Will Masai Tank 4 Flagg?

[PushDaRock]

The Raptors were with Fred, Pascal and OG and were a lottery team but somehow without them, we are too good to tank?

Thunder with Shai tanked but somehow Raptors are too good to do it.

Wolves, Thunder, Celtics, Mavs are minus the Nuggets who are obviously a historical outlier the contenders in the NBA. All come from lottery picks and tanking.

We aren't even close.

If there was a realistic path to tanking, I mean sure outline it and we can evaluate but I'm not seeing it without blowing up the entire roster. Go look at those OKC tanking rosters, half of the rotational guys aren't even in the NBA anymore. To get that bad, we would need to get rid of IQ, RJ and Poeltl.

[Shakril]

This team will forever be on the treadmill without adding another lottery talent to this roster, this core just isn't good enough and you are dilusional to think otherwise.

Thats exactly how good teams are build. You have a good competetive core and add a Talent that elevates that team.
Its exactly what we have. Its way harder to do it without that said core or if you only have that talent. How many good talents have left their team cause the team wasnt able to create a good foundation around them? Far too many.

It is delusional to think otherwise and do it like the Pistions.

We have a good competitive core?

yes. unless you think IQ, Barnes, RJ and dick have no room to grow.

[PushDaRock]

Barnes will be miserable and gone if we don’t plan to win until after we have drafted and developed a player who isn’t even in the nba yet.

Our core is 23-25. You don’t have 3 years to become good. Next year we need to be .500 and the following year we need to be on the come up.

If they were 19-21 go ahead and tank a year. But this will become miserable and toxic if you make these guys lose for the next 3 years

Id love to hear how you would go about being a good to great team in the next 2 years.....We havn't ever signed a superstar free agent...We Have Zero major assets to trade in any deal for a Superstar player....

We have GTJR, Poeltl, Bruce Brown, Chris Boucher, Kelly Olynyk as players who could be up for trade....Thats gonna get us any kind of player back for us in a trade that would make a significant change? I don't think so...But wait we have Draft picks to trade...Look how that turned out for us...

Internal growth? Barnes, IQ, Barrett, Dick all good young players but are they ready to win anytime soon? i don't think so and to ask them to be on the level of a good NBA team is a big ask for a young team.

Free agency? We gonna sign Dennis Schroder again to be the starting PG? ...That will put us over the hump...

We have one option atm and thats to stock pile talent...The best way and the best way its always been for us to bring in talent is through the draft....The higher the picks the more likely chance of getting a Superstar in the draft....Its the best and most efficient way for us to get better while Scottie is here.

What is the path to these high picks with Scottie, IQ and RJ on your roster? They'll be in year 4,5 and 6 respectively, most players are probably right in their prime in those years. If all 3 are healthy and we are still bad enough to bottom out, they probably are nowhere close to being as good as we hoped in which case you would consider everything up to really bottom out.

[Pointgod]

All the posters that were claiming it’s better to lose the pick this year should support tanking next year because it’s a much stronger draft right? We’ll probably be a top 10 lottery team anyways, to ensure that we have better pick is to trade Poeltl and just give a bunch of minutes to our draft picks and young players. If we’re better than expected that’s fine, we’ve just given a ton of development minutes to a young core, but if we’re worse then we secured a better pick in a loaded draft. The worse thing to do would be to be a mid team by playing a bunch of vets with zero upside.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

if the Raptors got a talent like Flagg, lets just say, today, and he lives up to the potential, along with BBQ, where do the Raptors land in the Flagg era?

top 4? playoff contender?

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Barnes will be miserable and gone if we don’t plan to win until after we have drafted and developed a player who isn’t even in the nba yet.

Our core is 23-25. You don’t have 3 years to become good. Next year we need to be .500 and the following year we need to be on the come up.

If they were 19-21 go ahead and tank a year. But this will become miserable and toxic if you make these guys lose for the next 3 years

Id love to hear how you would go about being a good to great team in the next 2 years.....We havn't ever signed a superstar free agent...We Have Zero major assets to trade in any deal for a Superstar player....

We have GTJR, Poeltl, Bruce Brown, Chris Boucher, Kelly Olynyk as players who could be up for trade....Thats gonna get us any kind of player back for us in a trade that would make a significant change? I don't think so...But wait we have Draft picks to trade...Look how that turned out for us...

Internal growth? Barnes, IQ, Barrett, Dick all good young players but are they ready to win anytime soon? i don't think so and to ask them to be on the level of a good NBA team is a big ask for a young team.

Free agency? We gonna sign Dennis Schroder again to be the starting PG? ...That will put us over the hump...

We have one option atm and thats to stock pile talent...The best way and the best way its always been for us to bring in talent is through the draft....The higher the picks the more likely chance of getting a Superstar in the draft....Its the best and most efficient way for us to get better while Scottie is here.

