Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II

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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#441 » by FarBeyondDriven » Mon Dec 11, 2023 11:14 pm

clyde21 wrote:Rutgers - Ace Bailey / Dylan Harper
Duke - Cooper Flagg / VG Edgecombe / Isaiah Evans / Kon Kneuppel
Kentucky - Jayden Quaintance
UNC - Drake Powell / Ian Jackson
Arizona - Carter Bryant
Texas - Tre Johnson

it's not a great HS class either but Coop reclassing made it a lot better and it's better than the 23 class


love how you can confidently say it's not a great HS class a year in advance. You don't know 2/3 of the kids that will be on the McDonald's All-American team, who will reclassify, etc. There's going to be a dozen kids who come onto the scene from now until then you've never heard of or scouted. Just learn your lesson from the 2024 class and stop making these sweeping generalizations about draft classes before you've even had a chance to see who is in the class.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#442 » by babyjax13 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 12:28 am

I loved McCullar last year and had him at the tail end of the first round for quite a while before dropping him to be more consistent with the consensus. Ultimately, I think that was the right call. He's having an awesome start to the year, but my fear is that he ends up being a lottery pick. It's my fear because I don't think he is the caliber of player that should be a lottery pick. Could I see him playing into the first round? Absolutely. Lottery? Absolutely not. Although I also felt that way about Agbaji and I think he was actually a reasonably good choice given how he has played for us.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#443 » by clyde21 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:12 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:
clyde21 wrote:Rutgers - Ace Bailey / Dylan Harper
Duke - Cooper Flagg / VG Edgecombe / Isaiah Evans / Kon Kneuppel
Kentucky - Jayden Quaintance
UNC - Drake Powell / Ian Jackson
Arizona - Carter Bryant
Texas - Tre Johnson

it's not a great HS class either but Coop reclassing made it a lot better and it's better than the 23 class


love how you can confidently say it's not a great HS class a year in advance. You don't know 2/3 of the kids that will be on the McDonald's All-American team, who will reclassify, etc. There's going to be a dozen kids who come onto the scene from now until then you've never heard of or scouted. Just learn your lesson from the 2024 class and stop making these sweeping generalizations about draft classes before you've even had a chance to see who is in the class.


and if it turns into a better HS class i will adjust my analysis accordingly

until then it's a below average HS class...you need at least 25 five star recruits as a historical baseline for a good HS class...it's around 20 right now so below average...but better than what the 23 class which had like 16 or 17 five star recruits which was historically bad
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#444 » by clyde21 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:13 am

to put that in perspective

2023: 17 five stars (the 2024 draft)
2022: 25 five stars
2021: 29 five stars
2020: 30 five stars
2019: 24 five stars

17 five stars was just historically bad...hence the absolutely terrible OAD class so far.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#445 » by FarBeyondDriven » Tue Dec 12, 2023 1:41 am

clyde21 wrote:to put that in perspective

2023: 17 five stars (the 2024 draft)
2022: 25 five stars
2021: 29 five stars
2020: 30 five stars
2019: 24 five stars

17 five stars was just historically bad...hence the absolutely terrible OAD class so far.


oh, no wonder. Now it all makes sense! You put a lot (should be zero tbh) of emphasis and give weight to the opinions of guys writing articles from their basements for prospect sites. I don't, because they're proven to be mostly complete hacks.

Here's an example. Let's see some of the kids who they deemed a five star prospect in 2020 and why you would have claimed it was a good draft class:

Ziaire Williams
Caleb Love
Josh Christopher
Brandon Boston
Greg Brown
Moussa Cisse
Day'Ron Sharpe
Jaden Springer
Daisen Nix
Makur Maker
Keon Johnson
Isiah Todd
Bryce Thompson
Jeremy Roach
Sharife Cooper
DJ Steward
Christian Lander

(They had Moody, Beauchamp, Jaylin Williams, Mathurin, and Eason as 4 star btw)

none of these guys has amounted to anything. That's 17 out of the 30!!! And the majority of the rest aren't world beaters either which is why the 2020 class was overrated. And another reason people hyped this class was because people claimed Cade (and Green and Mobley) was generational (he wasn't) so there was apparently "elite" guys at the top. I know that's really important to posters on this board. Well, the experts were wrong about that too. Go figure.

