Another Top U.S Prospect Headed to Europe

[Jonathan Watters]

This is a fascinating and multi-faceted topic. No easy answers here, those on either extreme of this argument are making themselves look a little silly.

On one hand, college basketball absolutely is an exploitative industry when it comes to young basketball players. "Amateurism" does keep young players ready to play at a high level from receiving high level coaching and constructive court time. This is a 100% indisputable fact that anyone on the pro-college side of things must acknowledge.

Because of this facade of NCAA basketball being something other than a professional basketball farm, the NCAA and numerous other parties are able to make millions off of these players. Say what you want about how kids will make their money eventually, that college allows them to mature as a person, that they are getting a free education - they are the ones performing on the court and people are paying millions to see them play. And these folks that are doing the work aren't getting the money. This isn't the way America is supposed to work. We are supposed to be the land of opportunity, right?

Furthermore, at this point in our country's history, one has to seriously question the racial undertones in all of this. We have the future players of the sport that most closely embodies African American culture being farmed out behind the scenes by a bunch of old, high society white dudes (those in power at the NCAA and the various colleges).

Now obviously that is a generalization in many ways - there are African Americans working at the colleges, there are white kids being exploited by the colleges. Nonetheless, is this the example we want to set if we are trying to show less privileged minorities that this is, in fact, the land of opportunity?

Keep in mind, the NCAA isn't just not giving these kids their fair share of the pie. They are limiting practice time and the opportunity to be coached by the best that they absolutely have earned.

I love college basketball as much as anybody, but an honest evaluation of the NCAA's role in high level basketball out to make you sick to your stomach. It is messed up, no way around it.

(will continue with other side of my thoughts in second post...)

[Jonathan Watters]

I really don't buy the typical arguments on the other side of the fence about the value of college education, the development of a work ethic, etc. Most of these players aren't receiving an education. They are getting by doing as little as they can, as they should be. They are there to become professional basketball players, which takes the same kind of dedication and responsibility as earning a college degree does. Either way, they are learning the life skills they need to learn to succeed. That is what an education should be about, and skirting the rules the way these institutions do is sending the exact opposite message.

At the same time, we need to remember that a human life is a work in progress. I'm not necessarily sure Sometimes kids may have the talent to earn top level coaching, but may be better served developing their games against players at similar stages of development. Is throwing Brandon Jennings into the fire at a level he's never even remotely encountered before really going to foster his development? It could be more traumatic than helpful, as we are all defined by our past experiences. For most of us, slow and steady progress is the way that we accomplish things. Why wouldn't this apply to basketball players as well?

And "most of us" would be my main argument for the NCAA's role in basketball. Most of what I have said above applies only to the top tier of players. John Wall brings the NCAA millions, your run of the mill recruit probably doesn't. On the other hand, a free education is probably fair compensation for a lot of D1 players, a great deal for them. The vast majority of prospects aren't ready to make 6 figures in their teens, and haven't earned access to the elite coaches/teachers of the game. They need an education, which they are getting. They need to grow into adults before they are ready to go live in a foreign country for 6 months out of the year for a decade. Maybe they aren't getting as much practice time as they could otherwise, but at least they are getting something in return if they choose to take it. It might be a nice compromise for everybody...

So I guess the question one has to ask is whether it is worth blowing up a system that has a lot of value for many so that a few can get what they deserve - all in the name of opportunity? It is a question our company has been grappling with in countless ways for a very long time.

My opinion is that we need to provide opportunities for the folks that are willing to step up to the plate and take them, but we can't do this at the cost of screwing over the ones who have earned it.

So like I said above, there are no easy answers here. I don't think it is fair for somebody like John Wall to be forced into a year of unpaid servitude, but I'm also not sure it is in Jeremy Tyler's best interest to go overseas.

(From what I hear, he's very immature and has struggled showing up to play on any sort of consistent basis. Now maybe he's grown up in the last year as kids tend to do, but it sounds like this is a scenario that Tyler might not be prepared for. Does Sonny V have Tyler's best interests in mind, or is he just ramping up his vendetta against the NCAA before he croaks? I'm not claiming to know either way, just asking the question...)

As far as solutions, I don't have much - but these are my basic thoughts:

I love to see a laxing of amateurism rules, so that Jeremy Tyler can be taught and influenced by legitimate basketball minds/presences, instead of those who would exploit him (not saying Sonny or Mr Tyler are doing that, just saying that this tends to happen a lot in these cases).

Through this, I would like to see an expansion of USA basketball into something that more than the elite can be a part of. Something that could stand next to the NCAA both before college and during summers that would allow players to retain their eligibility for college but would give the business of developing young, talented basketball players the above ground legitimacy it absolutely doesn't have at the moment but absolutely should have.

If would be in the best interest of all parties involved, but I'm not sure if it will ever happen...

[UGA Hayes]

I really don't buy the typical arguments on the other side of the fence about the value of college education, the development of a work ethic, etc. Most of these players aren't receiving an education. They are getting by doing as little as they can, as they should be. They are there to become professional basketball players, which takes the same kind of dedication and responsibility as earning a college degree does. Either way, they are learning the life skills they need to learn to succeed. That is what an education should be about, and skirting the rules the way these institutions do is sending the exact opposite message.

