2020 NBA Draft II

[Duke4life831]

List of 5 star recruits under Roy since 2010 (the start of the big time OAD era)

Harrison Barnes (#1 overall recruit): Was viewed as the next great prospect, wasn't viewed as a top 5 pick after his freshman year so returned and ended up going 7th overall after his 2nd year.
Reggie Bullock (15th overall): Played in college for 3 years, went 25th overall
James Michael McAdoo (7th overall): Played 3 years in college, went undrafted
P.J Hairston (13th overall): Played 2 years in college, then went to the G League, then got drafted
Isaiah Hicks (16th overall): Played 4 years in college, went undrafted
Justin Jackson (9th overall): Played 3 years, drafted 15th overall
Theo Pinson (15th overall): Played 4 years, went undrafted. 12 of the top 15 players went OAD in this class, Theo and Justin were 2 of the 3 that didnt.
Tony Bradley (25th overall): OAD, 28th pick overall
Nassir Little (3rd overall): OAD, 25th pick overall
Coby White(25th overall): OAD, 7th pick overall

So in the last decade UNC has had 10 5* recruits. Out of those 10, 1 definitely helped his draft stock (Coby), 1 pretty much stayed even (Bradley), everyone else ended up sticking around for years and consistently saw their draft stock drop.

Dont get me wrong all schools have guys like this, Duke has guys like Bolden and Duval while UK guys like the twins and Dakari Johnson. But man UNC's track record is just flat out bad. Cole Anthony's stock is dropping extremely fast and no one is talking about Armando Bacot's draft stock right now, so add 2 more misses.

Everyone got drafted in the right spot. Roy didn't make them seem worse than they were, he simply didn't make them seem better than they were.

If they were drafted higher they would've been exposed in the NBA.

point still stands, if I'm a top recruit why would I go play for Roy if 1) he won't develop me or 2) put me in a position to get drafted high?

like Duke pointed out...only ONE player saw his stock improve under Roy, that's a big deal.

It is very well known that Roy has his players fit into his system, not have his system fit around his players. Compare that to K and Cal who build their system around their players. Now Im not saying this in a negative way for Roy his resume speaks for itself, he has done a fantastic job at UNC.

But when it comes to a place for high end recruits to shine, it isn't a great place. Would Stanley Johnson still have been drafted in the top 10 if he went to UNC? Or would he have followed a similar path too Little? I have a feeling it would've been similar too Little. Him being raw, he would've struggled fitting into the system like Little did.

I just think there are 2 drastically different schemes, Cal and K build their system around the star players while Roy has his players fit into his system.

[clyde21]

Everyone got drafted in the right spot. Roy didn't make them seem worse than they were, he simply didn't make them seem better than they were.

If they were drafted higher they would've been exposed in the NBA.

point still stands, if I'm a top recruit why would I go play for Roy if 1) he won't develop me or 2) put me in a position to get drafted high?

like Duke pointed out...only ONE player saw his stock improve under Roy, that's a big deal.

I'm saying those guys got drafted where they should've been drafted.

gonna stop right here because whether those guys got drafted "where they should've been drafted" is completely irrelevant. Roy's job for OADs are simple: develop them enough to translate to the NBA or help them get their stocks as high as possible...he's done neither for any of these guys except for Coby White. that's a terrible track record if I'm a OAD candidate looking at UNC.

[Marcus]

Everyone got drafted in the right spot. Roy didn't make them seem worse than they were, he simply didn't make them seem better than they were.

If they were drafted higher they would've been exposed in the NBA.

point still stands, if I'm a top recruit why would I go play for Roy if 1) he won't develop me or 2) put me in a position to get drafted high?

like Duke pointed out...only ONE player saw his stock improve under Roy, that's a big deal.

I'm saying those guys got drafted where they should've been drafted.

Roy Williams maybe doesn't increase their draft stock, he runs a very NBA similar system so it's easy to scout them.

Legitimate top 10 guys will go top 10 with Roy Williams.

Or do you think the reason McAdoo, Bradley, Pinson, Hicks, and Hariston never amouted to anything was because of their 5 time championship winning college coach?

Those guys should've never been 5 stars in the first place and we're obviously overrated in college.

I understand what you are saying Clyde, UNC has a track record of players not getting drafted at their high school ranking after signing with UNC.

