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BostonCouchGM wrote:

stormi wrote:

BostonCouchGM wrote:
you should have just put your fingers in your ears and yelled "na na na boo boo, I can't hear you!" instead because that's exactly how you sound. Let me guess, born after 1995?

Bird is a tremendous passer and is a flashier passer, but Lebron is more efficient and technical. Superior career assist / turnover ratio. Much greater assist% (more of a floor general than Bird ever was). Bird has never averaged more than 7.5 assists per game. Lebron has had 3 seasons of 8+, a season of 9 and now this year averaged 10.

Lebron is just below Stockton and Magic and in that rung with Kidd, Rondo, Paul, Nash. Bird is a tier below.

you literally don't know what you're talking about. I'm guessing you never watched Bird play a game live and didn't witness the vast differences in era. Lebron is a high usage point forward in a wide open era, with no defense, unclogged lanes and shooters everywhere around him. Of course his assists numbers will be higher. Bird had two sometimes three 6'10" guys clogging lanes, who couldn't shoot, and they allowed defense. The fact Bird's assist numbers aren't that much lower than Lebron's speaks volumes. Magic, Kidd and Bird are on their own tier. Glad we could settle this "debate"

This is just false. If you think there was more defense played in the 80s, you don't know what YOU are talking about. Saying LeBron is a better passer than Bird is not sacrilege. And Bird was never on a tier with MAgic as a passer. Ever.

BostonCouchGM wrote:

stormi wrote:

BostonCouchGM wrote:
you should have just put your fingers in your ears and yelled "na na na boo boo, I can't hear you!" instead because that's exactly how you sound. Let me guess, born after 1995?

Bird is a tremendous passer and is a flashier passer, but Lebron is more efficient and technical. Superior career assist / turnover ratio. Much greater assist% (more of a floor general than Bird ever was). Bird has never averaged more than 7.5 assists per game. Lebron has had 3 seasons of 8+, a season of 9 and now this year averaged 10.

Lebron is just below Stockton and Magic and in that rung with Kidd, Rondo, Paul, Nash. Bird is a tier below.

you literally don't know what you're talking about. I'm guessing you never watched Bird play a game live and didn't witness the vast differences in era. Lebron is a high usage point forward in a wide open era, with no defense, unclogged lanes and shooters everywhere around him. Of course his assists numbers will be higher. Bird had two sometimes three 6'10" guys clogging lanes, who couldn't shoot, and they allowed defense. The fact Bird's assist numbers aren't that much lower than Lebron's speaks volumes. Magic, Kidd and Bird are on their own tier. Glad we could settle this "debate"

This is such a sad rebuttal omfg do better

my intl rankings

Deni Avdija
Aleksej Pokusevski

Killian Hayes

Leandro Bolmaro
Théo Maledon
Yam Madar
Paul Eboua

Sergi Martínez
Marko Simonovic
Abdoulaye N'Doye
Vít Krejčí
Tadas Sedekerskis
Nenad Dimitrijevic
Joel Parra
Gytis Masiulis

I'd draft the first 11, maybe more depending on how many go and if I got a late 2nd

Also some guys who played in NCAA but have already signed in Europe and can work as stashes are interesting, esp Yanni Wetzell, Isiaha Mike, Anthony Lamb, Justinian Jessup.

Yeah, mine are kind of similar. Why is everyone just now getting so much lower on Killian Hayes?

I think Vassell is overrated. Along with him changing his shot, he does not get to the line. He's also slow despite being light-footed on defense. I also don't think his body is going to grow into the type to guard stronger guys, like a Kawhi. I see him as a long term back up player, like Tony Snell.

I have always had Hayes basically there, so that hasn't changed, and no one is getting lower, NBA teams always had him more towards late lotto-teens

It's on the fans trusting some dumb media outlets

Fischella wrote:I have always had Hayes basically there, so that hasn't changed, and no one is getting lower, NBA teams always had him more towards late lotto-teens

It's on the fans trusting some dumb media outlets

Calling out the Ringer, huh? And the Stepien.

doordoor123 wrote:

Fischella wrote:I have always had Hayes basically there, so that hasn't changed, and no one is getting lower, NBA teams always had him more towards late lotto-teens

It's on the fans trusting some dumb media outlets

Calling out the Ringer, huh? And the Stepien.

