Morse Code wrote:madskillz8 wrote:My take on OG, the first player listed on this list:
Raptors fans promote him like the one of the best players in the league for a while just to trade him for 4 FRPs. His stats are cool, and on paper, he can make huge impact in any team. Yet, it never materialized up to date.
First of all his stats might suggest that he can be a great 3rd option on offense- 15 ppgs with very efficient shooting.
No, he can't be a great 3rd option for any top offensive team. He not only lacks creating his offense, but he is not a good offensive distributor - it is hard to have a ball moving with him on the floor. To do that, you need five players with good understanding of basketball, especially on offense.
And yes, he's a very good wing defender. At this point, he's an athletic freak who can perfectly defend 1-on-1s, and can hit open shoots very effectively, but nothing more. I know it would be a bold statement, but he's not a good basketball player. He's the epitome of the clash of analytics with eye test.
Add him to the Kings, we're contenders!! "On paper" But I dont think he would be an improvement from Barnes. Even though he's more efficient, our offense will be worse. "But his defense is great". Yes he's a great wing stopper with his athleticism, and versatile. Thus, basically get little worse on offense, and get little better in defense. The question how much you would pay for that? And you would also start paying luxury tax for moving from Barnes to OG.
I'm not an OG stan like many Raptors fans but so much of this is off. That's not shade towards you because
I'm assuming this happens to many fans of other fan bases when assessing a player they don't often watch. I agree with the offensive creation being lacking though, but his impact on the game far exceeds his advanced stats. When he doesn't play, we notice the drop off more than any other player on the team.
Most Raptors fans don't want to trade him at all, even if we overpay 40+ per year to keep him. They believe he's that valuable and fits with anyone because of his defense, run pressure, and shooting. I don't entirely agree with paying him 40+, or risking him walking for nothing though.
But tbh, if he was already signed, he'd be as close to untouchable almost as Scottie Barnes is for most fans. Everyone else can take a hike, aside from Scottie, but don't undersell jump you'd notice, going from Barnes to OG.
Actually I'm curious what you guys think. Let's assume the trade package going out was the exact same for either player... Who would you guys rather have? Pascal or OG?
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You're right, I rarely watch a full Raptors game. Over the last two years, I watched him maybe 4 or 5 times. I agree, that's a small sample size to accurately evaluate a player. However, whenever I watched him, I failed to see what makes him 40m$ player that can carry Kings to the next level. I fail to see the hype. For example, whenever I watch Gobert, he catches my eye as he disrupts many drives, even if he doesn't block many shoots.
OG, in my opinion, is a very good 1-on-1 defender as he has a great lateral quickness and wingspan. It's very disruptive. Also he proved that he can be an effective 3pt shooter. This makes him a very good role player that can help any team. But no, don't give very good role player a superstar money. That's what I am saying because the success in NBA is all about CBA (salary cap and team construction) IMO. And offensively, he's not fluid. It's hard to have the ball and the players keep moving with him on the floor for 30 minutes.
There was a tweet that is shared many times on realgm - he keep opposing players like 10% FG. Once I read this tweet, I was like - Wow - seems like I was wrong all the time. Then I found the clip of him vs Ant. 1/9 FG, let's watch this performance together:
0:10 - Ant easily beats him 1-on-1 off the dribble but blows an easy layup.
0:20 - Ant almost beats him off the dribble again, OG is behind and tries to recover. He slightly pushes/bodies Ant as he jumps for the floater - it is a foul 90% of the time "by NBA standards". A non-call this time. I'm not a fan of these calls though.
0:30 - Ant makes contact and IMHO flops to get a call. He started to get these "superstar" calls a lot. Good no-call. And props to OG for staying in front.
0:38 - a desperate last 1.5 seconds play - turn around fade away - it's a 15-20% shoot.
0:50 - Ant is fishing for a call again by putting his body between the ball and the defender. Similar to the 0:10 - but this time Ant fails to create separation. Still he misses an easy one as he concentrates on getting the call.
1:00 - in and out - completely open look from the midrange
1:10 - Ant creates an enough separation for a shot but just short. But I think, he's like 30% on these Jordan-like shots in general.
1:18 - Very good defense by OG since he doesn't bite Ant's fake after the dribble.
Well, thanks for watching. All in all, if they play again and have same possessions, it would easily be 3 or 4/8 and a foul instead of 1/9, which is a pretty standard performance by Ant.
Look, I'm not saying OG is a not good defender. He is. It is almost impossible to have such a quick feet, wingspan, and strength and be just an average defender. However, such tweets are generating a huge hype that makes us (non-Raps fans) believe he's killing Ant with his lockdown defense, thus he worth 40m$ even as a role player.
BTW, after we lost to Pelicans third time last night as we failed to match their length, OG discussion had started again. That's why I went to watch his performance against Pelicans and found this one with defensive highlights:
Another thing I heard a lot about OG that how he always defends the best opposing player either he's a guard or a center (exaggeration to indicate his versatility, I know). This is something big, and generates a hype. In this clip though, he defends CJ McCollum when Ingram is on the court, Murphy III when CJ McCollum is on the court, Josh Richardson when both CJ and Ingram are on the court, Naji Marshall when CJ is on the court, and in only one position he defends Ingram.
TBH I was expecting to see some lockdown defense on Ingram when I saw "defensive highlights" in the title, to no avail. Our problem is to defend long-strong wings. Again, these are just two videos, maybe I just randomly come up with such examples against his case, but it is what it is.
To sum up, I don't think, especially with this price tag (multiple 1sts, and 40m$ extension -> luxury tax), it's a game changer to replace Barnes (+ say three 1st) with OG.