I'm saying, guys like Ayton, Trae, Bagley, Morant, Zion, etc. thier stock would've remained the same going to UNC.

So if your a truly elite 5 star, Roy will keep you the same, because those players can't be hidden. A guy who is barley 5 stars (or not actually worth the 5 stars) will simply be exposed as who they are, in Roy's very pro style system (with lots of TV coverage)

Or do you think Roy Williams would've brought the stock down of guys like Ayton, Bagley, Trae, Zion, Morant, etc.?

Trae i'd be skeptical about. That whole thing even to this point has been perfect storm IMO.

The rest i'd have no real argument about. Maybe Ja because how the coach uses his PG or allows his PG to play means a lot.

[Roddy B for 3]

Everyone got drafted in the right spot. Roy didn't make them seem worse than they were, he simply didn't make them seem better than they were.

If they were drafted higher they would've been exposed in the NBA.

point still stands, if I'm a top recruit why would I go play for Roy if 1) he won't develop me or 2) put me in a position to get drafted high?

like Duke pointed out...only ONE player saw his stock improve under Roy, that's a big deal.

It is very well known that Roy has his players fit into his system, not have his system fit around his players. Compare that to K and Cal who build their system around their players. Now Im not saying this in a negative way for Roy his resume speaks for itself, he has done a fantastic job at UNC.

But when it comes to a place for high end recruits to shine, it isn't a great place. Would Stanley Johnson still have been drafted in the top 10 if he went to UNC? Or would he have followed a similar path too Little? I have a feeling it would've been similar too Little. Him being raw, he would've struggled fitting into the system like Little did.

I just think there are 2 drastically different schemes, Cal and K build their system around the star players while Roy has his players fit into his system.

That dosen't mean every 5 star should avoid UNC. It just means, k ow what you just said.

Prima donnas who need to be catered to to look successful will fail to meet expections at UNC. Lesser talented players will be exposed.

Add Roy Williams will do his job of winning games and championships. Even more championships since he's been at UNC than the great Coach K.

[Roddy B for 3]

point still stands, if I'm a top recruit why would I go play for Roy if 1) he won't develop me or 2) put me in a position to get drafted high?

like Duke pointed out...only ONE player saw his stock improve under Roy, that's a big deal.

I'm saying those guys got drafted where they should've been drafted.

gonna stop right here because whether those guys got drafted "where they should've been drafted" is completely irrelevant. Roy's job for OADs are simple: develop them enough to translate to the NBA or help them get their stocks as high as possible...he's done neither for any of these guys except for Coby White. that's a terrible track record if I'm a OAD candidate looking at UNC.

That is not Roy Williams job.

[Roddy B for 3]

It's the players job to be excellent, if they want to be drafted high and have long NBA careers with lots of money.

Roy Williams job is to win basketball games.

[clyde21]

I'm saying those guys got drafted where they should've been drafted.

gonna stop right here because whether those guys got drafted "where they should've been drafted" is completely irrelevant. Roy's job for OADs are simple: develop them enough to translate to the NBA or help them get their stocks as high as possible...he's done neither for any of these guys except for Coby White. that's a terrible track record if I'm a OAD candidate looking at UNC.

That is not Roy Williams job.

which is why OADs should avoid UNC. are you agreeing or disagreeing with this?

[Stillwater]

gonna stop right here because whether those guys got drafted "where they should've been drafted" is completely irrelevant. Roy's job for OADs are simple: develop them enough to translate to the NBA or help them get their stocks as high as possible...he's done neither for any of these guys except for Coby White. that's a terrible track record if I'm a OAD candidate looking at UNC.

That is not Roy Williams job.

which is why OADs should avoid UNC. are you agreeing or disagreeing with this?

Roy has never been like Cal and so yes oad that are raw and over hyped like Nas was should go to a lesser school that treats them like Kings to boost their brand even though the pressure on them if then they get picked higher won't be lived up to and they will be busts...it's about getting the job done with Roy. White had it most now that do go to UNC don't.

[clyde21]

That is not Roy Williams job.

which is why OADs should avoid UNC. are you agreeing or disagreeing with this?

Roy has never been like Cal and so yes oad that are raw and over hyped like Nas was should go to a lesser school that treats them like Kings to boost their brand even though the pressure on them if then they get picked higher won't be lived up to and they will be busts...it's about getting the job done with Roy. White had it most now that do go to UNC don't.

