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GreatWhiteStiff wrote:

esvl wrote:

EvanZ wrote:If Castle can't shoot, he will have a very hard time finding his way on the court imo.

He can be an average shooter as there is nothing wrong with his shooting mechanic, but, unlike 90%+ prospects on this draft, he can be very impactful in many other ways, and he has a proven record. That makes him a top prospect.

How easy must the nba be if just about any prospect with decent mechanics can work their way to "average nba shooter" fairly easily?

Grayson Allen shot 32% from 3 to start his career and showed immediate improvement year 2 and beyond. Norm Powell shot 28% and 32% from three in his second and third years. Both guys are current top 10 three point shooters. NBA skills development is a real thing provided the players want to put the work in.

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:

esvl wrote:

EvanZ wrote:If Castle can't shoot, he will have a very hard time finding his way on the court imo.

He can be an average shooter as there is nothing wrong with his shooting mechanic, but, unlike 90%+ prospects on this draft, he can be very impactful in many other ways, and he has a proven record. That makes him a top prospect.

How easy must the nba be if just about any prospect with decent mechanics can work their way to "average nba shooter" fairly easily?

it's not the nba. it's the sport.

turns out great athletes get better at shooting when they put in the work - that goes for any league, any level in the world. who woulda thunk.

SeattleJazzFan wrote:

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:

esvl wrote:
He can be an average shooter as there is nothing wrong with his shooting mechanic, but, unlike 90%+ prospects on this draft, he can be very impactful in many other ways, and he has a proven record. That makes him a top prospect.

How easy must the nba be if just about any prospect with decent mechanics can work their way to "average nba shooter" fairly easily?

it's not the nba. it's the sport.

turns out great athletes get better at shooting when they put in the work - that goes for any league, any level in the world. who woulda thunk.

Literally the dumbest thing I’ve heard here in a long time.

Chuck Everett wrote:

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:

esvl wrote:
He can be an average shooter as there is nothing wrong with his shooting mechanic, but, unlike 90%+ prospects on this draft, he can be very impactful in many other ways, and he has a proven record. That makes him a top prospect.

How easy must the nba be if just about any prospect with decent mechanics can work their way to "average nba shooter" fairly easily?

Grayson Allen shot 32% from 3 to start his career and showed immediate improvement year 2 and beyond. Norm Powell shot 28% and 32% from three in his second and third years. Both guys are current top 10 three point shooters. NBA skills development is a real thing provided the players want to put the work in.

LMAO yeah Grayson Allen noted terrible shooter coming out of Duke

EvanZ wrote:

Chuck Everett wrote:

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:
How easy must the nba be if just about any prospect with decent mechanics can work their way to "average nba shooter" fairly easily?

Grayson Allen shot 32% from 3 to start his career and showed immediate improvement year 2 and beyond. Norm Powell shot 28% and 32% from three in his second and third years. Both guys are current top 10 three point shooters. NBA skills development is a real thing provided the players want to put the work in.

LMAO yeah Grayson Allen noted terrible shooter coming out of Duke

He still shot poorly his first year. And why did you skip over Norm Powell? I mean, the point is some guys get better at their weaknesses once they become pros. Hard concept to grasp apparently.

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:

esvl wrote:

EvanZ wrote:If Castle can't shoot, he will have a very hard time finding his way on the court imo.

He can be an average shooter as there is nothing wrong with his shooting mechanic, but, unlike 90%+ prospects on this draft, he can be very impactful in many other ways, and he has a proven record. That makes him a top prospect.

How easy must the nba be if just about any prospect with decent mechanics can work their way to "average nba shooter" fairly easily?

Pretty easy if basketball consisted of shooting only

clyde21 wrote:this is real, it's a tough bet to make.

Anthony Black, who is one of my favorite prospects in a long time, and a better version of Stephon Castle in many ways, didn't get many mins as a rookie because of the shot

it really is that important in today's NBA

You are repeating the same mistake as with Black

He looks to be around 6'3/6'4 or so imo.. his movements remind me of Kawhi and a bit like Norm Powell. Has a knack for the ball and where to be on the court, but cant score at all outside of the paint and isnt quick off the bounce.. Probably top 5 with the tourney boosting his draft position.

esvl wrote:

clyde21 wrote:this is real, it's a tough bet to make.