What is the path to these high picks with Scottie, IQ and RJ on your roster? They'll be in year 4,5 and 6 respectively, most players are probably right in their prime in those years. If all 3 are healthy and we are still bad enough to bottom out, they probably are nowhere close to being as good as we hoped in which case you would consider everything up to really bottom out.

it is about continuous growth. if you get a very talented player(s) with high draft picks, they would be at worse a high end contributor on the bench, which we don't have even right now.

so to say not to grow our team with high end draft picks with BBQ going into their primes would be rediculous thing to suggest. talent is talent.

that being said, Raptors don't have these high end draft picks this year. lol

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

if the Raptors got a talent like Flagg, lets just say, today, and he lives up to the potential, along with BBQ, where do the Raptors land in the Flagg era?

top 4? playoff contender?

He's 17 years old, you'd need a crystal ball. What I do know is we'd need to be a 14-16W team next year to get him.

[PushDaRock]

Id love to hear how you would go about being a good to great team in the next 2 years.....We havn't ever signed a superstar free agent...We Have Zero major assets to trade in any deal for a Superstar player....

We have GTJR, Poeltl, Bruce Brown, Chris Boucher, Kelly Olynyk as players who could be up for trade....Thats gonna get us any kind of player back for us in a trade that would make a significant change? I don't think so...But wait we have Draft picks to trade...Look how that turned out for us...

Internal growth? Barnes, IQ, Barrett, Dick all good young players but are they ready to win anytime soon? i don't think so and to ask them to be on the level of a good NBA team is a big ask for a young team.

Free agency? We gonna sign Dennis Schroder again to be the starting PG? ...That will put us over the hump...

We have one option atm and thats to stock pile talent...The best way and the best way its always been for us to bring in talent is through the draft....The higher the picks the more likely chance of getting a Superstar in the draft....Its the best and most efficient way for us to get better while Scottie is here.

What is the path to these high picks with Scottie, IQ and RJ on your roster? They'll be in year 4,5 and 6 respectively, most players are probably right in their prime in those years. If all 3 are healthy and we are still bad enough to bottom out, they probably are nowhere close to being as good as we hoped in which case you would consider everything up to really bottom out.

it is about continuous growth. if you get a very talented player(s) with high draft picks, they would be at worse a high end contributor on the bench, which we don't have even right now.

so to say not to grow our team with high end draft picks with BBQ going into their primes would be rediculous thing to suggest. talent is talent.

that being said, Raptors don't have these high end draft picks this year. lol

Nobody is opposed to getting more high end talent through the draft. We are discussing tanking though and when I think of a tanking, it's putting out dumpster fire rosters like we did the last 20 games of the season but for the entire year. What's the realistic path to doing that for the entire season while having Scottie, RJ and IQ on the roster?

[Prestige]

The current roster isn’t anywhere close to even being a decent playoff team. I don’t see them making the playoffs/play-in even if fully healthy. We are likely on course to do another stealth tank post ASG and end up in the lottery whether we like it or not.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

You're not getting Flagg on a stealth tank.

[God Squad]

Calling it now, I'm not sure Flagg is the prize.

[LBJKB24MJ23]

What is the path to these high picks with Scottie, IQ and RJ on your roster? They'll be in year 4,5 and 6 respectively, most players are probably right in their prime in those years. If all 3 are healthy and we are still bad enough to bottom out, they probably are nowhere close to being as good as we hoped in which case you would consider everything up to really bottom out.

it is about continuous growth. if you get a very talented player(s) with high draft picks, they would be at worse a high end contributor on the bench, which we don't have even right now.

so to say not to grow our team with high end draft picks with BBQ going into their primes would be rediculous thing to suggest. talent is talent.

that being said, Raptors don't have these high end draft picks this year. lol

Nobody is opposed to getting more high end talent through the draft. We are discussing tanking though and when I think of a tanking, it's putting out dumpster fire rosters like we did the last 20 games of the season but for the entire year. What's the realistic path to doing that for the entire season while having Scottie, RJ and IQ on the roster?

the problem has been the bench for 3-4 years now... that plus 3 point shooting. starters need to rest eventually. if the BBQ era is struggling, its not going to be on those 3 tbh. Masai would have done a terrible job filling the bench with legit NBA talent, which is exactly what he has been doing the last few years. We probably would not have had to trade OG and Siakam if the Raptors had gotten even an average NBA bench (and 3 point shooting to go with it)

[LBJKB24MJ23]

Calling it now, I'm not sure Flagg is the prize.

there is going to be **** ton of talent next draft.

[God Squad]

Calling it now, I'm not sure Flagg is the prize.

there is going to be **** ton of talent next draft.

Agreed. I have my eye on 2-3 guys, not named Flagg. That's why I wasn't opposed to giving up the pick this year. I couldn't imagine being handicapped in a much better draft. I'd be raging all year.

