare occasions and when they have bad shooting nights we are very beatable.

We need a 2/3 with length that can really defend and hit an occasional three off Fox penetration or Sabonis' playmaking. At least I feel like Murray and Barnes are serviceable on both ends if not spectacular on either. It's so hit or miss with our 2 guards.

And like has been the case for years, we need a pogo stick shot blocker that can also defend the perimeter who can spell Sabonis or play alongside him in two-big lineups. It's a lot to ask but something has to be done

[OxAndFox]

I think Mitchell needs to start and get into the flow of the game, with other starters, in order to be a successful point guard. I don't think he can be as good as he can be on the bench. Some players are like that.

I disagree about Barnes being the weak link. He is what he is. He probably should be a 6th man at this point. Our weakest link is that Murray hasn't developed and his high floor/low ceiling projection is looking accurate. When you're picking that high in the draft you can't miss and he's not a bust but I don't think he's going to be a catalyst to a championship. Our drafts have kinda sucked if I'm being honest

I'm probably alone in this but I think I'd sell Monk and Huerter (and Mitchell) while they still have high enough value. This might be the highest value either will ever have with their ability to help teams shooting and them both having solid seasons. I just see them as net neutral players at the end of the day. Any great shooting night are offset by them being defensive liabilities except for rare occasions and when they have bad shooting nights we are very beatable.

We need a 2/3 with length that can really defend and hit an occasional three off Fox penetration or Sabonis' playmaking. At least I feel like Murray and Barnes are serviceable on both ends if not spectacular on either. It's so hit or miss with our 2 guards.

And like has been the case for years, we need a pogo stick shot blocker that can also defend the perimeter who can spell Sabonis or play alongside him in two-big lineups. It's a lot to ask but something has to be done

Monk doesn't have value to anyone else when they don't have bird rights and need space to sign him.

[BoogieTime]

One of the benefits of dealing with Toronto’s UFAs is getting below the tax potentially for Monk. You could then re-sign those guys potentially with bird rights after taking care of Monk

Normally it would cost to clear out salary alone, but would be the cost of business for a trade.

In addition to this the hand wringing with Huerter/Barnes would stop and you’d trade Barnes before he’s a definitive negative

[OxAndFox]

One of the benefits of dealing with Toronto’s UFAs is getting below the tax potentially for Monk. You could then re-sign those guys potentially with bird rights after taking care of Monk

Normally it would cost to clear out salary alone, but would be the cost of business for a trade.

In addition to this the hand wringing with Huerter/Barnes would stop and you’d trade Barnes before he’s a definitive negative

I think that's a really good point regarding getting one of the Raptors in if the team goes that way. But if either one of them comes over the Kings are a tax team next season.

One of the problems, let's say getting Siakam, which I know OGSactownballer is an advocate for and I wouldn't be disappointed with (Monte has earned giving him the benefit of the doubt) is will Keegan become Barnes on offense?
Siakam is at 15.9 attempts per game, the lowest since their title year (he actually had 16 attempts per game in the POs from 11 in the RS).
Where are the shots coming from? If Heurter and Barnes are going out, they have 18, so in theory you have it right there. But you need to add another starter. It would be Duarte and he would increase his minutes to a respectable level (18?) and Monk's minutes would go to around 30 from 25? That would be an increase in shot attempts.
Keegan is at 12.5 and IMO he needs to get to around 15-16 attempts per game which would more than likely see his scoring average go up to around 19-20 when his efficiency goes up. I don't think we see it until MAYBE late in the season. Or at least not until he feels comfortable with his defense.
Of course getting massive talent in like Siakam would be great, I'm not suggesting it wouldn't, but it's a gamble.

I think that is why Monte went after Hart in the off season. IMO he saw him as the guy that will just do a little bit of everything, a good rebounder etc, just a good swiss army knife. Plus defender that doesn't take too many shots, but will hit the open 3. THAT'S the kind of guy this team needs. He would have been in HBs spot, not positionally, but on the roster and you would see the Kings defense actually be half decent (like ranked 15-18 and improving).
Players like he, GP2, Portis? Not sure of others.