The Stepien doesn't do mocks/predictions

And yes, the Ringer is a dumb media outlet with no real sources

Nice graphic design though, too bad most of their takes are others'

Fischella wrote:

doordoor123 wrote:

Fischella wrote:I have always had Hayes basically there, so that hasn't changed, and no one is getting lower, NBA teams always had him more towards late lotto-teens

It's on the fans trusting some dumb media outlets

Calling out the Ringer, huh? And the Stepien.

The Stepien doesn't do mocks/predictions

And yes, the Ringer is a dumb media outlet with no real sources

Nice graphic design though, too bad most of their takes are others'

nah Russilo is legit

clyde21 wrote:

Fischella wrote:

doordoor123 wrote:
Calling out the Ringer, huh? And the Stepien.

The Stepien doesn't do mocks/predictions

And yes, the Ringer is a dumb media outlet with no real sources

Nice graphic design though, too bad most of their takes are others'

nah Russilo is legit

He's a likable guy, but Russilo is still pretty old school in his draft evaluation.

doordoor123 wrote:

clyde21 wrote:

Fischella wrote:The Stepien doesn't do mocks/predictions

And yes, the Ringer is a dumb media outlet with no real sources

Nice graphic design though, too bad most of their takes are others'

nah Russilo is legit

He's a likable guy, but Russilo is still pretty old school in his draft evaluation.

he's not really a draft guy even though he can talk about it some, he's more on the general NBA analysis.

there don't really have anyone that's strong on the draft, KOC is their guy but don't like him.

I've admittedly seen very little of a lot of the top guys this year and so I'm not sure how he compares to the rest but I'm officially in on Avdija. That guy is an NBA player, full stop. I could see some teams trading up for him. No way that kid busts.

Fischella wrote:

doordoor123 wrote:

Fischella wrote:I have always had Hayes basically there, so that hasn't changed, and no one is getting lower, NBA teams always had him more towards late lotto-teens

It's on the fans trusting some dumb media outlets

Calling out the Ringer, huh? And the Stepien.

The Stepien doesn't do mocks/predictions

And yes, the Ringer is a dumb media outlet with no real sources

Nice graphic design though, too bad most of their takes are others'

Fisch you have a big board and mock?

doordoor123 wrote:I think Vassell is overrated. Along with him changing his shot, he does not get to the line. He's also slow despite being light-footed on defense. I also don't think his body is going to grow into the type to guard stronger guys, like a Kawhi. I see him as a long term back up player, like Tony Snell.

He reminds me of a thin, stretched out harrison Barnes, with a little less quickness with the ball

This is a weird thing, but I'm really in on Cassius Winston. He's only 6'1, but he has a 6'6 wingspan. I think he's a passing defender and with his high IQ I think he's only going to get better in that area. Also just a complete player who can play with or without the ball. He's not quick and has a weird jumper, but his pull-up three is legit and he's really skilled in terms of his point guard skills. Makes great reads, gets to the right spots, great pick&roll passing and I think he's going to be clutch. He gets his shot off pretty quickly despite his form too. He reminds me so much of Lowry without the quickness Lowry has. IMO he should be a first round pick and people are going to regret not taking him in the first round. If VanVleet is as successful as he is, I think Winston can be better.

Love me some Cassius too.

And has Tillman always been that heavy? 266 at the combine.

Deni Avdija is a PF at the next level. He isn’t a PG and not an SF. He as such a slow first step and his handle is only effective in transition. He’s not going beat opposing defenders unless they’re slower than him. At least with his skill level right now. In 4 years he can become a better player, but man he is so far away from being a player that is worthy of a top pick. IMO it’s not worth it. I don’t understand teams trying to trade up for him, it seems like a huge mistake unless you believe he can get better quickly.

He's a very attractive prospect as 4 though.

Do we have a "final big board" thread yet?

doordoor123 wrote:Deni Avdija is a PF at the next level. He isn’t a PG and not an SF. He as such a slow first step and his handle is only effective in transition. He’s not going beat opposing defenders unless they’re slower than him. At least with his skill level right now. In 4 years he can become a better player, but man he is so far away from being a player that is worthy of a top pick. IMO it’s not worth it. I don’t understand teams trying to trade up for him, it seems like a huge mistake unless you believe he can get better quickly.

smokescreens imo...