[DelAbbot]

All the posters that were claiming it’s better to lose the pick this year should support tanking next year because it’s a much stronger draft right? We’ll probably be a top 10 lottery team anyways, to ensure that we have better pick is to trade Poeltl and just give a bunch of minutes to our draft picks and young players. If we’re better than expected that’s fine, we’ve just given a ton of development minutes to a young core, but if we’re worse then we secured a better pick in a loaded draft. The worse thing to do would be to be a mid team by playing a bunch of vets with zero upside.

2021/2022
Growth upside: Barnes, Achiuwa, GTJ, Flynn, Banton
Established: FVV, PS, OG

2024/2025
Growth upside: Barnes, IQ, Dick, Obaji, 19, 31
Established: Poeltl, RJ, Brown

Masai would be out of his mind if he pushes this below mid team towards play-in like that Thad trade again.

[TorontoBarneys]

if the Raptors got a talent like Flagg, lets just say, today, and he lives up to the potential, along with BBQ, where do the Raptors land in the Flagg era?

top 4? playoff contender?

Barnes+Flagg might genuinely become the best help+interior defense duo in the entire league.

[DelAbbot]

All the posters that were claiming it’s better to lose the pick this year should support tanking next year because it’s a much stronger draft right? We’ll probably be a top 10 lottery team anyways, to ensure that we have better pick is to trade Poeltl and just give a bunch of minutes to our draft picks and young players. If we’re better than expected that’s fine, we’ve just given a ton of development minutes to a young core, but if we’re worse then we secured a better pick in a loaded draft. The worse thing to do would be to be a mid team by playing a bunch of vets with zero upside.

2021/2022
Growth upside: Barnes, Achiuwa, GTJ, Flynn, Banton
Established: FVV, PS, OG

2024/2025
Growth upside: Barnes, IQ, Dick, Obaji, 19, 31
Established: Poeltl, RJ, Brown

Masai would be out of his mind if he pushes this below mid team towards play-in like that Thad trade again.

This reminds me: we are basically back to 2021/2022 timeline.

Masai wasted 3 years running on the treadmill with one 1st round exit to show for it, while being paid top 3 salary in the NBA. Maybe not fired, but Masai needs to be criticized by all the owners and made an example of.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

If we opt into a 14-16W season next year, that's self termination for the GM.

So, just fire him now...pre draft. Let the new guy pick.

[PushDaRock]

it is about continuous growth. if you get a very talented player(s) with high draft picks, they would be at worse a high end contributor on the bench, which we don't have even right now.

so to say not to grow our team with high end draft picks with BBQ going into their primes would be rediculous thing to suggest. talent is talent.

that being said, Raptors don't have these high end draft picks this year. lol

Nobody is opposed to getting more high end talent through the draft. We are discussing tanking though and when I think of a tanking, it's putting out dumpster fire rosters like we did the last 20 games of the season but for the entire year. What's the realistic path to doing that for the entire season while having Scottie, RJ and IQ on the roster?

the problem has been the bench for 3-4 years now... that plus 3 point shooting. starters need to rest eventually. if the BBQ era is struggling, its not going to be on those 3 tbh. Masai would have done a terrible job filling the bench with legit NBA talent, which is exactly what he has been doing the last few years. We probably would not have had to trade OG and Siakam if the Raptors had gotten even an average NBA bench (and 3 point shooting to go with it)

Sure, we can agree on that but that's not what's being discussed here.

How does this team bottom out to sub 20 wins if Scottie, RJ and IQ are performing to expectations and healthy? It's not realistic to think the bench can be so terrible that it loses you an additional 10-15 games more than an average bench.

[ConSarnit]

What is the path to these high picks with Scottie, IQ and RJ on your roster? They'll be in year 4,5 and 6 respectively, most players are probably right in their prime in those years. If all 3 are healthy and we are still bad enough to bottom out, they probably are nowhere close to being as good as we hoped in which case you would consider everything up to really bottom out.

it is about continuous growth. if you get a very talented player(s) with high draft picks, they would be at worse a high end contributor on the bench, which we don't have even right now.

so to say not to grow our team with high end draft picks with BBQ going into their primes would be rediculous thing to suggest. talent is talent.

that being said, Raptors don't have these high end draft picks this year. lol

Nobody is opposed to getting more high end talent through the draft. We are discussing tanking though and when I think of a tanking, it's putting out dumpster fire rosters like we did the last 20 games of the season but for the entire year. What's the realistic path to doing that for the entire season while having Scottie, RJ and IQ on the roster?

They would have to trade Poeltl.

-start Olynyk, defense becomes terrible

-stay on development path with minutes for Dick, Agbaji, #19, #31

IQ/RJ/Barnes aren’t good enough to carry the team above. I’m not even sure IQ or Barrett ever top out above good role player. There’s a good chance Barnes tops out at 2nd option level.

What probably should be done: see how Barnes/IQ/Barrett look for the first 20 games. If 2 of them have made a leap then stay the course. If it looks like they’ve improved (but not enough to carry this team) then pull the plug early (trade Poeltl, the only thing holding the defense together) and flip to tank mode.

Give Barnes and IQ a chance to prove themselves early in the season but pull the rip cord if it’s not going well.