You can do this exercise for every year in fact. You'll then notice a pattern. They aren't very good at evaluating prospects. So if they're wrong about the elite guys at the top, and they're wrong about more than half the 5 star rated kids, maybe it's time people stopped using them as a resource to defend their bad takes?
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#446 » by clyde21 » Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:27 am

lol - no one ever made the point that every five star will be great...I thought my point was a given that comparatively speaking this last HS class along with the upcoming one are two of the worst we've seen recently (next year's is better esp with the addition of Coop)...that is indisputable at this point. what these guys do or don't do at the next level is completely irrelevant.

but so far, this OAD class has been just as crappy as predicted by the HS rankings, so :thinking:
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#447 » by FarBeyondDriven » Wed Dec 13, 2023 8:43 am

clyde21 wrote:lol - no one ever made the point that every five star will be great...I thought my point was a given that comparatively speaking this last HS class along with the upcoming one are two of the worst we've seen recently (next year's is better esp with the addition of Coop)...that is indisputable at this point. what these guys do or don't do at the next level is completely irrelevant.

but so far, this OAD class has been just as crappy as predicted by the HS rankings, so :thinking:


YOU made point lol :noway: That you clearly judge draft classes by H.S. freshmen 5 star ratings. You literally said this class sucks (as will next year) because look at how few 5 star guys there are compared to these supposedly superiors draft classes that had more! That's in your post!!

I'm not even sure where you're even getting your rankings to begin with

24/7 has 26 five star guys not including Sheppard, Missi, and Carrington

https://247sports.com/Season/2023-Basketball/CompositeRecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool/

Rivals has 22 five star rated guys not including Bronny, Sheppard, Carrington

https://n.rivals.com/prospect_rankings/rivals150/2023?position=ALL%20POSITIONS

ESPN gave this class 18 five star guys. Knowing what little I do of you, I'm guessing this is what you've been basing your bad takes on this whole time. So, not even the frauds from drafting sites but the even bigger frauds from ESPN? :lol:

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/playerrankings/_/class/2023/order/true

It's a dumb premise anyway since it's based on dudes giving their opinions and writing articles for sites from their basements. Many of these types might just be the people you troll and hate on this very board yet you've determined that 5 star ratings from them are of extreme importance. And their opinions have historically sucked! It's provable! If they're dead wrong about 75-80% of their 5 star rated guys than why should their rankings carry so much, let alone any, weight? This would be like continuing to trust Kevin O'Connor's draft insight after he laughably put Killian Hayes #1 on his Big Board ahead of Edwards, Haliburton, LaMelo Ball, Vassell, Maxey, etc.

So you basically read an article from ESPN 12 months ago that this was looking like a weak class. Then you completely ignore and downplay the international tournaments that showcased a lot of H.S. kids (many of which weren't considered 5 star by ESPN) and international players. You haven't taken into consideration that several top kids have dealt with injuries (Bradshaw, Castle, Bronny) and haven't been able to see the floor. And finally, you've downplayed the performances many guys have put on film in the early going of this season showcasing what good prospects they are. All because you parroted an ESPN article, passing it off as your opinion that clearly can't be swayed, because then you'd be admitting you get your opinions from ESPN or that you're just really bad at this. Gotcha. I figured this all along btw.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#448 » by clyde21 » Wed Dec 13, 2023 7:32 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote:YOU made point lol :noway: That you clearly judge draft classes by H.S. freshmen 5 star ratings.


you should put down the sauce before engaging in discussions on this board - I'm not gauging the draft class, I'm gauging the HS class. You're in the draft thread that talks about HS players, not actually draft classes despite the title. try and keep up.

You literally said this class sucks (as will next year) because look at how few 5 star guys there are compared to these supposedly superiors draft classes that had more! That's in your post!!


yes - this HS class sucks, so did last years HS class, which was historically bad. what are you not understanding about this?

I'm not even sure where you're even getting your rankings to begin with


247: https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

19 five stars including the Coop reclassification.

are you gonna throw a temper tantrum every time someone says this HS or draft class sucks? you have 200 posts on this entire board and of that population is just you bitching about other people not thinking these classes are as good as what you think.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#449 » by FarBeyondDriven » Thu Dec 14, 2023 9:39 am

clyde21 wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:YOU made point lol :noway: That you clearly judge draft classes by H.S. freshmen 5 star ratings.


you should put down the sauce before engaging in discussions on this board - I'm not gauging the draft class, I'm gauging the HS class. You're in the draft thread that talks about HS players, not actually draft classes despite the title. try and keep up.

You literally said this class sucks (as will next year) because look at how few 5 star guys there are compared to these supposedly superiors draft classes that had more! That's in your post!!


yes - this HS class sucks, so did last years HS class, which was historically bad. what are you not understanding about this?

