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Holmes got engulfed by Arizonas bigs and looked bad. Couldn't score 1 on 1. I mean edey vs Holmes as who to take is a joke....edey is so much better as a scrorer. No way Holmes scores on clingan.

Guys like Holmes are available in the second round yearly

Dante for Oregon now this is a prospect....

Holmes could become Christian Wood with a brain/heart which is for sure a starting level guy.

And everyone gets engulfed by Edey - that isnt the sticking point. Its whether he can keep up with the space + pace style of the NBA. I waver back and forth but today at least I dont think he can.

According to the Barttorvik database, this is the total list of NCAA players since 2008 that exceed the following statistical thresholds (I added Holmes' numbers for this past season in parenthesis):

- 50+ dunks in a season (71)
- 3pt % of 35%+ (38.6%)
- 4+ 3PA per 100 possessions (4.8)
- Block rate of 6%+ (7.2%)
- Steal rate of 1%+ (1.8%)

https://barttorvik.com/playerstat.php?link=y&minusage=15&minGP=1&minBlk=6&minStl=1&min3P=0.35&mintp100=4&minht=60&mindunkmade=50&year=all&minmin=60&start=-11101&end=all0501

Finding 2-way big men with a real inside-outside presence is like finding a needle in a haystack. Usually when the rare big shows flashes of a 3-pt shot to go along with size and rim protection, they don't stick around in college long enough to put up these numbers. Notable that Holmes also has by far the highest assist % of the group.

reminds me of Julius Randle. He's a 4 imo. I'm worried I might be too low having him at the end of the first. I'm just worried that he's more of a tweener on defense. But there's no doubt he will start in the NBA and be an effective PF.

FarBeyondDriven wrote:reminds me of Julius Randle. He's a 4 imo. I'm worried I might be too low having him at the end of the first. I'm just worried that he's more of a tweener on defense. But there's no doubt he will start in the NBA and be an effective PF.

I think he's too much of a tweener if his frontcourt partner is slower-footed than him and not a rim protector. Fit will matter for him to be maximized

greg4012 wrote:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:reminds me of Julius Randle. He's a 4 imo. I'm worried I might be too low having him at the end of the first. I'm just worried that he's more of a tweener on defense. But there's no doubt he will start in the NBA and be an effective PF.

I think he's too much of a tweener if his frontcourt partner is slower-footed than him and not a rim protector. Fit will matter for him to be maximized

As a 4 or a 5? How many 5s in the league are going to be faster than him?

I think he's the perfect complement next to Sabonis in Sacramento.

typedrat wrote:

greg4012 wrote:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:reminds me of Julius Randle. He's a 4 imo. I'm worried I might be too low having him at the end of the first. I'm just worried that he's more of a tweener on defense. But there's no doubt he will start in the NBA and be an effective PF.

I think he's too much of a tweener if his frontcourt partner is slower-footed than him and not a rim protector. Fit will matter for him to be maximized

As a 4 or a 5? How many 5s in the league are going to be faster than him?

I think he's the perfect complement next to Sabonis in Sacramento.

It's about the 5 not being slower than him, which I think Sabonis is.

I think he's the closest thing in this draft to the sort of player that is needed next to Sabonis, but he's not quite that guy and as a result, I see that fit as potentially setting him up for failure due to too much expectation.

I worry that Holmes as a full time 4 will open him to often playing away from his strengths, and thus have him miscast. Holmes is not an Aaron Gordon type defender. He's a lot more like Jalen Smith. If he's going to be next to a slower footed Center, then the Center needs to at least provide real rim protection chops IMO.

IDK how many 5s in the league are quicker/better perimeter defenders than what Holmes will provide, but I know guys like Bam Adebayo, Nic Claxton, Anthony Davis, and Chet Holmgren are.

A role where Holmes can backup those 5s and play rotation minutes next to them is the ideal situation for him.

greg4012 wrote:

typedrat wrote:

greg4012 wrote:
I think he's too much of a tweener if his frontcourt partner is slower-footed than him and not a rim protector. Fit will matter for him to be maximized

As a 4 or a 5? How many 5s in the league are going to be faster than him?

I think he's the perfect complement next to Sabonis in Sacramento.

It's about the 5 not being slower than him, which I think Sabonis is.

I think he's the closest thing in this draft to the sort of player that is needed next to Sabonis, but he's not quite that guy and as a result, I see that fit as potentially setting him up for failure due to too much expectation.

I worry that Holmes as a full time 4 will open him to often playing away from his strengths, and thus have him miscast. Holmes is not an Aaron Gordon type defender. He's a lot more like Jalen Smith. If he's going to be next to a slower footed Center, then the Center needs to at least provide real rim protection chops IMO.

IDK how many 5s in the league are quicker/better perimeter defenders than what Holmes will provide, but I know guys like Bam Adebayo, Nic Claxton, Anthony Davis, and Chet Holmgren are.

A role where Holmes can backup those 5s and play rotation minutes next to them is the ideal situation for him.

Wouldn't mind him on the Cavs, backing up Mobley and/or Allen.

toooskies wrote:

greg4012 wrote:

typedrat wrote:
As a 4 or a 5? How many 5s in the league are going to be faster than him?

I think he's the perfect complement next to Sabonis in Sacramento.

It's about the 5 not being slower than him, which I think Sabonis is.

I think he's the closest thing in this draft to the sort of player that is needed next to Sabonis, but he's not quite that guy and as a result, I see that fit as potentially setting him up for failure due to too much expectation.

I worry that Holmes as a full time 4 will open him to often playing away from his strengths, and thus have him miscast. Holmes is not an Aaron Gordon type defender. He's a lot more like Jalen Smith. If he's going to be next to a slower footed Center, then the Center needs to at least provide real rim protection chops IMO.

IDK how many 5s in the league are quicker/better perimeter defenders than what Holmes will provide, but I know guys like Bam Adebayo, Nic Claxton, Anthony Davis, and Chet Holmgren are.

A role where Holmes can backup those 5s and play rotation minutes next to them is the ideal situation for him.

Wouldn't mind him on the Cavs, backing up Mobley and/or Allen.

That's a good fit bc I feel like he can play with either and help maintain the defensive size and frontcourt versatility without being relied on to be an anchor.