Deni Avdija - 2020 draft

[Mirotic12]

It was super obvious that Saric was never going to be a creator at the next level, even when he was shining and playing great at youth level tournaments for Croatia, he was also uber developed physically, super strong

Saric would've bee a top5-10 euroleague player had he stayed in the league probably, and a candidate for EL MVP at some point probably too, but he is just a big with some perimeter skills, he was never a perimeter player (Croatia actually played him a ton at Center, he was a great rebounder)

wouldn't say there are dozens of guys better than Osman currently in Europe, and obviously not dozens that are 6'8 in shoes, like there are maybe 2-3 guys, tops, the level of wings in EuroLeague is extremely poor, best player overall is prob still Rudy Fernandez who is old and cranky, we will see how Clyburn returns

I was being kind, it's actually probably more like hundreds of guys in Europe are better than Osman is.

Rudy is the best overall wing in Europe..........you have not seen a EuroLeague game in about 10 years if you actually believe that. I love Rudy, he was an amazing beast in his prime, but he hasn't been the best wing in Europe in years.

To anyone that really wants to know from someone that watches EuroLeague, Avdija has way more talent and skills than Osman does (who is just an average player for EuroLeague standards), and he also has way more skills than Saric does. Saric has not improved even one single iota since he was like 20. He would not be a top 5-10 EuroLeague player.

Even Georgios Printezis that is way past his prime is a much better all around power forward in EuroLeague, let alone someone like Toko Shengelia that is light years a better power forward than Saric is.

I actually thought Avdija was being way overrated in this thread, and now I realize he's possibly the world's most underrated player by far, if numerous people actually think he's even within 100 miles of being compared to a player like Osman.

[No-Man]

I think Saric is better than Shengelia, don't think it's particularly close

In terms of actual currents wings in Europe better than Osman, I am not sure there is one, the best wings (3s who can play some 4, not just PFs) over here are the likes of Rudy F, Clyburn, Deck, Giedraitis, Kalinic, Abalde, Hanga, Claver, Dyshawn Pierre, Papanikolau, Hilliard, Shields, Lucic, Timma, Zoosman, Grigonis, Papapetrou.... I mean, it's tough, some guys are close to Osman (mainly because of how bad Cedi is on D in NBA which would be less obvious in Europe though), but I'd not say any are clearly better

I think Abalde is soon gonna take over as the best swingman in Europe, Deck has the potential to be the best 3-4, I'd say Madrid has the best wings overall still, CSKA, Barça close behind

And yeah, Rudy Fernandez is probably still the best swingman (SG/SF not SF/PF) defender, and all around player in Europe

Before the injury Clyburn was probably the best guy, he is kinda similar to Kelly Oubre for people who haven't watched him play

[Mirotic12]

I think Saric is better than Shengelia, don't think it's particularly close

In terms of actual currents wings in Europe better than Osman, I am not sure there is one, the best wings (3s who can play some 4, not just PFs) over here are the likes of Rudy F, Clyburn, Deck, Giedraitis, Kalinic, Abalde, Hanga, Claver, Dyshawn Pierre, Papanikolau, Hilliard, Shields, Lucic, Timma, Zoosman, Grigonis, Papapetrou.... I mean, it's tough, some guys are close to Osman (mainly because of how bad Cedi is on D in NBA which would be less obvious in Europe though), but I'd not say any are clearly better

I think Abalde is soon gonna take over as the best swingman in Europe, Deck has the potential to be the best 3-4, I'd say Madrid has the best wings overall still, CSKA, Barça close behind

And yeah, Rudy Fernandez is probably still the best swingman (SG/SF not SF/PF) defender, and all around player in Europe

Before the injury Clyburn was probably the best guy, he is kinda similar to Kelly Oubre for people who haven't watched him play

I honestly don't even know where to begin........

[ILOVEIT]

He's got a little bit of Ginobli in his game....

What I LOVE about him and I've not seen in ANY of the top college prospects...is that use of the left hand while dribbling and dunking...especially dunking. You wouldn't even know he is right handed by some of those dunking highlights.

Warriors fan...I'd be happy drafting him.

[Perseus1966]

I knew his father he was a red star belgrade player

[King Ken]

My biggest fear isn't offensive, its hes a 4 on defense.

[nolang1]

My biggest fear isn't offensive, its hes a 4 on defense.

Yeah I'm basically at the same place where he'll be solid but I just don't see him being that dynamic to be worth a top-3 pick or whatever. He just seems a little overrated because 6'8-ish versatile forwards are generally the most valued type of player, and in this draft he's kind of the best option in that category by default but not that great in a vacuum. I'd rather roll the dice on the upside of someone like Pokusevski even before factoring in what you could likely get for trading down from Avdija's range to still get Pokusevski.