Roy really looks like 'he's getting the job done' this year huh?

[Roddy B for 3]

That is not Roy Williams job.

which is why OADs should avoid UNC. are you agreeing or disagreeing with this?

Roy has never been like Cal and so yes oad that are raw and over hyped like Nas was should go to a lesser school that treats them like Kings to boost their brand even though the pressure on them if then they get picked higher won't be lived up to and they will be busts...it's about getting the job done with Roy. White had it most now that do go to UNC don't.

Because K is increasing Matthew Hurts draft stock?
How about what Penny is doing to Precious?

Or maybe, Hurt, Precious and Little were overrated in high school.

[Stillwater]

which is why OADs should avoid UNC. are you agreeing or disagreeing with this?

Roy has never been like Cal and so yes oad that are raw and over hyped like Nas was should go to a lesser school that treats them like Kings to boost their brand even though the pressure on them if then they get picked higher won't be lived up to and they will be busts...it's about getting the job done with Roy. White had it most now that do go to UNC don't.

Roy really looks like 'he's getting the job done' this year huh?

Yeah the exception happens to the best of them when their 1 5 star pg and lottery lock misses half the season . Wtf man you know better.
The point is it ain't on Roy to be concerned with draft stock...and the man has been wildly successful despite very few of his players ever being great at the next level.

[No-Man]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cole Anthony currently? I had him #1 going into the season, not going to lie I may not even have him top 10 anymore. His athleticism really hasnt translated to college at all, and he is struggling to score from every area on the floor (his FT% has been good since his return).

I look at him like the Austin Rivers of this class. Son of former popular player, in high school looked great and athletic and was highly ranked. Went to college and the athleticism didnt really translate and raw stats was fine but clear the impact just wasn't there. Rivers ended up slipping to 10th and I think same happens with Cole. I also wouldnt be shocked if he ends up having a journeyman kind of career like Rivers as well.

The Rivers comp, as popular as it is due to people just skimming over their games and focusing on minor details, is dumb as all ****, sorry

[No-Man]

What's everyone's thoughts on Cole Anthony currently? I had him #1 going into the season, not going to lie I may not even have him top 10 anymore. His athleticism really hasnt translated to college at all, and he is struggling to score from every area on the floor (his FT% has been good since his return).

I look at him like the Austin Rivers of this class. Son of former popular player, in high school looked great and athletic and was highly ranked. Went to college and the athleticism didnt really translate and raw stats was fine but clear the impact just wasn't there. Rivers ended up slipping to 10th and I think same happens with Cole. I also wouldnt be shocked if he ends up having a journeyman kind of career like Rivers as well.

UNC lost every single one of those games too, not sure what's going with him, but that team in general is damn mess right now and Roy Williams more than anyone needs to answer for it

as for Cole, 34% from the field and 26% from 3 is just not gonna cut it for someone with his size and not necessarily a great playmaker...he's gonna have to find ways to be wayyyy more efficient if he's gonna get any mins in the NBA

i still kinda like him as a top 12 or 14 guy, the talent is there and you can see a lot of translatable skills and this UNC team is just a complete mess at this point, but yea he's def not as high as he was coming into the year.

Anthony is shooting 32% from 3 with a real high degree of difficulty in those attempts and shot-creation, up to 75% from FT, and his AAU shooting numbers are historically great

Shooting ain't a concern whatsoever

[No-Man]

This year has been a horrible look for Roy Williams. I just dont see how any high level recruit would want to go there at the moment. Either than Coby White, we are talking year after year of high ranked recruits going to UNC just to watch their NBA value plummet.

This is really stupid, Roy is old and obviously his system doesn't translate great (same can be said for a bunch of coaches in college) but he has helped improved guys' stock for the most part consistently over the last decade

He hasn't had any premium talent from HS, if anything the issue here is Roy and UNC's recruiting, Nas Little was just straight up bad and would've been bad anywhere really

This is a down year in talent for UNC, they tried to fix it with grad transfers and it hasn't worked out, obviously injuries are a part of it as well, but regardless, it happens to every program really, even the Kentuckys of the world get down years in recruiting and talent

Just bother actually going through UNC's recruiting classes and check if Roy has or not helped guys

They have 4 McDonald's All American coming in this offseason

[No-Man]

after Nas last year and now Cole 5* top recruits should stay the hell away from UNC at this point

especially after that turd Roy Williams blamed the struggles on the players and not himself (god forbid he doesn't have 5* all over the roster).

