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BostonCouchGM wrote:I have a lot of respect for him after seeing how hard he worked to transform him body. He put himself in the best situation to succeed. If the Jazz are going to throw undersized chuckers out there I'd rather it be him than Sexton or Clarkson. At least this kid has at least some playmaking ability. He's just so bad on defense though which is a shame. Maybe coaching can get through to him. There's a lot of bad defensive guards but he often looks disinterested on that end with no effort.

Just wanted to point out Sexton had a 61.6 TS% last season and has been improving defensively every year.

Clarkson had his best playmaking season last year.

I wouldn't call either one chuckers.

Good for the Jazz finding another player at 16.

He fell in part due to a lot of box score watching and efficiency obsession. That said, its only SL but feels good to see this start as someone who was irrationally high on him.

reanimator wrote:He fell in part due to a lot of box score watching and efficiency obsession. That said, its only SL but feels good to see this start as someone who was irrationally high on him.

I think it was mostly just the usual concerns about his perceived archetype, especially that he didn't seem like a plus athlete (being kind). Turns out by losing a bit of weight he alleviated the latter concern, and away from the Baylor offense of a thousand guards, he actually looks like a legit point guard. I'm on record saying he had top 5 skill in this class, so it doesn't surprise me at all if he transitions to the point. It also goes to show how most people don't seem to see anything other than athleticism and tools in terms of ceiling outcomes. More people need to include skill in that determination. Guys with incredible skill and/or IQ tend to find a way.

archetype is still concerning. Really want to see his defense take some strides.

ankle injury was brutal. I hate to see injuries in SL. He'll be fine long-term hopefully but it looked especially painful

EvanZ wrote:

reanimator wrote:He fell in part due to a lot of box score watching and efficiency obsession. That said, its only SL but feels good to see this start as someone who was irrationally high on him.

I think it was mostly just the usual concerns about his perceived archetype, especially that he didn't seem like a plus athlete (being kind). Turns out by losing a bit of weight he alleviated the latter concern, and away from the Baylor offense of a thousand guards, he actually looks like a legit point guard. I'm on record saying he had top 5 skill in this class, so it doesn't surprise me at all if he transitions to the point. It also goes to show how most people don't seem to see anything other than athleticism and tools in terms of ceiling outcomes. More people need to include skill in that determination. Guys with incredible skill and/or IQ tend to find a way.

he wasn't exactly out of shape though. It's not like predicting a skinny guy is going to put on 25 lbs of muscle or a fat guy is going to lose 25 lbs and then projecting what that would do for their game going forward. He didn't look like someone who would or even could completely transform his body so dramatically. Even his biggest fanboys couldn't have seen that. The weight loss only serves to make him springier and quicker. He's still an inefficient, undersized scoring guard that plays no defense. And his smaller frame will have an even tougher time finishing at the rim now so it's not all positive. But I do like him more after the weight loss than before. He at least has a better chance of being an average starter as a PG than he does being a SG which is what 100% of the people who pay attention to NBA draft prospects thought he was. And of all the Jazz' guards I like him the most by a fair margin. I'd start him day 1 but I have a hard time believing they will.

Uh he lost 15 pounds which at his size is significant.


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Will say that I'm pretty concerned that his frame may not be able to support more than 190 pounds without him losing significant athleticism.

He's going to be a target for shot creating wings every postseason (especially since he's not tall and has short arms)

Hopefully he can play PG (though I'm doubtful) so the team doesn't have to have two targets out there at all times.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:Will say that I'm pretty concerned that his frame may not be able to support more than 190 pounds without him losing significant athleticism.

He's going to be a target for shot creating wings every postseason (especially since he's not tall and has short arms)

Hopefully he can play PG (though I'm doubtful) so the team doesn't have to have two targets out there at all times.

he can absolutely play PG. he just knocked it out the park in summer league as a playmaker/facilitator. yes it's just summer league, but he was arguably the best lead guard in the tournament and it's all we have to go on at this point and he killed it

Looks like a different player since he slimmed down.

He's mostly the same player I thought he was. Slimming down is going to help him get to the rim, but his passing and shooting were the things I liked about him the most anyway.

A very weird season for Keyonte.

I thought he had little shot in the NBA because he's a 6'3" SG with short arms, but he suddenly transitioned to PG and looked better as a passer than I expected.

But it became clear pretty fast that while he's trying hard to be a PG, he just doesn't have any natural feel for the position. He passes like a guy forcing himself to pass because he knows he's too small to play SG in the NBA. Whenever he would get a hot hand, his desire to pass would evaporate.

He was very good at drawing fouls this year, but had almost no other positives to his season. The worst starter in the NBA other than Scoot Henderson.

He and Scoot are very young, but it's kind of hard to see where Keyonte's upside is right now. 8% of his shots at the rim is just a massive red flag. Shooting 38.6% from the field and 33.2% from three is really bad. Defensively has huge concerns still in the long-run against switches due to his small frame and arms (though obviously smaller concerns than at SG). He's also a turnstile right now and helped contribute to the Jazz having the worst defense in the NBA... He tried very hard this year and played better than expected, but he was still really bad and it's not clear what his future in the NBA is.

HadAnEffectHere wrote:A very weird season for Keyonte.

I thought he had little shot in the NBA because he's a 6'3" SG with short arms, but he suddenly transitioned to PG and looked better as a passer than I expected.

But it became clear pretty fast that while he's trying hard to be a PG, he just doesn't have any natural feel for the position. He passes like a guy forcing himself to pass because he knows he's too small to play SG in the NBA. Whenever he would get a hot hand, his desire to pass would evaporate.

He was very good at drawing fouls this year, but had almost no other positives to his season. The worst starter in the NBA other than Scoot Henderson.

He and Scoot are very young, but it's kind of hard to see where Keyonte's upside is right now. 8% of his shots at the rim is just a massive red flag. Shooting 38.6% from the field and 33.2% from three is really bad. Defensively has huge concerns still in the long-run against switches due to his small frame and arms (though obviously smaller concerns than at SG). He's also a turnstile right now and helped contribute to the Jazz having the worst defense in the NBA... He tried very hard this year and played better than expected, but he was still really bad and it's not clear what his future in the NBA is.

it's his first extended play as a point guard. I disagree and feel like has some natural point guard ability. His size and athleticism aren't great but if HIS size and athleticism prevent him from being a starting point guard than what hope does Sheppard and Dillingham have? I think many of the concerns about him are warranted though. It's the reason why he didn't fall like people were saying, he went were he should have.

Uhh, I have pretty huge concerns about Sheppard and Dillingham as starters as well.

His Free Throw rate is pretty good even if his shots at the rim are lower. If he can become above average from 3 I think he will be fine. Probably more of a Jamal Murray type of PG if he hits his ceiling.

JMAC3 wrote:His Free Throw rate is pretty good even if his shots at the rim are lower. If he can become above average from 3 I think he will be fine. Probably more of a Jamal Murray type of PG if he hits his ceiling.

I mean, it's possible, but Keyonte's stats were also heavily inflated by the fact that the Jazz played a lot of 5 out lineups that were horrible defensively and created a ton of space. He had a really good offensive situation next to two star players on offense (Sexton and Markkanen, Sexton isn't a star because his defense is so bad but he was a high usage and high efficiency shot creator) and a system that purposefully sacrificed defense for offense and he still struggled badly to produce.

Though Murray was also playing with baby Jokic who was still really great then as well.