Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft

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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#661 » by bucknut » Tue May 14, 2024 7:12 am

CptCrunch wrote:Reed Sheppard is special because there are no prior comparisons for him. He is some combination of Kirk Hinrich, Donte Divincenzo, Derrick White, and late career Mike Conley. I think Reed tanked his reach to boost his running vert, which was just measured 42 inches.


Shephard is like Devin Booker light with Nikola Jokic's passing and brains........Reed brings spurs and nuggets basketball fluidity and ball movement and overall iq to the game. Reed is a championship player - INTANGIBLES best of the draft and it's not even close

He isn't a stiff corner 3 role player - he can dribble the ball fluid and is comfortable making reads

IMO he is a POP type of player - he would be a missing piece to help wemby contend
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#662 » by RollingWave » Tue May 14, 2024 9:40 am

greg4012 wrote:
Chalmers had nearly identical FRESHMAN stats to Reed with the big difference being the 3 point percentage (especially when adjusted per 40 minutes). Chalmers gets clear edge on steals.

I think Reed will be a better pro than Chalmers. I just think he's such a unique player type that it's important to point to the similar archetypes to identify and assess NBA viability. The NBA is as much or more about what you CAN'T do as it is what you can do.

If Reed isn't going to become a true lead ballhandling PG, then his archetype is Mario Chalmers with more dynamic shooting in the NBA IMO (and less wingspan to defend up).


Any player has a chance to fail, but the Chalmer comp I think is like a worse-case scenario for him, I should point out that we don't have quite as good of data sample back when he played, but I'm fairly sure Chalmer's PER would have came out significantly lower than Reed, as Reed has way better assist to turnover, and also more rebounds, they're kinda even in blocks/steals if you're talking about their freshmen year.

The "can he be a point guard" is obviously the difference between the ceiling of a "great rotation player / situational starter" to some sort of star level player. I think Reed has the feel / pace / passing vision down pretty well, the question is obviously is he one of those guys who just somehow gets to his spots even though it doesn't look like he's just breaking his defender's knees and ankels with insane cross-over and burst.

But even if it's just a connecter role player type, for what the Rockets need that seems quite great, yeah if you're really early in the rebuild you might want to think of someone who's ceiling seems more likely/extreme (granted if Reed can actually get to a PG level usage / handle while shooting like that we might be vastly underrating the ceiling. )
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#663 » by EvanZ » Wed May 15, 2024 6:23 pm

I’m really worried about Dillingham being 164 lbs. That is just way below NBA standards right now.
I was right about 3 point shooting. I expect to be right about Tacko Fall. Some coach will figure out how to use Tacko Fall. This movement towards undersized centers will sweep ng back. Back to the basket scorers will return to the NBA.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#664 » by brackdan70 » Wed May 15, 2024 6:28 pm

EvanZ wrote:I’m really worried about Dillingham being 164 lbs. That is just way below NBA standards right now.

Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#665 » by EvanZ » Wed May 15, 2024 6:41 pm

brackdan70 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:I’m really worried about Dillingham being 164 lbs. That is just way below NBA standards right now.

Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.


Ja is like 174. I’m. Are there any rotation players, let alone starters, at 165-ish in the league right now? I’m struggling to think of a single one.
I was right about 3 point shooting. I expect to be right about Tacko Fall. Some coach will figure out how to use Tacko Fall. This movement towards undersized centers will sweep ng back. Back to the basket scorers will return to the NBA.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#666 » by pad300 » Wed May 15, 2024 6:46 pm

EvanZ wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:I’m really worried about Dillingham being 164 lbs. That is just way below NBA standards right now.

Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.


Ja is like 174. I’m. Are there any rotation players, let alone starters, at 165-ish in the league right now? I’m struggling to think of a single one.



He's 19; he'll probably get the 10 lbs by the time he is 22. That said, I really don't like him skipping all the athletic tests... To me it confirms that he's not anything special by NBA standards, and if you're as small as he is, I think you need something athletically to hang your hat on in the NBA.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#667 » by brackdan70 » Wed May 15, 2024 7:38 pm

pad300 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.


Ja is like 174. I’m. Are there any rotation players, let alone starters, at 165-ish in the league right now? I’m struggling to think of a single one.



He's 19; he'll probably get the 10 lbs by the time he is 22. That said, I really don't like him skipping all the athletic tests... To me it confirms that he's not anything special by NBA standards, and if you're as small as he is, I think you need something athletically to hang your hat on in the NBA.

Yeah Ja is the exception. Even little guys like Darius Garland are over 190.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#668 » by BigGargamel » Wed May 15, 2024 8:07 pm

I am so off on both of these guys. I really don't see how either will be anything special. I wouldn't take either in the top 10, though they both will probably go there. I'd take Knecht over either one.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#669 » by RyugaFan » Thu May 16, 2024 3:16 am

There have been more successful 160 pound guys than people realize. It's also worth mentioning that Rob's pretty contact averse compared to Ja and is an elite jumpshooter.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#670 » by JRoy » Thu May 16, 2024 4:05 am

brackdan70 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:I’m really worried about Dillingham being 164 lbs. That is just way below NBA standards right now.

Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.


That’s Earl Boykins weight range.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#671 » by FarBeyondDriven » Thu May 16, 2024 5:06 am

pad300 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.


Ja is like 174. I’m. Are there any rotation players, let alone starters, at 165-ish in the league right now? I’m struggling to think of a single one.



He's 19; he'll probably get the 10 lbs by the time he is 22. That said, I really don't like him skipping all the athletic tests... To me it confirms that he's not anything special by NBA standards, and if you're as small as he is, I think you need something athletically to hang your hat on in the NBA.


He can do windmill dunks effortlessly. He takes off from the 2nd hash. This is pretty good athleticism

https://youtu.be/Ngo-PtmwYRg?si=G4DERDMt5x-MMLGK

His 3-cone, sprints and vertical would all likely be very impressive. I don't think people should fixate on his size and potential awful defense as much as they have and are. This isn't like Bones Hyland where he can't see the floor because of his defense. Bones doesn't play because he's not a true PG so he's way too small and bad on defense to be an off-ball scoring guard like Iverson was. And Bones isn't nearly as skilled as Rob either. If a team is drafting Dillingham in the lottery it's because he's going to be their starting PG and they don't really care about his defense. And if Rob is starting he's going to be a star. He's almost a lock to be Rookie of the Year. NBA teams don't care about defense like we think they should. Dillingham is an elite prospect for today's NBA. He's every bit the PG prospect Ja, Trae and Scoot were.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#672 » by RollingWave » Thu May 16, 2024 6:18 am

BigGargamel wrote:I am so off on both of these guys. I really don't see how either will be anything special. I wouldn't take either in the top 10, though they both will probably go there. I'd take Knecht over either one.

That's certainly a hot take at least :onfire: :onfire: though it might take a few years for this to play out.

I like Reed's combination of floor and ceiling better than Rob's, but there is a chance that Rob is like a borderline all-star type too, both of these guy's ceiling depends on how much of a point guard can they be in the league. but Reed is gonna be valuable even if the answer is "not much"
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#673 » by jpengland » Thu May 16, 2024 9:00 am

There few guys that I like in this draft class. But Reed Sheppard is a guy I love.

His game is tailor made for the NBA and he's going to help teams win games almost immediately.

I have seen some lazy Jimmer comparisons, which are way wide of the mark. Sheppard has defensive chops and physical abilities that Jimmer didn't.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#674 » by FarBeyondDriven » Thu May 16, 2024 9:45 am

I was hoping to see Reed in these scrimmages playing point guard because without that proof that he's capable he'll be falling into the late 1st on my Big Board. As is, being a sub 6' 2" combo guard with poor size and length, I just can't imagine he'll be on the floor much. Comps I have for him; Allen, Divincenzo, Hart, and White, all have better size and length, all are better defenders, and they all took time to earn minutes as backups, 6th men or 5th starters on cap strapped top-heavy lineups. Those guys imo have similar if not more talent than Sheppard. Let's see where they were drafted.

White #29 (2017 = elite draft class)
Hart #30 (2017 = elite draft class)
Divincenzo #17 ((2018 = elite draft class)
Divincenzo #21 ((2018 = elite draft class)

we know 2024 isn't an elite draft class at this point so that could account for Sheppard going higher but I'm struggling to find landing spots for him where he's guaranteed much more than 15 mpg.

Where do you guys see him going where that's a possibility?
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#675 » by BDM22 » Thu May 16, 2024 10:40 am

FarBeyondDriven wrote:I was hoping to see Reed in these scrimmages playing point guard because without that proof that he's capable he'll be falling into the late 1st on my Big Board. As is, being a sub 6' 2" combo guard with poor size and length, I just can't imagine he'll be on the floor much. Comps I have for him; Allen, Divincenzo, Hart, and White, all have better size and length, all are better defenders, and they all took time to earn minutes as backups, 6th men or 5th starters on cap strapped top-heavy lineups. Those guys imo have similar if not more talent than Sheppard. Let's see where they were drafted.

White #29 (2017 = elite draft class)
Hart #30 (2017 = elite draft class)
Divincenzo #17 ((2018 = elite draft class)
Divincenzo #21 ((2018 = elite draft class)

we know 2024 isn't an elite draft class at this point so that could account for Sheppard going higher but I'm struggling to find landing spots for him where he's guaranteed much more than 15 mpg.

Where do you guys see him going where that's a possibility?

You can't mention those things without mentioning that he's in another stratosphere as a shooter than all of those guys (especially when looking at them as Freshman), probably the most important single skill for a role player in today's NBA. If you can be an elite (and versatile) shooter and you aren't some massive liability on D, you can get on the floor. And while I don't think Reed is going to be as good a defender in the league as he was in college, he has great instincts there too. He's gonna be a guy that creates plays on the defensive end that turn into offense.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#676 » by DOT » Thu May 16, 2024 1:24 pm

JRoy wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:
EvanZ wrote:I’m really worried about Dillingham being 164 lbs. That is just way below NBA standards right now.

Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.


That’s Earl Boykins weight range.

Guys who weighed in under 170 the last 10 or so combines that have played in the NBA:

Terquavion Smith (165.2, then 163.2 the next year)
Keon Ellis (167.4)
Bones Hyland (169.0)
Kyle Guy (167.8)
De'Aaron Fox (169.6)
Kobi Simmons (166.2)
Marcus Paige (163.8)
Tyler Ulis (149.2)
Keifer Sykes (167.2)
Dennis Schroder (164.8)

So not unheard of, Schroder measured in at only .6 pounds heavier than Dillingham and has been a pretty solid player for a decade, Fox was only 5 pounds heavier and is really good, but it is pretty rare to find a guy under 170 pounds at all, so not much data to work with

It is a concern, but not enough to drop him that much in an otherwise uninspiring class, at least for me.
BaF Lakers:

Darius Garland/Cory Joseph
Klay Thompson/Shaedon Sharpe
Keldon Johnson/De'Andre Hunter
Evan Mobley/Tari Eason
Nic Claxton/Draymond Green

Bench: Leonard Miller, Jett Howard, Markquis Nowell, Kennedy Chandler, Day'Ron Sharpe
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#677 » by brackdan70 » Thu May 16, 2024 1:34 pm

DOT wrote:
JRoy wrote:
brackdan70 wrote:Yep that’s small. I mean there are exceptional players around that weight, but is he that guy? I am also worried and wouldn’t draft him in the top of the draft.


That’s Earl Boykins weight range.

Guys who weighed in under 170 the last 10 or so combines that have played in the NBA:

Terquavion Smith (165.2, then 163.2 the next year)
Keon Ellis (167.4)
Bones Hyland (169.0)
Kyle Guy (167.8)
De'Aaron Fox (169.6)
Kobi Simmons (166.2)
Marcus Paige (163.8)
Tyler Ulis (149.2)
Keifer Sykes (167.2)
Dennis Schroder (164.8)

So not unheard of, Schroder measured in at only .6 pounds heavier than Dillingham and has been a pretty solid player for a decade, Fox was only 5 pounds heavier and is really good, but it is pretty rare to find a guy under 170 pounds at all, so not much data to work with

It is a concern, but not enough to drop him that much in an otherwise uninspiring class, at least for me.

2 solid careers in 10 years. These are exceptions to the rule. It is very rare that a little guy that can be successful in the NBA. Maybe Dillingham is one of those guys but risking a high pick doesn’t make sense to me.
Fox is quite a bit longer.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#678 » by EvanZ » Thu May 16, 2024 1:40 pm

Fox was also nearly 6 pounds heavier which at their level of body fat is mostly lean muscle mass. 6 pounds of muscle is quite a lot on those frames. Bones Hyland also 169. Schroder is really the hope I guess.
I was right about 3 point shooting. I expect to be right about Tacko Fall. Some coach will figure out how to use Tacko Fall. This movement towards undersized centers will sweep ng back. Back to the basket scorers will return to the NBA.
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#679 » by DOT » Thu May 16, 2024 1:51 pm

brackdan70 wrote:
DOT wrote:
JRoy wrote:
That’s Earl Boykins weight range.

Guys who weighed in under 170 the last 10 or so combines that have played in the NBA:

Terquavion Smith (165.2, then 163.2 the next year)
Keon Ellis (167.4)
Bones Hyland (169.0)
Kyle Guy (167.8)
De'Aaron Fox (169.6)
Kobi Simmons (166.2)
Marcus Paige (163.8)
Tyler Ulis (149.2)
Keifer Sykes (167.2)
Dennis Schroder (164.8)

So not unheard of, Schroder measured in at only .6 pounds heavier than Dillingham and has been a pretty solid player for a decade, Fox was only 5 pounds heavier and is really good, but it is pretty rare to find a guy under 170 pounds at all, so not much data to work with

It is a concern, but not enough to drop him that much in an otherwise uninspiring class, at least for me.

2 solid careers in 10 years. These are exceptions to the rule. It is very rare that a little guy that can be successful in the NBA. Maybe Dillingham is one of those guys but risking a high pick doesn’t make sense to me.
Fox is quite a bit longer.

To be fair, of that list only Fox, Schroder, and Hyland were 1st round picks, Fox the only lottery pick, so it seems to me based on that limited data that if you're good enough to be taken high at that size, you will be good.
BaF Lakers:

Darius Garland/Cory Joseph
Klay Thompson/Shaedon Sharpe
Keldon Johnson/De'Andre Hunter
Evan Mobley/Tari Eason
Nic Claxton/Draymond Green

Bench: Leonard Miller, Jett Howard, Markquis Nowell, Kennedy Chandler, Day'Ron Sharpe
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Re: Reed Sheppard and Rob Dillingham - 2024 NBA Draft 

Post#680 » by JRoy » Thu May 16, 2024 2:04 pm

Pass.

No more tiny guards for my team.
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