List of 5 star recruits under Roy since 2010 (the start of the big time OAD era)

Harrison Barnes (#1 overall recruit): Was viewed as the next great prospect, wasn't viewed as a top 5 pick after his freshman year so returned and ended up going 7th overall after his 2nd year.
Reggie Bullock (15th overall): Played in college for 3 years, went 25th overall
James Michael McAdoo (7th overall): Played 3 years in college, went undrafted
P.J Hairston (13th overall): Played 2 years in college, then went to the G League, then got drafted
Isaiah Hicks (16th overall): Played 4 years in college, went undrafted
Justin Jackson (9th overall): Played 3 years, drafted 15th overall
Theo Pinson (15th overall): Played 4 years, went undrafted. 12 of the top 15 players went OAD in this class, Theo and Justin were 2 of the 3 that didnt.
Tony Bradley (25th overall): OAD, 28th pick overall
Nassir Little (3rd overall): OAD, 25th pick overall
Coby White(25th overall): OAD, 7th pick overall

So in the last decade UNC has had 10 5* recruits. Out of those 10, 1 definitely helped his draft stock (Coby), 1 pretty much stayed even (Bradley), everyone else ended up sticking around for years and consistently saw their draft stock drop.

Dont get me wrong all schools have guys like this, Duke has guys like Bolden and Duval while UK guys like the twins and Dakari Johnson. But man UNC's track record is just flat out bad. Cole Anthony's stock is dropping extremely fast and no one is talking about Armando Bacot's draft stock right now, so add 2 more misses.

Man, this is just false, Barnes was in the convo for nº1, Cleveland was into him and Kyrie, and would've gone top3-4 had he declared in 2011, he didn't go pro due to the lockout, period

Again, people have this issue that they compare HS expectations to college performance, even if then the dude ends up being not that good, check out Barnes' NBA career, he was just madly overrated in HS, and has had just a solid NBA career, he still got chances to show what he got in UNC and went top7, would've gone top3 had he left as a freshman, his stock didn't suffer whatsoever from going to UNC

Bullock has had a nice career, went on the 1st as a non elite HS prospect, not sure what blame is there to put on UNC/Roy, he improved his stock at UNC

McAdoo is a scrub, another case of an overrated HS rank, has had 0 real pro-career, same for Hicks

PJ left the program, has not been a pro because he is a headcase, still went in the 1st after leaving UNC and his brief GLeague stint

Justin Jackson improved his draft stock at UNC, saying otherwise is just blatantly ridiculous, Theo Pinson was really raw, he improved his skillset, shooting and offensive outlook at UNC and he actually got a real NBA shot due to that, he was nowhere near a NBA player or a OAD regardless of HS rankings

White obviously improved his draft stock, Little didn't but again, still went on the 1st after showing how bad he really was as a frosh, he is just not good, Tony Bradley went somehow in the 1st round as a OAD even though he was nowhere near that talent of a player

You are leaving some guys out that also improved their outlooks due to going to North Carolina, they were not 5 stars obviously

Just pay less attention to HS rankings and more to how good the players actually are man, if you are being realistic, Barnes kept his stock clean, same did Bullock and Hairston, Jackson improved, Pinson, Bradley and White obviously improved, and the rest are just bad and they still got chances after UNC even though it was obvious that their HS rankings were just bad, and they also improved their chances/games due in part to being there.

[No-Man]

Everyone got drafted in the right spot. Roy didn't make them seem worse than they were, he simply didn't make them seem better than they were.

If they were drafted higher they would've been exposed in the NBA.

point still stands, if I'm a top recruit why would I go play for Roy if 1) he won't develop me or 2) put me in a position to get drafted high?

like Duke pointed out...only ONE player saw his stock improve under Roy, that's a big deal.

It is very well known that Roy has his players fit into his system, not have his system fit around his players. Compare that to K and Cal who build their system around their players. Now Im not saying this in a negative way for Roy his resume speaks for itself, he has done a fantastic job at UNC.