[OxAndFox]

Spears has just mentioned Keldon Johnson might be on the outer in San Antonio. He does mention the Warriors would be a fit. Seems a bit of a sketchy rumor, but I'm running with it as conversation anyway.
How about trying to put Huerter/Barnes for Johnson/McDermott. What assets need to be added?
Huertere and Barnes would give them a bit more spacing overall for Wemby and while McDermott is a decent vet for the locker room HB would be great for that squad and his offensive role would be increased.
Keldon would be an upgrade to Huerter and McDermott can get in the game for spot minutes.

[OxAndFox]

I wonder if the Kings could get Poku from OKC. Obviously not playing much and hasn't carved a niche for himself.
They don't have any need for Davion with Cason.

Would you be willing to go Barnes for Poku/Bertans?
Obviously Poku isn't ready to start or anything as he is ramping up, but Sasha or Lyles comes into the starting line-up and Bertans can still be used as a sharp shooter at times.
It's a gamble on Poku, but would wipe Barnes' money off and allow a reset for the MLE next season.
Poku did average 2.2 blocks per 36 last season.

Just looking for some young players that for whatever reason, injury or form have fallen out of the rotation.

[BoogieTime]

We're developing a Huerter and Barnes problem, and they might need to be moved before they can't be

[LightTheBeam]

I really love the Lauri rumor.

I'm not sure its going to be enough but id happily offer up Huerter and or Barnes, 2 1sts + 2 swaps. He doesn't fix the defense, but adds more size and rebounding. Plus this is another guy who we can rely on to go get his own bucket instead of Fox having all the pressure when Monk is off, and Sabonis has a bad matchup.

I don't think they would want anything to do with Barnes so ideally we would have a 3rd team lined up to move him for a guard. But even in the interim I think we can make do with that.

Fox/Monk
Ellis/Duarte
Keegan/Barnes
Lauri/Sasha
Sabonis/Lyles

[BoogieTime]

As a player I'd rather have Lauri than any of the other players currently being mentioned. He's in his prime and balling and spacing for Domas unlike Pascal, and he is just more sheer talented than role player OG. Don't care about defense and especially "wings", he is more talented than OG.

He ends next year and is only making 18. It would be a risk and I would want the jazz to give us expirings for a lot more salary to potentially get below the cap for Monk

[codydaze]

I put the chances of getting Lauri without sending Keegan to Utah as slim to none. Lauri is a clear talent upgrade but I really don't want to move Keegan.

[BoogieTime]

I put the chances of getting Lauri without sending Keegan to Utah as slim to none. Lauri is a clear talent upgrade but I really don't want to move Keegan.

Thats tight for me.. As of today I'd probably send Keegan without additional compensation though, and would want salary cleared potential for Monk. I'd also want a reasonable idea that he would be resigning

My opinion on Keegan switches pretty rapidly, and he's had a solid recent stretch and 'can be' a better all around player than Lauri someday, but Lauri is the sure borderline all star player. Kings fans tend to get attached to their own talent, but if I were to post Keegan and fillers for Lauri on the GB board most would agree that would be solid for the Kings.

[codydaze]

I put the chances of getting Lauri without sending Keegan to Utah as slim to none. Lauri is a clear talent upgrade but I really don't want to move Keegan.

Thats tight for me.. As of today I'd probably send Keegan without additional compensation though, and would want salary cleared potential for Monk. I'd also want a reasonable idea that he would be resigning

My opinion on Keegan switches pretty rapidly, and he's had a solid recent stretch and 'can be' a better all around player than Lauri someday, but Lauri is the sure borderline all star player. Kings fans tend to get attached to their own talent, but if I were to post Keegan and fillers for Lauri on the GB board most would agree that would be solid for the Kings.

I put a lot of value into Keegan only being into year 2 of his rookie deal as well though. There's a guarantee we have control of his contract for another 6-7 years and while we have a good track record of retaining talent, there's always that chance Lauri looks elsewhere in free agency.