[BlazersBroncos]

I am not sure why people think he is a 4 on defense. If Cedi can play SF, so can Deni.

Ideally he would be a guy you start at SF but splits half his time as a small ball PF. A 15/15 minute split or something. But he has enough athleticism to not be a sieve on defense even at the SF spot IMO.

[nolang1]

I am not sure why people think he is a 4 on defense. If Cedi can play SF, so can Deni.

Ideally he would be a guy you start at SF but splits half his time as a small ball PF. A 15/15 minute split or something. But he has enough athleticism to not be a sieve on defense even at the SF spot IMO.

3 and 4 are basically interchangeable at this point. This lack of dynamism I'm referring to is more about how even in the ideal situation you're describing him (accurately IMO) as like a Harrison Barnes/Cedi Osman type of player rather than a point forward or a huge three-point shooter or someone with all-defense type of potential.

[Revenged25]

I am not sure why people think he is a 4 on defense. If Cedi can play SF, so can Deni.

Ideally he would be a guy you start at SF but splits half his time as a small ball PF. A 15/15 minute split or something. But he has enough athleticism to not be a sieve on defense even at the SF spot IMO.

3 and 4 are basically interchangeable at this point. This lack of dynamism I'm referring to is more about how even in the ideal situation you're describing him (accurately IMO) as like a Harrison Barnes/Cedi Osman type of player rather than a point forward or a huge three-point shooter or someone with all-defense type of potential.

I think he's not going to be a star player, but he's going to be a better Nicolas Batum which is still better than Barnes/Cedi. As long as he never gets overpaid like Batum he'll be considered a good pick anywhere past 3.

[BlazersBroncos]

I think he's not going to be a star player, but he's going to be a better Nicolas Batum which is still better than Barnes/Cedi. As long as he never gets overpaid like Batum he'll be considered a good pick anywhere past 3.

Ya, I think he will flourish if he can be the 4th option on a team. He has the talent to be a low end #3, but really his value will come as a super utility guy who can do a bit of everything. Batum was great, but he was a similar type. A elite, 'put you over the top' type #4 who was overpaid due to how well he fit in that role.

Keep Deni as that 4th guy and he can get 15/5/3 with great advanced metrics IMO. He is a guy who will do the little things that help you win. I see an elite role player who will likely get drafted by a poor team and pushed into a #3 or even #2 role and suffer. If a good team gets their hands on him, watch out. He would be the absolute ideal fit in PDX as that 4th guy after Dame, CJ and Jusuf. Enough handles to help them bring the ball up when Dame is pestered, good passing and very unselfish, hits the open shots from kickouts, dives for those loose balls and knows his role. A guy that doesnt make mistakes or force the issue but can get 20ppg on any given night within the flow of an offense.

The above may not sound like a lotto pick, but to me it certainly is. Its going to be about expectations. He is the classic case of a guy that will be good to great on a quality team but poor if a talent deprived squad takes him and force feeds him. This isnt Doncic, he is a glue guy.

[Revenged25]

I think he's not going to be a star player, but he's going to be a better Nicolas Batum which is still better than Barnes/Cedi. As long as he never gets overpaid like Batum he'll be considered a good pick anywhere past 3.

Ya, I think he will flourish if he can be the 4th option on a team. He has the talent to be a low end #3, but really his value will come as a super utility guy who can do a bit of everything. Batum was great, but he was a similar type. A elite, 'put you over the top' type #4 who was overpaid due to how well he fit in that role.

Keep Deni as that 4th guy and he can get 15/5/3 with great advanced metrics IMO. He is a guy who will do the little things that help you win. I see an elite role player who will likely get drafted by a poor team and pushed into a #3 or even #2 role and suffer. If a good team gets their hands on him, watch out. He would be the absolute ideal fit in PDX as that 4th guy after Dame, CJ and Jusuf. Enough handles to help them bring the ball up when Dame is pestered, good passing and very unselfish, hits the open shots from kickouts, dives for those loose balls and knows his role. A guy that doesnt make mistakes or force the issue but can get 20ppg on any given night within the flow of an offense.

The above may not sound like a lotto pick, but to me it certainly is. Its going to be about expectations. He is the classic case of a guy that will be good to great on a quality team but poor if a talent deprived squad takes him and force feeds him. This isnt Doncic, he is a glue guy.

