The Trial/City Rolls Over Thread

[fivas14]

Denver fan here. Bennett is worse than scum. Stern is a for going along with this BS. I can't imagine the league without the Sonics.

This has to suck... Sorry guys. Hopefully you will continue to support the players on this team.

You can't call Bennett scum because he wanted to give his city a basketball team.

Say What? We certainly can call him a scum.

Bennet is SCUM!

How's that.

I was more talking about non-Sonics fans.

[Sweezo]

You can't call Bennett scum because he wanted to give his city a basketball team.

You're right. Why call him 'scum' when ****, ****, ****, worthless piece of dog ****, and *** are all perfectly applicable?

[Bulltalk]

Like I said before, this is Michael Moore documentary material: Sports in America.

I kinda passed over that point before, but it's a legit one...Moore's documentaries have focused on very blue collar issues like the loss of manufacturing jobs, gun rights, health care, and going to war. And here we have a situation where a very blue collar form of entertainment has been ripped away from the community by a dishonest government and a couple of billionaires. Throw in some parts about how the Packers thrive while being publicly owned and bingo...you've got a movie.

Don't take this as defending or supporting the man, because while I find him entertainment I certainly believes he's keen on portraying the facts in a way that supports whatever position he's arguing and lean towards the sensationalistic, but I could see him giving his take on this subject. And I could see it being a giant middle finger to the owners and the politicians.

I meant it for just the reasons you well described. I honestly think it would be great. The material is there. If you could just find a way to contextualize in such a way for wide audience appeal, it would be better than 50/50 on being a financial hit with his rep. I mean, everything's in it. Even the quotes are priceless.

[fivas14]

You can't call Bennett scum because he wanted to give his city a basketball team.

You're right. Why call him 'scum' when ****, ****, ****, worthless piece of dog ****, and **** are all perfectly applicable?

I'm not going to argue, because I don't know how it feels.

[ljp24]

This is nuts. It's like the perfect storm of **** behavior from all parties involved. I can only imagine how I would feel if the Celtics were to suddenly become the St. Louis Celtics. I used to be a big Sonics fan when they had Kemp and Payton, and remember rooting for them to take down the Bulls in the finals. You've certainly had some great teams and some great players pass through your organization.

What are you talking about? The Celtics have a ZERO chance of EVER MOVING unless the NBA goes to space.

[slick_watts]

it's a sad day for seattle.. i personally think it's a little silly, though, to categorically refuse to support another nba team should one be purchased by a steve ballmer lead group and moved to the area. there is a big difference between the duplicious 'theft' of an nba team from a feasible economic situation (seattle) versus moving a team from a struggling economic situation (memphis). the whole point of of this lawsuit and the public outcry was due to the manner in which clay bennett acquired and took this team; secondary to the failings of the city and state governments to solve this problem when it was ripe for solving.

i don't live in seattle, and haven't for some time. despite that i think it's shortsighted to view this as a crushing loss, and vows to 'never watch the nba' again or to 'not support another team' are kind of childish to me. it's maddening how the nba will probably make out best out of everyone in this whole situation, but it is what it is.

this could have ended a lot, lot worse. david stern is vindictive and there is no doubt in my mind he meant it when he said that basketball in seattle was done if this whole business wasn't settled to the nba's liking. i haven't had the pleasure of watching the sonics for about ten years, and if the common viewpoint here is 'this team or bust' then i guess i'm in the minority because a good chance to get nba basketball in seattle for the long haul is worth more to me than no chance -- and face it, there was little chance of us keeping this team to begin with.

[NateMustGo]

Ya I'm not a Sonic fan and bennett is SCUM!!!