I'm not even sure where you're even getting your rankings to begin with


247: https://247sports.com/Season/2024-Basketball/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool

19 five stars including the Coop reclassification.

are you gonna throw a temper tantrum every time someone says this HS or draft class sucks? you have 200 posts on this entire board and of that population is just you bitching about other people not thinking these classes are as good as what you think.


no, I'm just going to mock people who keep stating it when they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be blowhards who are bad at evaluating prospects. If you didn't find a way to inject your awful opinion about this class to troll, in most of your posts I wouldn't say a word.

You're embarrassing yourself claiming you're talking about the H.S. class alone and not the draft class as a whole. You realize there are numerous posts from you and yours stating unequivocally this is a weak draft class. And your basis for this has been because it has a weak H.S. class. and your basis for this is because of how many 5 stars there are.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#450 » by The-Power » Thu Dec 14, 2023 3:12 pm

FarBeyondDriven wrote:no, I'm just going to mock people who keep stating it when they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be blowhards who are bad at evaluating prospects.

You should seriously take a step back here. You have built up zero credibility when it comes to evaluating prospects on this forum. Users that have been active over years have had misses (as does everyone including every NBA front office) but also hits. We have the benefit of understanding what each poster values, what they are good at, and where they have potential blind spots, and we can factor that in when reading everyone's posts.

You, on the other hand, have no track record whatsoever. You simply waltz into every single thread talking about how nobody here has a clue and present yourself as the person who knows best. But nobody will buy into that kind of megalomania until and unless you have proven to be good at evaluating prospects. And you haven't yet. At all.

The only post talking about prospects before 2023 that I have found in your posting history is this one:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:I wonder why Woodard isn't playing much. He's a smart guy and physical specimen. Maybe they already know what they've got and want others to get minutes to get more acclimated? Metu, Ramsey and others are looking great. We might finally have some depth!


Well, that sure seemed overly optimistic.

Your current tone is not only off-putting but also quite ridiculous considering that you have nothing to show for in terms of evaluating prospects. At least not on here. So how about you try to argue in good faith, provide arguments with substance, drop this childish attitude, and establish your credentials through constructive work. As it stands now, this board suffers from your posts. That's a pity because I actually think that you are capable of providing value and substance as you are clearly plugged in and passionate about the draft. You're just not doing it right now.

It's also not only you – this board in general suffers a lot from pettiness and combativeness. But it's become worse and you as a new user have decided to be part of the problem, and not the solution. I genuinely hope you'll re-consider your approach. We'd all benefit from that.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#451 » by FarBeyondDriven » Sat Dec 16, 2023 1:46 am

The-Power wrote:
FarBeyondDriven wrote:no, I'm just going to mock people who keep stating it when they've proven beyond a reasonable doubt to be blowhards who are bad at evaluating prospects.

You should seriously take a step back here. You have built up zero credibility when it comes to evaluating prospects on this forum. Users that have been active over years have had misses (as does everyone including every NBA front office) but also hits. We have the benefit of understanding what each poster values, what they are good at, and where they have potential blind spots, and we can factor that in when reading everyone's posts.

You, on the other hand, have no track record whatsoever. You simply waltz into every single thread talking about how nobody here has a clue and present yourself as the person who knows best. But nobody will buy into that kind of megalomania until and unless you have proven to be good at evaluating prospects. And you haven't yet. At all.

The only post talking about prospects before 2023 that I have found in your posting history is this one:

FarBeyondDriven wrote:I wonder why Woodard isn't playing much. He's a smart guy and physical specimen. Maybe they already know what they've got and want others to get minutes to get more acclimated? Metu, Ramsey and others are looking great. We might finally have some depth!


Well, that sure seemed overly optimistic.

Your current tone is not only off-putting but also quite ridiculous considering that you have nothing to show for in terms of evaluating prospects. At least not on here. So how about you try to argue in good faith, provide arguments with substance, drop this childish attitude, and establish your credentials through constructive work. As it stands now, this board suffers from your posts. That's a pity because I actually think that you are capable of providing value and substance as you are clearly plugged in and passionate about the draft. You're just not doing it right now.

It's also not only you – this board in general suffers a lot from pettiness and combativeness. But it's become worse and you as a new user have decided to be part of the problem, and not the solution. I genuinely hope you'll re-consider your approach. We'd all benefit from that.


not "nobody" just the handful of guys that spew nonsense post after post and have themselves proven to have awful takes and bad track records. And these are the very guys you're talking about that are combative and "part of the problem". So excuse me for dishing out as much as I receive. If I've called you out it's because I've seen a pattern. If someone is going to have nonsensical takes like this is a weak draft class and are a big boy or girl confident enough in that to put it on a message board discussing draft prospects, and has acted like a trolling know-it-all for years, they should expect some blowback and ridicule since they aren't shy about doing so themselves.

