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JMAC3 wrote:The Center position in itself is usually not a good pick to invest a top 10 pick in general unless the guy is truly a freak like a KAT, Davis, etc because as a I said. 90% of them are going to fall into an archetype that doesn't return that level of investment. Most of them are going to be average starters when they do work out.

Active centers who would go top 10 in a re-draft:

Walker Kessler
Evan Mobley
Jarrett Allen
Robert Williams
Ayton
Jaren Jackson Jr
Jokic
Embiid
Gobert
Sengun
Vucevic
Looney
Porzingis
Holmgren
Duren
Myles Turner
Sabonis
Adebayo
Claxton
Horford
Brook Lopez

Possibly Okongwu, Mark williams and Isaiah Stewart

I also don't think we should necessarily pigeon-hole Filipowski into being a Center. I think he has the potential to be a 4 or a 5 - kind of like Olynyk. Kevin Love was more of a 4 than a 5.

Markannen is more of a 4. Sure, Markannen is probably more mobile and athletic than Flip. But this was Markannen as a prospect - the 2 drives at 1:30 in the vid..looks quite a bit like stuff we've seen from Flip:

JMAC3 wrote:If his median outcome is Kelly Olynyk how high are you taking him?

Why not? If your median outcome is a valuable rotation player that's a good player that's a lottery pick.

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Hal14 wrote:

Sure, he's obviously unlikely to be a 2x MVP like Jokic. But he's also likely to be better than Moe Wagner or Frank Kaminsky (both of those guys put up like 2 PPG as freshmen. Flip was putting up equal or better stats as a freshman to what they did as juniors/seniors).

..

Is this really a good argument though? Just because a guy did something at a younger age doesn't me that they are better, also we don't know what kaminsky what of looked like if he was the man his freshman or sophomore years. All prospects are different and mature at different ages and circumstances


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mattao313 wrote:

Hal14 wrote:

Sure, he's obviously unlikely to be a 2x MVP like Jokic. But he's also likely to be better than Moe Wagner or Frank Kaminsky (both of those guys put up like 2 PPG as freshmen. Flip was putting up equal or better stats as a freshman to what they did as juniors/seniors).

..

Is this really a good argument though? Just because a guy did something at a younger age doesn't me that they are better, also we don't know what kaminsky what of looked like if he was the man his freshman or sophomore years. All prospects are different and mature at different ages and circumstances

On average it does mean they are a better prospect. Doesn't mean it's 100% universal rule that can never be broken but for the most part the best players in the NBA were the best players at the younger ages. Sometimes players come on later. But not on average.

EvanZ wrote:

mattao313 wrote:

Hal14 wrote:

Sure, he's obviously unlikely to be a 2x MVP like Jokic. But he's also likely to be better than Moe Wagner or Frank Kaminsky (both of those guys put up like 2 PPG as freshmen. Flip was putting up equal or better stats as a freshman to what they did as juniors/seniors).

..

Is this really a good argument though? Just because a guy did something at a younger age doesn't me that they are better, also we don't know what kaminsky what of looked like if he was the man his freshman or sophomore years. All prospects are different and mature at different ages and circumstances

On average it does mean they are a better prospect. Doesn't mean it's 100% universal rule that can never be broken but for the most part the best players in the NBA were the best players at the younger ages. Sometimes players come on later. But not on average.

I mean if you compare two players and say this prospect did this at 18 and this nba player only did it at 21 or whatever imo doesn't mean the 18 year old is automatically better or going to be better.

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mattao313 wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

mattao313 wrote:Is this really a good argument though? Just because a guy did something at a younger age doesn't me that they are better, also we don't know what kaminsky what of looked like if he was the man his freshman or sophomore years. All prospects are different and mature at different ages and circumstances

On average it does mean they are a better prospect. Doesn't mean it's 100% universal rule that can never be broken but for the most part the best players in the NBA were the best players at the younger ages. Sometimes players come on later. But not on average.

I mean if you compare two players and say this prospect did this at 18 and this nba player only did it at 21 or whatever imo doesn't mean the 18 year old is automatically better or going to be better.

You already said that, and I already answered. If you want to ignore age entirely or a little bit, that is your prerogative. But the data support what I said. It's extremely easy to look at the average performance/productivity of college players as they go from Freshmen to Senior season. On average they improve.

It's weird to me that anyone actually questions this. I mean isn't it obvious? Do you really think that players never improve with age or something? Make it make sense.

EvanZ wrote:

mattao313 wrote:

EvanZ wrote:
On average it does mean they are a better prospect. Doesn't mean it's 100% universal rule that can never be broken but for the most part the best players in the NBA were the best players at the younger ages. Sometimes players come on later. But not on average.

I mean if you compare two players and say this prospect did this at 18 and this nba player only did it at 21 or whatever imo doesn't mean the 18 year old is automatically better or going to be better.

You already said that, and I already answered. If you want to ignore age entirely or a little bit, that is your prerogative. But the data support what I said. It's extremely easy to look at the average performance/productivity of college players as they go from Freshmen to Senior season. On average they improve.

It's weird to me that anyone actually questions this. I mean isn't it obvious? Do you really think that players never improve with age or something? Make it make sense.

What data? Most prospects don't even become Nba players.

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Bro you seem to be brain dead if you don't think players improve during college and simply as they age. What are we even doing here lol My guy am I literally the first person who has ever told you about the concept of aging curves?

EvanZ wrote:Bro you seem to be brain dead if you don't think players improve during college and simply as they age. What are we even doing here lol My guy am I literally the first person who has ever told you about the concept of aging curves?

Lol I'm brain dead because you think on average a prospect doing something at a earlier age than a actual Nba player makes them on average better? Now that sounds stupid.

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mattao313 wrote:

EvanZ wrote:Bro you seem to be brain dead if you don't think players improve during college and simply as they age. What are we even doing here lol My guy am I literally the first person who has ever told you about the concept of aging curves?

Lol I'm brain dead because you think on average a prospect doing something at a earlier age than a actual Nba player makes them on average better? Now that sounds stupid.

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Huh? You’re not even being coherent. What are you talking about?

The more I watch the more I like what I see.

I don't think his talent is a question. It's more his consistency or lack thereof.

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He's the Thunder's future starting 4