[Bulltalk]

it's a sad day for seattle.. i personally think it's a little silly, though, to categorically refuse to support another nba team should one be purchased by a steve ballmer lead group and moved to the area. there is a big difference between the duplicious 'theft' of an nba team from a feasible economic situation (seattle) versus moving a team from a struggling economic situation (memphis). the whole point of of this lawsuit and the public outcry was due to the manner in which clay bennett acquired and took this team; secondary to the failings of the city and state governments to solve this problem when it was ripe for solving.

i don't live in seattle, and haven't for some time. despite that i think it's shortsighted to view this as a crushing loss, and vows to 'never watch the nba' again or to 'not support another team' are kind of childish to me. it's maddening how the nba will probably make out best out of everyone in this whole situation, but it is what it is.

this could have ended a lot, lot worse. david stern is vindictive and there is no doubt in my mind he meant it when he said that basketball in seattle was done if this whole business wasn't settled to the nba's liking. i haven't had the pleasure of watching the sonics for about ten years, and if the common viewpoint here is 'this team or bust' then i guess i'm in the minority because a good chance to get nba basketball in seattle for the long haul is worth more to me than no chance -- and face it, there was little chance of us keeping this team to begin with.

You don't seem to get it, though. We may NEVER get another team again. There's no guarantee. Whatsoever. The city didn't even get that out of the league in the "compromise".

If the city hadn't compromised, we well might have won the case. With the team here for two more years, Ballmer and new ownership in the wings, more time to make the arena renovation possible (especially with new politicians), Schultz's lawsuit on deck...the Sonics might remain. We have leverage. We have NONE now.

[TheUrbanZealot]

Ok, let's take a look at the situation from an objective, logical standpoint

- Seattle was gone the second Bennett bought the team
- The city basically had 2 options, not settle and wait 2 years for a sale that Bennett REPEATEDLY said would never happen, happen (selling back to local ownership), or settle and get SOMETHING as opposed to NOTHING.
- By getting SOMETHING, they allow that SOMETHING to go towards getting a new arena.

You guys, this is not brain surgery. The NBA is about money. Stern is about money. For a team to be in Seattle, we need a new arena, PERIOD. There is no way around it.

Not that I'm trying to play devil's advocate, I'd say the city did pretty damn good by getting 50 million more than they were initially offered, and can use that money towards renovating Key. EXTRA PRESSURE is put on Stern because he knows Clay will lose money if he doesn't honor the NBA a franchise. While I know many of us are disappointed, there IS a bright side in all this, and if nothing else, we are closer to a long term solution than we were yesterday (marred in uncertainty).

I seriously don't know why everyone is bashing Nickels? I'm not even a fan of his, but I have to admit, if he was able to get 75 million when he was not only going to get only a few million in rent and the Sonics leaving anyways and more court time and more drama and more media and and and you get the point... Sounds to me like he came up pretty darn good.

People on here are being hypersensitive and overreactive. I understand the psychology of sports, the connection to a team- hell, I've been following the Sonics since I met Dale Ellis at Longacres race track when I was 10, but at least I realize it's just a sport...

I'm sure this won't quell any1's anger, but we just have to look at the bright side of this. We have a heavyweight now of Allen's range in Ballmer, now we just need to expedite the process...

[Sweezo]

I fully agree that it's not a mature reaction to say "I'm done," but goddammit I have spent a lot of time and money on this franchise. I have pictures of me as a newborn wearing a 1979 championship shirt, and memories of buying box after box of **** basketball cards with my just to get Kemp and GP cards. Memories of sitting around a radio listening to game after game because I lived in a rural area where cable didn't exist, and of the first time where I was finally out on my own and able to actually pay for a game and see it live. Memories of saving change to buy a hat or a stupid pennant to put on my wall.

This franchise meant a lot to me when I was a kid. All those memories have been delegitimized for the sake of greed, and lease disputes, and luxury box revenues. **** it. I've invested a lot of energy and time into this franchise, and all I have to show for it is a whole hell of a lot of disappointment and the knowledge that as close as this team got to winning a championship I never got to see them do it.