Anthony Black, who is one of my favorite prospects in a long time, and a better version of Stephon Castle in many ways, didn't get many mins as a rookie because of the shot

it really is that important in today's NBA

You are repeating the same mistake as with Black

i am still fully onboard with AB, the lack of shooting tho, esp on this Magic team when guys like Suggs, Pablo and Wagner are getting so many mins, means that he won't get many mins early

clyde21 wrote:

esvl wrote:

clyde21 wrote:this is real, it's a tough bet to make.

Anthony Black, who is one of my favorite prospects in a long time, and a better version of Stephon Castle in many ways, didn't get many mins as a rookie because of the shot

it really is that important in today's NBA

You are repeating the same mistake as with Black

i am still fully onboard with AB, the lack of shooting tho, esp on this Magic team when guys like Suggs, Pablo and Wagner are getting so many mins, means that he won't get many mins early

I concur

Chuck Everett wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

Chuck Everett wrote:
Grayson Allen shot 32% from 3 to start his career and showed immediate improvement year 2 and beyond. Norm Powell shot 28% and 32% from three in his second and third years. Both guys are current top 10 three point shooters. NBA skills development is a real thing provided the players want to put the work in.

LMAO yeah Grayson Allen noted terrible shooter coming out of Duke

He still shot poorly his first year. And why did you skip over Norm Powell? I mean, the point is some guys get better at their weaknesses once they become pros. Hard concept to grasp apparently.

It's just a bad example to use Grayson Allen. It's like such an obviously bad example. It would be like citing Stephen Curry as having shot poorly in his first summer league. I mean it's bad to use any of these guys as anecdotes but you don't seem to get that. Oh well. It's unfortunate how innumerate our society has become.

.

Norman Powell also shot 40% from three as a rookie, I would be shocked if Castle did that.

clyde21 wrote:

esvl wrote:

clyde21 wrote:this is real, it's a tough bet to make.

Anthony Black, who is one of my favorite prospects in a long time, and a better version of Stephon Castle in many ways, didn't get many mins as a rookie because of the shot

it really is that important in today's NBA

You are repeating the same mistake as with Black

i am still fully onboard with AB, the lack of shooting tho, esp on this Magic team when guys like Suggs, Pablo and Wagner are getting so many mins, means that he won't get many mins early

AB shot 39.4% from 3pt this year. Hes not as good as that singular data point might indicate for obvious reasons, but his shooting is coming along nicely. Wasn't a huge sample at 37/94 total, but he doesn't shy away from taking the shots he needs to take. Was at exactly 3 attempts per 75 possession. His form is also noticeably smoother than last season.

Chuck Everett wrote:

EvanZ wrote:

Chuck Everett wrote:
Grayson Allen shot 32% from 3 to start his career and showed immediate improvement year 2 and beyond. Norm Powell shot 28% and 32% from three in his second and third years. Both guys are current top 10 three point shooters. NBA skills development is a real thing provided the players want to put the work in.

LMAO yeah Grayson Allen noted terrible shooter coming out of Duke

He still shot poorly his first year.

Variance, right?

Allen had excellent shot mechanics and a large sample size at Duke to know he was a good 3P shooter.

And why did you skip over Norm Powell? I mean, the point is some guys get better at their weaknesses once they become pros. Hard concept to grasp apparently.

Norman Powell is a good example, but my overarching point regarding shooting is "just because 1/10 players develop a 3P shot doesn't mean Prospect X will develop."

So pointing to a small minority and say "See, these guys did it! Look at him, he did, so can this prospect I like". Yeah, he could, but you shouldn't bet on it or factor it in as a realistic outcome.

EvanZ wrote:

SeattleJazzFan wrote:

GreatWhiteStiff wrote:
How easy must the nba be if just about any prospect with decent mechanics can work their way to "average nba shooter" fairly easily?

it's not the nba. it's the sport.

turns out great athletes get better at shooting when they put in the work - that goes for any league, any level in the world. who woulda thunk.

Literally the dumbest thing I’ve heard here in a long time.

amen. the idea that basketball players improving their shooting is limited to the nba really is insanity.

Colbinii wrote:Norman Powell is a good example, but my overarching point regarding shooting is "just because 1/10 players develop a 3P shot doesn't mean Prospect X will develop."

So pointing to a small minority and say "See, these guys did it! Look at him, he did, so can this prospect I like". Yeah, he could, but you shouldn't bet on it or factor it in as a realistic outcome.

