Worst Case Scenario - no 1st round pick

[mihaic]

His drafting is the only thing I don't worry much about.

True. Drafting is pretty good. Trades are more or less ok with a couple misses (Thad was not needed, and Poeltl protection should have been lottery) .

But he almost always overpays when reupping his players, and when signing FAs. And the cap management was sub-par in the last offseason. So, I am afraid he will give too much to IQ and possibly to Gary. Which will kill us when we max Scottie. He is also waiting too long on decisions involving his own players - e.g. Fred.

He always overpays?

Seriously - how many bad contracts have we ever had of any substance? DMC?

We never get a home discount. Lowry 30 mil. Pascal signed a max, no haggling. Birch. Baynes. Thad. Gary. Not overpaid by a lot but always a bit extra.

The last value contract was perhaps OG, besides that it was Lowry's contract before championship.

[YogurtProducer]

True. Drafting is pretty good. Trades are more or less ok with a couple misses (Thad was not needed, and Poeltl protection should have been lottery) .

But he almost always overpays when reupping his players, and when signing FAs. And the cap management was sub-par in the last offseason. So, I am afraid he will give too much to IQ and possibly to Gary. Which will kill us when we max Scottie. He is also waiting too long on decisions involving his own players - e.g. Fred.

He always overpays?

Seriously - how many bad contracts have we ever had of any substance? DMC?

We never get a home discount. Lowry 30 mil. Pascal signed a max, no haggling. Birch. Baynes. Thad. Gary. Not overpaid by a lot but always a bit extra.

The last value contract was perhaps OG, besides that it was Lowry's contract before championship.

How many players give home discounts exactly?

FVV was on a steal of a deal pretty much his entire tenure here. OG and Lowry as you mentioned. Powell ended up being a steal by the end.

So pretty much every notable signing ended up netural or positive value - so not sure how that is "almost always overpays" when in reality the opposite is almost always true.

[Duffman100]

He always overpays?

Seriously - how many bad contracts have we ever had of any substance? DMC?

We never get a home discount. Lowry 30 mil. Pascal signed a max, no haggling. Birch. Baynes. Thad. Gary. Not overpaid by a lot but always a bit extra.

The last value contract was perhaps OG, besides that it was Lowry's contract before championship.

How many players give home discounts exactly?

FVV was on a steal of a deal pretty much his entire tenure here. OG and Lowry as you mentioned. Powell ended up being a steal by the end.

So pretty much every notable signing ended up netural or positive value - so not sure how that is "almost always overpays" when in reality the opposite is almost always true.

Poeltl will be a value contract for his last two years

[mihaic]

He always overpays?

Seriously - how many bad contracts have we ever had of any substance? DMC?

We never get a home discount. Lowry 30 mil. Pascal signed a max, no haggling. Birch. Baynes. Thad. Gary. Not overpaid by a lot but always a bit extra.

The last value contract was perhaps OG, besides that it was Lowry's contract before championship.

How many players give home discounts exactly?

FVV was on a steal of a deal pretty much his entire tenure here. OG and Lowry as you mentioned. Powell ended up being a steal by the end.

So pretty much every notable signing ended up netural or positive value - so not sure how that is "almost always overpays" when in reality the opposite is almost always true.

I put the list above. You think Thad was worth 8mil per year? Give me a break!
The point is, Masai of late (after the title) seems to just pay a bit more than fair value to retain his assets.

At least that is my impression.

[YogurtProducer]

We never get a home discount. Lowry 30 mil. Pascal signed a max, no haggling. Birch. Baynes. Thad. Gary. Not overpaid by a lot but always a bit extra.

The last value contract was perhaps OG, besides that it was Lowry's contract before championship.

How many players give home discounts exactly?

FVV was on a steal of a deal pretty much his entire tenure here. OG and Lowry as you mentioned. Powell ended up being a steal by the end.

So pretty much every notable signing ended up netural or positive value - so not sure how that is "almost always overpays" when in reality the opposite is almost always true.

I put the list above. You think Thad was worth 8mil per year? Give me a break!
The point is, Masai of late (after the title) seems to just pay a bit more than fair value to retain his assets.

At least that is my impression.

Your list was:

Lowry @ 30 mil - absolutely fair value
Pascal max - again, fair value
Birch - was 6M, hardly worth complaining
Baynes - was not even a re-signed player and was a grant total of 7M and was fair value when it was signed. He just regressed hard from his pre-Toronto days
Thad - he was res-signed for pure salary fodder. If we gave Thad 1M we did not have 7M available to use elsewhere regardles
Gary - obviously has not panned out - but we paid for potential (just like we did with Norm in 2018 where it worked)

[mihaic]

How many players give home discounts exactly?

FVV was on a steal of a deal pretty much his entire tenure here. OG and Lowry as you mentioned. Powell ended up being a steal by the end.

So pretty much every notable signing ended up netural or positive value - so not sure how that is "almost always overpays" when in reality the opposite is almost always true.

I put the list above. You think Thad was worth 8mil per year? Give me a break!
The point is, Masai of late (after the title) seems to just pay a bit more than fair value to retain his assets.

At least that is my impression.

Your list was:

Lowry @ 30 mil - absolutely fair value
Pascal max - again, fair value
Birch - was 6M, hardly worth complaining
Baynes - was not even a re-signed player and was a grant total of 7M and was fair value when it was signed. He just regressed hard from his pre-Toronto days
Thad - he was res-signed for pure salary fodder. If we gave Thad 1M we did not have 7M available to use elsewhere regardles
Gary - obviously has not panned out - but we paid for potential (just like we did with Norm in 2018 where it worked)

This is for the most part your subjective opinion.

I could easily say that Lowry was overpaid given his age. Or that Masai did not need to max Pascal, there was no suitor on his RFA status. Noone else wanted Birch. Gary should've been lower given he got a player option, etc.

It's generally not a big overpay, just a bit. I am not even sure if it's Masai or Bobby negotiating.

I respect your opinion, but I guess we'll have to disagree on this. What's expensive for one person can be cheap for another.

[YogurtProducer]

I put the list above. You think Thad was worth 8mil per year? Give me a break!
The point is, Masai of late (after the title) seems to just pay a bit more than fair value to retain his assets.

At least that is my impression.

Your list was:

Lowry @ 30 mil - absolutely fair value
Pascal max - again, fair value
Birch - was 6M, hardly worth complaining
Baynes - was not even a re-signed player and was a grant total of 7M and was fair value when it was signed. He just regressed hard from his pre-Toronto days
Thad - he was res-signed for pure salary fodder. If we gave Thad 1M we did not have 7M available to use elsewhere regardles
Gary - obviously has not panned out - but we paid for potential (just like we did with Norm in 2018 where it worked)

This is for the most part your subjective opinion.

I could easily say that Lowry was overpaid given his age. Or that Masai did not need to max Pascal, there was no suitor on his RFA status. Noone else wanted Birch. Gary should've been lower given he got a player option, etc.

It's generally not a big overpay, just a bit. I am not even sure if it's Masai or Bobby negotiating.

I respect your opinion, but I guess we'll have to disagree on this. What's expensive for one person can be cheap for another.

Saying Lowry was overpaid is just questionable, or Pascal for that matter

Those guys were undoubtedly max guys.