I mean when drafting and looking for a star, he doesn't look like a lotto pick. But every single redraft you'll ever see has guys like that start slotting in at around the 5th-8th spots. I think GSW is another fit for him if they drop/trade back. Honestly people greatly underestimate how important/valuable that role is. I mean GSW won one of their championships because of Iggy who was more or less filling that role for them. I actually think Deni can work for Cleveland as well even though they have plenty of options to play though and could use someone that can play the utility role at a high level.

[King Ken]

I am not sure why people think he is a 4 on defense. If Cedi can play SF, so can Deni.

Ideally he would be a guy you start at SF but splits half his time as a small ball PF. A 15/15 minute split or something. But he has enough athleticism to not be a sieve on defense even at the SF spot IMO.

Cedi is a bad defender. He will be a sieve. He needs a protector for sure. His IQ will help for sure but it will look like Porter Jr at the 3 which is bad

[BlazersBroncos]

Cedi is a bad defender. He will be a sieve. He needs a protector for sure. His IQ will help for sure but it will look like Porter Jr at the 3 which is bad

Hedu managed a career 0.4 DBPM (One season he had a 2.4 DBPM which just defies the laws of nature) and IMO Deni is a better athlete, especially laterally. I think he will be fine. I expect something in the -0.5 to 0.5 DBPM range. He isnt going to be a sieve against most SF.

Porter Jr has the movement skills to guard SF, he just isnt interested and has the defensive awareness of a chair.

[nolang1]

I am not sure why people think he is a 4 on defense. If Cedi can play SF, so can Deni.

Ideally he would be a guy you start at SF but splits half his time as a small ball PF. A 15/15 minute split or something. But he has enough athleticism to not be a sieve on defense even at the SF spot IMO.

3 and 4 are basically interchangeable at this point. This lack of dynamism I'm referring to is more about how even in the ideal situation you're describing him (accurately IMO) as like a Harrison Barnes/Cedi Osman type of player rather than a point forward or a huge three-point shooter or someone with all-defense type of potential.

I think he's not going to be a star player, but he's going to be a better Nicolas Batum which is still better than Barnes/Cedi. As long as he never gets overpaid like Batum he'll be considered a good pick anywhere past 3.

That's kind of the point though. Besides the fact that more top-3 picks just end up being busts than most people seem willing to admit, players like Batum always find at least one team willing to really gamble on them to the point that they become overpaid.

[Chi town]

Givony on Deni...

Strengths
- Big enough to play PF but has the ballhandling, creativity and playmaking skill of a PG. At his best operating out of pick-and-roll, where he displays excellent timing and vision, allowing him to make every read and pass in the book. Aggressive offensive player who is in attack mode every time he steps onto the floor. Loves shooting pull-up 3-pointers in transition. Brings toughness, competitiveness and swagger.
- Was learning how to play without the ball this season in a more compact role at the pro level. Elite cutter thanks to his strong feel for the game. Capable of playmaking out of secondary ball-handling situations.
- Has made significant strides on defense. Covers ground well and plays with real intensity getting over screens, battling on the glass and rotating to protect the rim. Gets in passing lanes, blocks quite a few shots and rebounds well.

Improvement areas
- Inconsistent shooter who has converted just 32% of 3-pointers and 58% of free throws over a large sample. Mechanics have been tweaked repeatedly to the point that you rarely see him shooting the same way, sometimes kicking his legs out excessively or looking stiff with his release.
- Wasn't asked to do much in terms of creating his own shot in isolation, pushing in the open court or playing pick-and-roll this season.
- Struggles to create offense from a standstill. Right-hand dominant and much more limited when pushed to dribble or finish with his off hand. Reliant on changes of speed and using his body to create space, which might prove more difficult against NBA defenders.

Projected role: Big playmaker

--Jonathan Givony

[Chi town]

Batum is a solid comp but I see more potential as handler in PnR.

I think he can play 3/4 similar to MPJ but more in the mode of a playmaker and not a primary shooter scorer.

I like his fit with my Bulls and Coby, Lavine, Lauri as the 4th option facilitator mentioned above. This is what Otto did well when healthy for us. I think Deni has alot more playmaking and passing then Otto too.

[Chi town]

Deni has solid vision and passing chops but he is more of a scorer at heart

Interesting. Where do you gather that? What do you think he will score like in the league?

[Draft2020]

What's your thoughts about this kid?
which team should draft him? maybe T-Wolves?

Watch on YouTube

[MotownMadness]

What's your thoughts about this kid?
which team should draft him? maybe T-Wolves?

Watch on YouTube

I like him for the Bulls, especially with Coby White not being a pure PG and OPJs contract running out. He looks pretty dangerous finding guys in transition and would fill a need.