At the same time, we need to remember that a human life is a work in progress. I'm not necessarily sure Sometimes kids may have the talent to earn top level coaching, but may be better served developing their games against players at similar stages of development. Is throwing Brandon Jennings into the fire at a level he's never even remotely encountered before really going to foster his development? It could be more traumatic than helpful, as we are all defined by our past experiences. For most of us, slow and steady progress is the way that we accomplish things. Why wouldn't this apply to basketball players as well?

And "most of us" would be my main argument for the NCAA's role in basketball. Most of what I have said above applies only to the top tier of players. John Wall brings the NCAA millions, your run of the mill recruit probably doesn't. On the other hand, a free education is probably fair compensation for a lot of D1 players, a great deal for them. The vast majority of prospects aren't ready to make 6 figures in their teens, and haven't earned access to the elite coaches/teachers of the game. They need an education, which they are getting. They need to grow into adults before they are ready to go live in a foreign country for 6 months out of the year for a decade. Maybe they aren't getting as much practice time as they could otherwise, but at least they are getting something in return if they choose to take it. It might be a nice compromise for everybody...

So I guess the question one has to ask is whether it is worth blowing up a system that has a lot of value for many so that a few can get what they deserve - all in the name of opportunity? It is a question our company has been grappling with in countless ways for a very long time.

My opinion is that we need to provide opportunities for the folks that are willing to step up to the plate and take them, but we can't do this at the cost of screwing over the ones who have earned it.

So like I said above, there are no easy answers here. I don't think it is fair for somebody like John Wall to be forced into a year of unpaid servitude, but I'm also not sure it is in Jeremy Tyler's best interest to go overseas.

(From what I hear, he's very immature and has struggled showing up to play on any sort of consistent basis. Now maybe he's grown up in the last year as kids tend to do, but it sounds like this is a scenario that Tyler might not be prepared for. Does Sonny V have Tyler's best interests in mind, or is he just ramping up his vendetta against the NCAA before he croaks? I'm not claiming to know either way, just asking the question...)

As far as solutions, I don't have much - but these are my basic thoughts:

I love to see a laxing of amateurism rules, so that Jeremy Tyler can be taught and influenced by legitimate basketball minds/presences, instead of those who would exploit him (not saying Sonny or Mr Tyler are doing that, just saying that this tends to happen a lot in these cases).

Through this, I would like to see an expansion of USA basketball into something that more than the elite can be a part of. Something that could stand next to the NCAA both before college and during summers that would allow players to retain their eligibility for college but would give the business of developing young, talented basketball players the above ground legitimacy it absolutely doesn't have at the moment but absolutely should have.

If would be in the best interest of all parties involved, but I'm not sure if it will ever happen...

[UGA Hayes]

I really don't buy the typical arguments on the other side of the fence about the value of college education, the development of a work ethic, etc. Most of these players aren't receiving an education. They are getting by doing as little as they can, as they should be. They are there to become professional basketball players, which takes the same kind of dedication and responsibility as earning a college degree does. Either way, they are learning the life skills they need to learn to succeed. That is what an education should be about, and skirting the rules the way these institutions do is sending the exact opposite message.

At the same time, we need to remember that a human life is a work in progress. I'm not necessarily sure Sometimes kids may have the talent to earn top level coaching, but may be better served developing their games against players at similar stages of development. Is throwing Brandon Jennings into the fire at a level he's never even remotely encountered before really going to foster his development? It could be more traumatic than helpful, as we are all defined by our past experiences. For most of us, slow and steady progress is the way that we accomplish things. Why wouldn't this apply to basketball players as well?

And "most of us" would be my main argument for the NCAA's role in basketball. Most of what I have said above applies only to the top tier of players. John Wall brings the NCAA millions, your run of the mill recruit probably doesn't. On the other hand, a free education is probably fair compensation for a lot of D1 players, a great deal for them. The vast majority of prospects aren't ready to make 6 figures in their teens, and haven't earned access to the elite coaches/teachers of the game. They need an education, which they are getting. They need to grow into adults before they are ready to go live in a foreign country for 6 months out of the year for a decade. Maybe they aren't getting as much practice time as they could otherwise, but at least they are getting something in return if they choose to take it. It might be a nice compromise for everybody...

So I guess the question one has to ask is whether it is worth blowing up a system that has a lot of value for many so that a few can get what they deserve - all in the name of opportunity? It is a question our company has been grappling with in countless ways for a very long time.

My opinion is that we need to provide opportunities for the folks that are willing to step up to the plate and take them, but we can't do this at the cost of screwing over the ones who have earned it.

So like I said above, there are no easy answers here. I don't think it is fair for somebody like John Wall to be forced into a year of unpaid servitude, but I'm also not sure it is in Jeremy Tyler's best interest to go overseas.