I may sound like a petulant child, but I'm an adult now...I still follow the team because of the nostalgia. I don't have to have sports in my life to entertain me...I have many other options. There's no reason for me to support another NBA franchise. If Ballmer buys a team, I wish him luck and hope people support it because it does the community no good to let another team fail. But I'll be doing something else...I have no interest in supporting it.

[Bulltalk]

Ok, let's take a look at the situation from an objective, logical standpoint

- Seattle was gone the second Bennett bought the team
- The city basically had 2 options, not settle and wait 2 years for a sale that Bennett REPEATEDLY said would never happen, happen (selling back to local ownership), or settle and get SOMETHING as opposed to NOTHING.
- By getting SOMETHING, they allow that SOMETHING to go towards getting a new arena.

You guys, this is not brain surgery. The NBA is about money. Stern is about money. For a team to be in Seattle, we need a new arena, PERIOD. There is no way around it.

Not that I'm trying to play devil's advocate, I'd say the city did pretty damn good by getting 50 million more than they were initially offered, and can use that money towards renovating Key. EXTRA PRESSURE is put on Stern because he knows Clay will lose money if he doesn't honor the NBA a franchise. While I know many of us are disappointed, there IS a bright side in all this, and if nothing else, we are closer to a long term solution than we were yesterday (marred in uncertainty).

I seriously don't know why everyone is bashing Nickels? I'm not even a fan of his, but I have to admit, if he was able to get 75 million when he was not only going to get only a few million in rent and the Sonics leaving anyways and more court time and more drama and more media and and and you get the point... Sounds to me like he came up pretty darn good.

People on here are being hypersensitive and overreactive. I understand the psychology of sports, the connection to a team- hell, I've been following the Sonics since I met Dale Ellis at Longacres race track when I was 10, but at least I realize it's just a sport...

I'm sure this won't quell any1's anger, but we just have to look at the bright side of this. We have a heavyweight now of Allen's range in Ballmer, now we just need to expedite the process...

I disagree with this. You have no idea. Two years is a lot of time. Remember, it was Stern himself who said that a remodelled Key Arena was just fine for professional basketball. What if they won this case, and then Schultz won his? What if they put the arena remodel package together with new politicians? What if the PR swung wildly in the Sonics favor and put pressure on Stern and the league?

We lost a chance at this gamble. And it was a decent gamble.

[slick_watts]

You don't seem to get it, though. We may NEVER get another team again. There's no guarantee. Whatsoever. The city didn't even get that out of the league in the "compromise".

If the city hadn't compromised, we well might have won the case. With the team here for two more years, Ballmer and new ownership in the wings, more time to make the arena renovation possible (especially with new politicians), Schultz's lawsuit on deck...the Sonics might remain. We have leverage. We have NONE now.

i do 'get it'. as i stated, the chance (high probablity i would guess, the way some teams are doing lately) of basketball remaining in seattle beats ZERO chance for me.

if the city won the case and enforced the lease, it would have been win or go home for good. stern and the nba would not have supported the nba coming back here if the city bled the sonics for two years, and despite what you've read from yarmuth and the espn luminary lawyers, recession is very tricky, especially in an old sale. schultz's lawsuit was a huge long shot. others may have been comfortable wagering losing nba basketball forever on HOWARD SCHULTZ (who, might i remind everyone, got us all here in the first place), but i certainly would not have been. if you think you're unhappy now, imagine how unhappy you'd be if the sonics left with no support from the nba to return.

i know it's hard to have perspective in this situation, and perhaps it's easier for me since i don't actually live in seattle anymore. but reading between the lines, if the city and state gov't doesn't mess up with the arena funding, it's fairly likely basketball will be in seattle down the road.

[almost famous]

You can't call Bennett scum because he wanted to give his city a basketball team.

I most certainly can when he does it at the expense of another city. Not only that, but he lied about it the whole time. It's a crime. But don't worry, I didn't call him scum. I said he's WORSE THAN SCUM.