Alex Caruso came into the NBA from the G-League shooting 30% from 3. Rui Hachimura shot 28% and 32% from 3 his first two years. Herb Jones shot 33% his first two years. Now all 3 are shooting over 40% from 3.

All I was saying is if Castle puts in the work those guys did, he can improve his shot. He's only 19 and he doesn't have bad mechanics. But some of you want to be smug and act like it's impossible. You don't work for NBA front offices. You're just hobbyists like anyone else here. Get over yourselves.

And I am not speaking directly to you Colbini.

Chuck Everett wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Norman Powell is a good example, but my overarching point regarding shooting is "just because 1/10 players develop a 3P shot doesn't mean Prospect X will develop."

So pointing to a small minority and say "See, these guys did it! Look at him, he did, so can this prospect I like". Yeah, he could, but you shouldn't bet on it or factor it in as a realistic outcome.

Alex Caruso came into the NBA from the G-League shooting 30% from 3. Rui Hachimura shot 28% and 32% from 3 his first two years. Herb Jones shot 33% his first two years. Now all 3 are shooting over 40% from 3.

All I was saying is if Castle puts in the work those guys did, he can improve his shot. He's only 19 and he doesn't have bad mechanics. But some of you want to be smug and act like it's impossible. You don't work for NBA front offices. You're just hobbyists like anyone else here. Get over yourselves.

And I am not speaking directly to you Colbini.

Of course he can improve his shot. What's being debated is mostly whether he will get the opportunity to do that. As I said several pages ago, it's fool's gold to expect non-shooters to become great shooters immediately. Pointing to Kawhi (as was done in this thread) as "an example why you bet on a Stephon Castle" is just fool's gold. Again, as I already said, if you think Castle is good enough to make an impact right away without shooting (which is not easy as a guard/wing), then you should be high on him. If you think he really needs to be a shooter to get on the court, then it's probably rougher sledding. If you think he's Kawhi Leonard, I'm not sure what to tell you other than get a new hobby.

EvanZ wrote:

Chuck Everett wrote:

Colbinii wrote:Norman Powell is a good example, but my overarching point regarding shooting is "just because 1/10 players develop a 3P shot doesn't mean Prospect X will develop."

So pointing to a small minority and say "See, these guys did it! Look at him, he did, so can this prospect I like". Yeah, he could, but you shouldn't bet on it or factor it in as a realistic outcome.

Alex Caruso came into the NBA from the G-League shooting 30% from 3. Rui Hachimura shot 28% and 32% from 3 his first two years. Herb Jones shot 33% his first two years. Now all 3 are shooting over 40% from 3.

All I was saying is if Castle puts in the work those guys did, he can improve his shot. He's only 19 and he doesn't have bad mechanics. But some of you want to be smug and act like it's impossible. You don't work for NBA front offices. You're just hobbyists like anyone else here. Get over yourselves.

And I am not speaking directly to you Colbini.

Of course he can improve his shot. What's being debated is mostly whether he will get the opportunity to do that. As I said several pages ago, it's fool's gold to expect non-shooters to become great shooters immediately. Pointing to Kawhi (as was done in this thread) as "an example why you bet on a Stephon Castle" is just fool's gold. Again, as I already said, if you think Castle is good enough to make an impact right away without shooting (which is not easy as a guard/wing), then you should be high on him. If you think he really needs to be a shooter to get on the court, then it's probably rougher sledding. If you think he's Kawhi Leonard, I'm not sure what to tell you other than get a new hobby.

Who the hell called him Kawhi Leonard? You're just seeing what you want to see.

SeattleJazzFan wrote:

Catchall wrote:In today's game, guys who don't shoot at least league-average don't get much playing time. Floor spacing is just that important.

what did kawhi shoot from three as a frosh? as a sophomore? Castle is a 76% FT shooter so it's not as if he's hopeless. he's 19. 19 year olds improve. of course it's a risk drafting him over say, somebody like Jakobe Walter, from a shooting standpoint, but he does other things better than Walter. there isn't a prospect in the draft without risk.

the biggest mistake draft geeks or actual experts make is forgetting guys improve their shooting all the time, significantly, from the the time they are freshmen to their 2nd or 3rd years in the league. granted, they don't all get to where they need to be, hence the risk, but it is commonplace.