I saw a stat today as well that our starting unit is giving up 106.8 points per 100 possessions and the starting unit without Keegan (anyone else in the lineup) is giving up 120.8 points per possession. I think it's more important to upgrade HB's spot while retaining Keegan than it is upgrading Keegan to someone like Lauri.

Again, I think the value of Keegan for Lauri is fair, we may even owe value on top but I personally wouldn't go that route.

[BoogieTime]

I put the chances of getting Lauri without sending Keegan to Utah as slim to none. Lauri is a clear talent upgrade but I really don't want to move Keegan.

Thats tight for me.. As of today I'd probably send Keegan without additional compensation though, and would want salary cleared potential for Monk. I'd also want a reasonable idea that he would be resigning

My opinion on Keegan switches pretty rapidly, and he's had a solid recent stretch and 'can be' a better all around player than Lauri someday, but Lauri is the sure borderline all star player. Kings fans tend to get attached to their own talent, but if I were to post Keegan and fillers for Lauri on the GB board most would agree that would be solid for the Kings.

I put a lot of value into Keegan only being into year 2 of his rookie deal as well though. There's a guarantee we have control of his contract for another 6-7 years and while we have a good track record of retaining talent, there's always that chance Lauri looks elsewhere in free agency.

I saw a stat today as well that our starting unit is giving up 106.8 points per 100 possessions and the starting unit without Keegan (anyone else in the lineup) is giving up 120.8 points per possession. I think it's more important to upgrade HB's spot while retaining Keegan than it is upgrading Keegan to someone like Lauri.

Again, I think the value of Keegan for Lauri is fair, we may even owe value on top but I personally wouldn't go that route.

If the Jazz take some of our salary as well, and you think you could resign Monk with early bird (I’m skeptical) could you renegotiate and extend Lauri?

Interesting stat

[blind prophet]

Why is it for the past 15 years or so we get mentioned as being interested in players as frequently as we do?

[OxAndFox]

We simply aren't going to get Lauri without Keegan and I wouldn't be doing that.
Keegan is showing true two-way potential.
I don't think Keegan will ever get to Lauri's offensive output peak, but lucky there are two ends of the court.
I think a conservative estimate would say Keegan will become a 20ppg scorer. Do the 4-5 ppg make up for the defense? I'm not sure. Unless you think Lauri could become a much more potent offensive player in this system, which he just might.
I would also put money on the Kings would need to take Collins. So it might look like Keegan/Barnes/Huerter for Lauri/Collins.

There's a reason why everyone is asking for Keegan. The league knows how good he can become. Luckily Monte and the FO along with the coaching staff know this too.

[BoogieTime]

We simply aren't going to get Lauri without Keegan and I wouldn't be doing that.
Keegan is showing true two-way potential.
I don't think Keegan will ever get to Lauri's offensive output peak, but lucky there are two ends of the court.
I think a conservative estimate would say Keegan will become a 20ppg scorer. Do the 4-5 ppg make up for the defense? I'm not sure. Unless you think Lauri could become a much more potent offensive player in this system, which he just might.
I would also put money on the Kings would need to take Collins. So it might look like Keegan/Barnes/Huerter for Lauri/Collins.

There's a reason why everyone is asking for Keegan. The league knows how good he can become. Luckily Monte and the FO along with the coaching staff know this too.

Because the team isn't moving Fox/Sabonis and none of the other players have too much value?

He's what you would ask for when dealing with the Kings if you are rebuilding. On the T/T board I doubt he's seen as the sure future all star local media has him as or how Kings fans view him (or other team's fanbase's boards)

[BoogieTime]

if Jake Fischer is to be believed (how much credit does he have?) the Raptors need Keegan in a deal for either Pascal or OG..

Not only do I question Pascal's fit with the Kings with the spacing and lack of rim protection, but the downturn in his game should mean a discount for sure. Maybe there are more teams after him than I realize. OG I can see their demand because IMO he should have league wide appeal and will get a nice return

Masai will probably hold on too long and get nothing in return, which he will begin to be known by