How is that Woodard take some gotcha? Wondering why young guys aren't getting a chance to see the floor on a young team is some hot take? I didn't say he or the others were necessarily starter worthy? I wondered why we weren't seeing them play after they had shown flashes in the SL and preseasons. We won the SL and our guys were flashing. Our parent club had awful depth and we spent draft picks on depth.

https://hailstate.com/news/2021/8/18/mens-basketball-woodard-ii-king-of-the-nba-summer-league.aspx

What is the point of drafting guys if they're never going to play? Gotta do better than this if you're going to take the time to go through old posts searching for gotchas 8-)

As far as track record, don't you worry. I'm posting enough to build a track record going forward to be judged on and welcome any and all ridicule coming my way when I inevitably fail. It's really all in good fun unless I'm dealing with obviously nasty trolls that the handful of prolific posters I've directed most of my attention towards are. I promise you, if you've been respectful with your tone and takes I've been nothing but the same in return. And if you're offended it's likely because finally someone is returning what you're putting out.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#452 » by Duke4life831 » Thu Dec 21, 2023 5:34 pm

Didnt see this posted on here yet.
Read on Twitter


2024 class (2025 draft class) now has guys like Flagg, Bailey, Edgecombe, and Maluach at the top of it. Still a ways to go, but that is some solid high end potential for a class a year away from OAD college/pro play.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#453 » by FarBeyondDriven » Fri Dec 22, 2023 8:49 am

Is 2025 as weak as people say or is it just the scouts getting it wrong per usual. At this time last season I wasn't excited about anyone from the 2024 class. At this time before 2023 I was only excited about Wembanyama and Scoot. I'm already excited about several 2025 guys. Maybe it's top heavy and shallow? Considering how badly 2024 guys have hurt their draft stock it's likely to have a decent returning class which should strengthen it. Combined with elite talent at the top, this shouldn't be considered weak.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#454 » by Duke4life831 » Sun Dec 24, 2023 5:24 am

Wish Edgecombe was a couple inches taller. With that said, dude is a top tier athlete with a very pretty jumper and is a beast on the defensive end.

The top guys of this class really showing out the past week. I’m getting pretty pumped for the top of this class.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#455 » by Duke4life831 » Fri Jan 12, 2024 11:39 pm

VJ Edgecombe’s announcement is set for Sunday
Read on Twitter


And also hosting Maluach in a week.
Read on Twitter


Scheyer going for a crazy class for next year.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#456 » by Colbinii » Sat Jan 13, 2024 12:28 am

How's 2025 looking compared to 2024 aside from at the very top?
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#457 » by clyde21 » Sat Jan 13, 2024 3:31 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:Is 2025 as weak as people say or is it just the scouts getting it wrong per usual. At this time last season I wasn't excited about anyone from the 2024 class. At this time before 2023 I was only excited about Wembanyama and Scoot. I'm already excited about several 2025 guys. Maybe it's top heavy and shallow? Considering how badly 2024 guys have hurt their draft stock it's likely to have a decent returning class which should strengthen it. Combined with elite talent at the top, this shouldn't be considered weak.


still too early to tell for the 25 HS class but top of it looks good with Dybantsa, Booz, Peat, Tiller, Harwell, Peterson...though it did take a hit with Coop reclassing into 24.

24 class looks mediocre to me, but better than what the 23 HS class was, Coop/Harper/Bailey would all be the top recruits in the 23 class imo.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#458 » by Duke4life831 » Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:13 am

VJ Edgecombe going to Baylor. Baylor has gone on a nice little run with these guards the last few years
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#459 » by crows2 » Mon Jan 15, 2024 5:31 am

Duke4life831 wrote:VJ Edgecombe going to Baylor. Baylor has gone on a nice little run with these guards the last few years


Yep good choice by VJ. Will get an opportunity to be showcased like George and Walter have the past 2 seasons. I personally thought Tre Johnson should’ve chosen Baylor over Texas for the same reason.
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Re: Future Draft Classes (Prospects) II 

Post#460 » by BigGargamel » Mon Jan 15, 2024 6:23 pm

Nice to see the top 20 littered throughout different schools other than half of them fighting for the ball at Kentucky or Duke. You got Duke, Rutgers, Miami, Baylor, Kansas, Texas, North Carolina, Indiana, Georgia, Kentucky, Alabama, Washington.

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