[Sweezo]

Even with the arena funding...they were still being asked to build a ridiculously expensive arena, despite having an arena that isn't the dump it's often made out to be, while knowing a large section of the public didn't want to pay for a new arena so soon after paying for two other arenas when the economy kind of on the skids at the moment.

I know a lot of people really blame the legislature, but I'm not entirely on board with that. Hard to fault the legislature when OKC wasn't being asked to suddenly build anything like what Bennett was proposing in Renton.

[cb4_89]

will you guys still follow the team?

[Bulltalk]

You don't seem to get it, though. We may NEVER get another team again. There's no guarantee. Whatsoever. The city didn't even get that out of the league in the "compromise".

If the city hadn't compromised, we well might have won the case. With the team here for two more years, Ballmer and new ownership in the wings, more time to make the arena renovation possible (especially with new politicians), Schultz's lawsuit on deck...the Sonics might remain. We have leverage. We have NONE now.

i do 'get it'. as i stated, the chance (high probablity i would guess, the way some teams are doing lately) of basketball remaining in seattle beats ZERO chance for me.

if the city won the case and enforced the lease, it would have been win or go home for good. stern and the nba would not have supported the nba coming back here if the city bled the sonics for two years, and despite what you've read from yarmuth and the espn luminary lawyers, recession is very tricky, especially in an old sale. schultz's lawsuit was a huge long shot. others may have been comfortable wagering losing nba basketball forever on HOWARD SCHULTZ (who, might i remind everyone, got us all here in the first place), but i certainly would not have been. if you think you're unhappy now, imagine how unhappy you'd be if the sonics left with no support from the nba to return.

i know it's hard to have perspective in this situation, and perhaps it's easier for me since i don't actually live in seattle anymore. but reading between the lines, if the city and state gov't doesn't mess up with the arena funding, it's fairly likely basketball will be in seattle down the road.

If we had time to put an arena package together, that takes a big leg out from under the reasoning for leaving Seattle.

[Sweezo]

will you guys still follow the team?

This issue has been brought up before...there seemed a pretty strong thought that very few would still root for the Sonics, a large chunk of the fanbase would root for the Blazers, and the rest would tell the NBA to go to hell, basically.

[yearsago]

will you guys still follow the team?

I really don't know what to think at this point.

Didn't think this would happen.

[slick_watts]

Even with the arena funding...they were still being asked to build a ridiculously expensive arena, despite having an arena that isn't the dump it's often made out to be, while knowing a large section of the public didn't want to pay for a new arena so soon after paying for two other arenas when the economy kind of on the skids at the moment.

I know a lot of people really blame the legislature, but I'm not entirely on board with that. Hard to fault the legislature when OKC wasn't being asked to suddenly build anything like what Bennett was proposing in Renton.

i was more referencing the difficulties howard schultz was having when he was initially pining for renovations of key arena. not only that, but david stern and the nba actually assisted him in lobbying for public money if i recall correctly. i don't blame the legislature for balking at the $500m renton proposal; the game was almost over by that point anyway.

If we had time to put an arena package together, that takes a big leg out from under the reasoning for leaving Seattle.

bennett would have simply bled out the two years and left. there was too much invested at that point not to make that decision. for an arena package to matter, either bennett would have had to sell the team back to local ownership after two years to keep it there (fat chance), or the nba board of governers would have had to dis-approve a relocation application by bennett after two years forcing him to sell to local ownership. an nba BOG, mind you, that would not have been very supportive of a city who bled them out for two years of revenue.

all you guys hoping for these sonics to remain here were holding on to a fool's hope; recession was really the only way for that to happen as bennett had too much invested to sell at this point, and the odds of recession would have been slim to none.

[Leonidas]

No more Seattle. Thas a bummer. Oklohoma!?!?.. I can't dig that.. Ain't nuthin like the Emerald. The Glove! The Reignman dunking on Alton Lister!!. I will miss Seattle. Michael Cage and his jerris curl. Sedale Threatt. Detlef Schremf... Kendall Gil. WTF??? Oklahoma!!???