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Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:54 am
by cuad
mitchweber wrote:cuad wrote:Yeah well at least Justin Williams would have grabbed more than 2 rebounds in 27 minutes.
Yeah, but he wouldn't have pulled defenders away from the basket the way Spencer did through the game--and of course, Spencer isn't usually this bad. The answer sure as hell isn't Justin Williams.
I'm not so sure he did. LaMarcus Aldridge had 4 offensive rebounds and Joel Przybilla had 5.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:56 am
by a-rod
cdt3 wrote:Hawes is not ready yet. I agree they need a defensive Center. They are just so packed with offensive big guys. They need one.
JT put up 19/9 vs the last 3 playoff teams we have faced. Donte/Noci/Spencer all stunk tonight.
And will Martin or Garcia hit a late free throw? That is the problem with too much youth late in the game. Even Evans missed 1 that may have changed the game. It will come.
Please Don't Use Youth as an Excuse.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:01 am
by pillwenney
cuad wrote:mitchweber wrote:cuad wrote:Yeah well at least Justin Williams would have grabbed more than 2 rebounds in 27 minutes.
Yeah, but he wouldn't have pulled defenders away from the basket the way Spencer did through the game--and of course, Spencer isn't usually this bad. The answer sure as hell isn't Justin Williams.
I'm not so sure he did. LaMarcus Aldridge had 4 offensive rebounds and Joel Przybilla had 5.
What do Portland's offensive rebounds have to do with pulling defenders away from the basket? Everybody who guarded Spencer at the high post tonight was pressuring the hell out of him--thus opening up a lane around the basket. He didn't do much else offensively tonight--but being a threat was important. Had Justin Williams been in his position, the defense would have left him out there, since the defense knows that Justin Williams is about as offensively capable as a chipmunk.
Re:
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:01 am
by Wolfay
a-rod wrote:I've never been a fan of Paul Westphal or the way he coaches defense...
I realize that his knowledge is in offense and game management, but he needs to realize that way he coaches defense dont work anymore, this isn't the 90s, his overall defensive game plan was pathetic..
Westphal doesn't exactly have the best defensive team to work with, and I'd argue that Evans is our only legit defender. Everybody else is average at best.
You seem to be the only one on this board who has a problem with Westphal. Without Westphal, I guarantee you we would be as bad as we were last year.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:06 am
by Wizenheimer
mitchweber wrote:
Back to Przybilla though--I hope this game is a reminder to those out there that consistently underrate the importance of an interior presence defensively. I'll say it again--the guy was absolutely huge tonight, and players of his type shouldn't be viewed as just off-the-bench role players. There aren't many defensive anchors in this league, and we need one. Having said that, a lot of it isn't really Spencer and Jason's fault. The other rotations now are pretty bad, and Jason and Spencer can both improve in their rotations a lot too--which they presumably will over time.
this is spot on
even though the NBA has changed rules and officiating emphasis to favor perimeter players, the value of a post presence is still huge. Przybilla isn't much of a presence on the offensive end other then off. rebounding, but he's crucial for the Blazers on defense. They just aren't the same team without him. And when portland had the luxury of rotating Przybilla in for Oden, they were a completely different team.
I'm not sure where the Kings will find a defensive anchor like Przybilla, but if they could, the Kings would be a different team. If they can find a way for Evans and Martin to work well with each other, that will be a really dangerous team
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:25 am
by PDXKnight
Good game guys. I've been a big fan of Sacramento's direction as a team this season. Your turnaround has been nothing short of amazing.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:27 am
by Malapropism
Tyreke Evans was impressive as hell.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:05 am
by ICMTM
mitchweber wrote:mitchweber wrote:Well, tough to complain about that half--especially when we got off to such a rocky start.
I think a big key for us is keeping Przybilla in foul trouble. His defensive presence is absolutely crucial for them.
Well, I hate to say I was right. Przybilla was far and away the MVP of this game--stats be damned.
Agreed with others--incredibly frustrating loss. The game was just so winnable.
Personally, I'm up for benching Spencer again--maybe give him another chance to get his head out of his ass. Stats don't even do justice to how bad he was tonight. But he also needs to be put in a situation where he can be the center of things more often. He scored on a couple of straight possessions in the second when given the ball. We just never give him the ball because he's currently a horrendous "incidental scorer".
I'll say this--I can't wait to get Kevin back. Put him in there with him getting the opportunities that Noc and Donte are currently getting, and this team suddenly gets a whole lot better offensively.
We also just need to find a way to get Tyreke involved more consistently. Having said that. Portland was really trying to keep him from getting the ball in the end, and our guys just didn't execute.
Back to Przybilla though--I hope this game is a reminder to those out there that consistently underrate the importance of an interior presence defensively. I'll say it again--the guy was absolutely huge tonight, and players of his type shouldn't be viewed as just off-the-bench role players. There aren't many defensive anchors in this league, and we need one. Having said that, a lot of it isn't really Spencer and Jason's fault. The other rotations now are pretty bad, and Jason and Spencer can both improve in their rotations a lot too--which they presumably will over time.
Now if Smills would jump off the Spencer Hawes bandwagon I could take you two off my ignore list (I'm obviously kidding).
I'll say this. I've seen growth in Greene and Thompson whereas in Hawes I have not. I think the benching at the beginning of the year was directly related to his work ethic. I'm telling you guys GO TO THE GAMES and you can see the chemistry that Evans, Thompson, Greene, and a few others have. You will also see how Spencer Hawes doesn't click with these guys. I think by Spencer not playing in Summer league he's paying for it now. I don't think he's won the confidence of the coaching staff AND I think he missed out on chances to develop chemistry with his team.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:14 am
by pillwenney
Yeah, I could agree with that. I also, like I said, just think that the logical place for him is coming off the bench.