(From what I hear, he's very immature and has struggled showing up to play on any sort of consistent basis. Now maybe he's grown up in the last year as kids tend to do, but it sounds like this is a scenario that Tyler might not be prepared for. Does Sonny V have Tyler's best interests in mind, or is he just ramping up his vendetta against the NCAA before he croaks? I'm not claiming to know either way, just asking the question...)

As far as solutions, I don't have much - but these are my basic thoughts:

I love to see a laxing of amateurism rules, so that Jeremy Tyler can be taught and influenced by legitimate basketball minds/presences, instead of those who would exploit him (not saying Sonny or Mr Tyler are doing that, just saying that this tends to happen a lot in these cases).

Through this, I would like to see an expansion of USA basketball into something that more than the elite can be a part of. Something that could stand next to the NCAA both before college and during summers that would allow players to retain their eligibility for college but would give the business of developing young, talented basketball players the above ground legitimacy it absolutely doesn't have at the moment but absolutely should have.

If would be in the best interest of all parties involved, but I'm not sure if it will ever happen...

Its definitely a complex problem. I'm not sure there is a great way to share the pie with college players since there are so many of them and they contribute a disproportionate amount to winning. Anything short of getting rid of amateurism is going to fall short. I think alot of these issues would be moot under a minor league system except that alot of college sports popularity is rooted in the fact that these guys don't paid. Its a lot easier to support players who are " altruistic".

The issue of development is probably dependent on the player. Some guys are like LeBron and show startling maturity. Others are like Kwame Brown and probably need to be babied for a little while lest they go nuts under pressure. Depending where you fall on that spectrum will determine if Europe is right. At least previously there was an alternative to the NCAA system in the NBA. The NBA decided to cut that option off. I'm certainly don't know much about law but It seems to me like the NBA and college ball are engaged in collusion that is fairly unethical.

[BubbaTee]

And "most of us" would be my main argument for the NCAA's role in basketball. Most of what I have said above applies only to the top tier of players. John Wall brings the NCAA millions, your run of the mill recruit probably doesn't. On the other hand, a free education is probably fair compensation for a lot of D1 players, a great deal for them. The vast majority of prospects aren't ready to make 6 figures in their teens, and haven't earned access to the elite coaches/teachers of the game. They need an education, which they are getting. They need to grow into adults before they are ready to go live in a foreign country for 6 months out of the year for a decade. Maybe they aren't getting as much practice time as they could otherwise, but at least they are getting something in return if they choose to take it. It might be a nice compromise for everybody...

The thing is, though, the system that was in place pre-age rule was already doing a fairly good job of self-policing who was ready for the pro game and who was only ready for college. I'd stack the percentage of HS to NBA players, drafted or undrafted, who have had a career of average length or longer against any grade of college players, drafted or undrafted. Those teenagers who weren't ready were already being weeded out.

Secondly, there are pro avenues for players to go through outside the NBA - Europe, NBDL, CBA, ABA, USBL, China, Japan, etc. Jamario Moon, Matt Barnes, Anthony Parker, Yuta Tabuse - if you can play there's a good chance the NBA will find you, wherever you are. Heck, they found Rafer Alston in And1.

Thirdly, with thousands of dollars in one's back pocket it's not difficult at all to get a college education. In fact, thousands of people get a college education every year with much less money than any pro basketball player makes.

[wushui]

Its definitely a complex problem. I'm not sure there is a great way to share the pie with college players since there are so many of them and they contribute a disproportionate amount to winning. Anything short of getting rid of amateurism is going to fall short. I think alot of these issues would be moot under a minor league system except that alot of college sports popularity is rooted in the fact that these guys don't paid. Its a lot easier to support players who are " altruistic".

The issue of development is probably dependent on the player. Some guys are like LeBron and show startling maturity. Others are like Kwame Brown and probably need to be babied for a little while lest they go nuts under pressure. Depending where you fall on that spectrum will determine if Europe is right. At least previously there was an alternative to the NCAA system in the NBA. The NBA decided to cut that option off. I'm certainly don't know much about law but It seems to me like the NBA and college ball are engaged in collusion that is fairly unethical.

Not necessarily. Not all people who play college sports do so to become a pro. Most college-athletes use their athletic scholarships to cover the expenses of getting a good education and a degree one day so they can enter the workforce like the rest of us.

[BadWolf]

Anyone knows if he signed in Israel?
There was some report about Olimpija Ljubljana have some interest/talks?

[Mumbles]

Anyone knows if he signed in Israel?
There was some report about Olimpija Ljubljana have some interest/talks?

\

heh, I'm guessing he has not signed in Isreal if there are multiple reports of him looking at Olimpija.

BTW another HS prospect has decided to go overseas. This time it is Latavious Willaims, former Memphis recruit.

ttp://www.usatoday.com/sports/college/mensbasketball/2009-07-22-memphis-williams-overseas_N.htm

[BadWolf]

Olimpija is a solid destination.
Strong regional NLB league, some Euroleague, probably just round 1, solid big man competition (if they stay), coach is a bit iffy, but should develop team game, fundamentals.
Olimpija is also a solid launching team for NBA with plenty of current and former NBA players coming from their ranks.
A 400000$ buyout after year 2? Great deal for the team and a player.