But when it comes to a place for high end recruits to shine, it isn't a great place. Would Stanley Johnson still have been drafted in the top 10 if he went to UNC? Or would he have followed a similar path too Little? I have a feeling it would've been similar too Little. Him being raw, he would've struggled fitting into the system like Little did.

I just think there are 2 drastically different schemes, Cal and K build their system around the star players while Roy has his players fit into his system.

Sorry... what system? K hasn't run **** for years and Cal runs a hot potato dribble-drive motion offense that is just trash and simplistic and ends up relying on whoever pops up as a talent eventually, like it happened with Shai years ago, and it may happen with Maxey now.

Roy has an outdated system on some aspects no doubt, he at least has one, some players fit it better than others but that applies to almost every college coach.

Stanley Johnson is bad, was still better than Little in college by a ton though, if he had not looked great in UNC's system (I actually think it would have fit him just fine, and the comparison is very simplistic between those two, Johnson had some real wing skills for a college player), it would've been partly due to the player being bad, like you do not change your system for mediocre players and UNC hasn't had that level of a star coming in that you are talking about in years, I guarantee you that they'd adapt their playing style to some degree if that were the case (way better than Cal adapted and used guys like Towns or Booker for example by the way).

Roy Williams wins more than Cal and K, at least lately, this is not about developing HS players into NBA players solely (which he has also done when there is some talent to work with by the way), also let's be fair to Roy and UNC, they haven't gotten that stud HS talent basically, they do change things slightly when they have that level of a guy (they did it in the past, and recently with White who was good), but no Zion or AD, or Kyrie, or whoever has gone to UNC

And don't bring up RSCI or HS ranks, let's talk about real talent here

If anything this is an indictment on Roy's staff ability to identify talent in HS, period

[No-Man]

point still stands, if I'm a top recruit why would I go play for Roy if 1) he won't develop me or 2) put me in a position to get drafted high?

like Duke pointed out...only ONE player saw his stock improve under Roy, that's a big deal.

I'm saying those guys got drafted where they should've been drafted.

gonna stop right here because whether those guys got drafted "where they should've been drafted" is completely irrelevant. Roy's job for OADs are simple: develop them enough to translate to the NBA or help them get their stocks as high as possible...he's done neither for any of these guys except for Coby White. that's a terrible track record if I'm a OAD candidate looking at UNC.

OAD? UNC has had really Barnes (would've gone top3 as a frosh, didn't leave cause of the lockout), Coby White (went top7) and Cole Anthony (gonna go top10) as OAD talents this past decade

Period, that's it, and still Bradley and Little went OAD and in the 1st even if they didn't have that type of talent and it showed at UNC (Bradley was a good college player but an obvious no-no as a pro)

[No-Man]

which is why OADs should avoid UNC. are you agreeing or disagreeing with this?

Roy has never been like Cal and so yes oad that are raw and over hyped like Nas was should go to a lesser school that treats them like Kings to boost their brand even though the pressure on them if then they get picked higher won't be lived up to and they will be busts...it's about getting the job done with Roy. White had it most now that do go to UNC don't.

Roy really looks like 'he's getting the job done' this year huh?

Have you paid any attention to the talent of this North Carolina team? is this for real?

They are having a down year, due to recruiting, guys finishing their college cycle (bunch of Seniors last season) etc, they have 4 McDonald's All American coming in and have had a great run the last 5-6 years

[No-Man]

North Carolina should be deep with talent next year, we are talking;

Davis-Francis-Smith
Love-Harris
Black-Johnson-Platek
Brooks-Sharpe
Bacot-Kessler-*Manley-Huffman
*not sure if he will continue

And better than that, most of those guys are likely to stay 2-3 years, North Carolina is probably going to get a championship and several FF appearances out of this incoming group, which is what you'd want

[clyde21]

North Carolina should be deep with talent next year, we are talking;

Davis-Francis-Smith
Love-Harris
Black-Johnson-Platek
Brooks-Sharpe
Bacot-Kessler-*Manley-Huffman
*not sure if he will continue

And better than that, most of those guys are likely to stay 2-3 years, North Carolina is probably going to get a championship and several FF appearances out of this incoming group, which is what you'd want

you were saying the same thing this time last year about UNC.

also, that was never the argument, the argument is whether a OAD candidate should choose to go to UNC.