He's just so talented, and I think that I can still say that problem with him is physical and mental maturity--two things that'll presumably come with age. He's used to being at the center of things, it seems. And when he's not, he just kind of unravels.
Having said all of that, I think we need to feed him in the post more.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:16 am
by KF10
This game has been so frustrating. This is a winnable game for us. At some point, I can't keep telling myself "This is only a young team. This is just growing pains." Not discrediting the Blazers or anything, they are a very good team but the seeing the Kings fail with the execution at game-ending events is too much to bear at times. Defensive mislapses and unforced TOs are constant with this team.
At some point, we should be winning games such as this one and the previous similar games that we had.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 8:13 am
by Milkdud
Im not sure what it is but a a very averaged player in Beno has blown up Portland the last couple games.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 9:28 am
by 215paperboy
late game melt down...westphal should've had tyreke at the point the last 5 mins of the game. they kept trying to post him up and the blazers made it hard for him to get the ball. they should run pick & roll late in games and a little more iso with reke.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 1:05 pm
by _SRV_
Milkdud wrote:Im not sure what it is but a a very averaged player in Beno has blown up Portland the last couple games.
I didn't watch this game, but Beno's play this season is far from average, he's our second best player.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:33 pm
by Blazinaway
Malapropism wrote:Tyreke Evans was impressive as hell.
I'll second that in a big way, Evans impressed the hell out of me. You guys have a promising future.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 3:48 pm
by RIPskaterdude
Didn't get a chance to see the game, but why did Evans only take 9 shots total?
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:10 pm
by and2premiere
Evans only missed shot was a jumper ( i didn't count the shot he threw up to beat the buzzer). At they end, they packed the lanes, so that's why he probably only shot 9.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 4:41 pm
by darkadun
I think we need a little more consistancy is terms of "these players are who we go to for points". I think one of our issue's is we don't consistently run the same things. I noticed the contrast in the 2nd half w/Aldridge. He didn't have a good 1st, shot like 3/11 or something. Yet they kept feeding him to start the 2nd. Thats whats turned the game around, and from that point on we had to match up to the blazers. They dictated to us the gameplan.
I realize we are young, but I'd like for us to say, "Ok, we are going to keep feeding Jason & make you stop him." I think this is what's hurting us at end of game situations. We seem to be floundering, not knowing who to look for. At the end of the game, Donte should not be handeling the ball & driving in (despite scoring he was out of control).
...and a side note to this game. Can someone tell the guys to start charging? How many times can you knock a guy over and complain about it? We must of had 5 charges in the 2nd half, and I wouldn't say any of them were particulary good D.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 5:01 pm
by ICMTM
KF10 wrote:This game has been so frustrating. This is a winnable game for us. At some point, I can't keep telling myself "This is only a young team. This is just growing pains." Not discrediting the Blazers or anything, they are a very good team but the seeing the Kings fail with the execution at game-ending events is too much to bear at times. Defensive mislapses and unforced TOs are constant with this team.
At some point, we should be winning games such as this one and the previous similar games that we had.
It's NO different than when we used to see Jason Williams do the dumbest things at the end of games, or Chris Webber do something dumb. In fact remember C-Webb had a choking rep? IMO he wasn't cold as ice, but he was MUCH more formidable at the end of games than earlier in his career. There is a learning curve that takes playing in these situations to get. Our guys haven't had the playing experience.
I guess really I'm seeing what I expected to see as an objective observer. Good teams expose flaws.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:03 pm
by SadKingsFan
They need to give Evans the damn ball more often...period. And please dont get me started on Spencer Hawes, the guy is absolutely useless with an obvious lack of work ethic, and i can go on and on about it. I dont see how anyone can be high on this utter piece of trash.
I would have seriously been banned had i posted last night.
Re: Sacramento (10-12) @ Portland (14-11)
Posted: Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:23 pm
by cdt3
a-rod wrote:cdt3 wrote:Hawes is not ready yet. I agree they need a defensive Center. They are just so packed with offensive big guys. They need one.
JT put up 19/9 vs the last 3 playoff teams we have faced. Donte/Noci/Spencer all stunk tonight.
And will Martin or Garcia hit a late free throw? That is the problem with too much youth late in the game. Even Evans missed 1 that may have changed the game. It will come.
Please Don't Use Youth as an Excuse.
Don't use youth as an exuse. That is life. The Lakers, Spurs, Celtics, and any NBA winner in histoy of the league are full of vets (see NY Yankees). They don't bring in more than 1 or 2 new players and none play in crunchtime. That is why veterans win most of the time and young players usually don't.
Freaking Pryzbilla killed us because he is a vet. He used to be a guy who got used. Beno was our best player in Portland. He used to do crazy dribbles in the paint and they got stolen. That's what experience does for you. Now Donte/Casspi/Hawes all do it because they are young and inexperienced in crunchtime.
How many rings have 18 year olds won? Lebron has been in the NBA how many years and still has zero rings. MJ didn't win his first ring until around his 5th NBA season after 4 years of college. There is a reason NBA announcers around the league say Evans doesn't play like a rookie because most guys do. And Evans won't be a title contender for several years.
That is why it is so important for this team to get one big vet big guy to play in crunchtime because Hwaes and Donte are 3 -4 years away from being a dependable. JT and Casspi are a little farther along maturity wise than the others. But we need one very solid vet big.