Will Masai Tank 4 Flagg?

[Chandan]

This was the Magics second time through a full rebuild. Like 10 years?

And they are still going to need to find that #1. They don't have it.

They can use Gradey Dick.

Hey Reeko would agree!

Seriously though. Neither Banchero or Wagner is that guy. They have some good pieces but they'll need to do the hardest thing. Find the #1

i mean... what do you want from them? The only hurdle they have left is... finding that #1? There was literally a consensus #1 last year. Were they not supposed to take the shot by tanking? So they should have tanked harder?

Or are they supposed to trade their depth now for a #1 guy? Like Wag and Suggs and 2 first for embidd or something. Then suddenly they are back in the "haha that team has no depth, playoff fodder" territory.

[Fairview4Life]

They can use Gradey Dick.

Hey Reeko would agree!

Seriously though. Neither Banchero or Wagner is that guy. They have some good pieces but they'll need to do the hardest thing. Find the #1

i mean... what do you want from them? The only hurdle they have left is... finding that #1? There was literally a consensus #1 last year. Were they not supposed to take the shot by tanking? So they should have tanked harder?

Or are they supposed to trade their depth now for a #1 guy? Like Wag and Suggs and 2 first for embidd or something. Then suddenly they are back in the "haha that team has no depth, playoff fodder" territory.

Isn’t finding that #1 the entire reason for tanking and the only thing that matters? Hasn’t that been the entire point of these decades long arguments on realgm?

[Chandan]

Hey Reeko would agree!

Seriously though. Neither Banchero or Wagner is that guy. They have some good pieces but they'll need to do the hardest thing. Find the #1

i mean... what do you want from them? The only hurdle they have left is... finding that #1? There was literally a consensus #1 last year. Were they not supposed to take the shot by tanking? So they should have tanked harder?

Or are they supposed to trade their depth now for a #1 guy? Like Wag and Suggs and 2 first for embidd or something. Then suddenly they are back in the "haha that team has no depth, playoff fodder" territory.

Isn’t finding that #1 the entire reason for tanking and the only thing that matters? Hasn’t that been the entire point of these decades long arguments on realgm?

Exactly. that's why i am asking you. Should they have tanked last year for Wemby if all they are missing is a #1 guy (assuming Wemby will grow into one)
So here's a team that is young, have drafted well, had organic growth, a seemingly good front office. Literally the best case scenario of a FO rebuilding the right now (thru defensive identity). Should they have tanked for Wemby last year?

[Fairview4Life]

i mean... what do you want from them? The only hurdle they have left is... finding that #1? There was literally a consensus #1 last year. Were they not supposed to take the shot by tanking? So they should have tanked harder?

Or are they supposed to trade their depth now for a #1 guy? Like Wag and Suggs and 2 first for embidd or something. Then suddenly they are back in the "haha that team has no depth, playoff fodder" territory.

Isn’t finding that #1 the entire reason for tanking and the only thing that matters? Hasn’t that been the entire point of these decades long arguments on realgm?

Exactly. that's why i am asking you. Should they have tanked last year for Wemby if all they are missing is a #1 guy (assuming Wemby will grow into one)

I don’t think they should have, personally.

[Duffman100]

They can use Gradey Dick.

Hey Reeko would agree!

Seriously though. Neither Banchero or Wagner is that guy. They have some good pieces but they'll need to do the hardest thing. Find the #1

i mean... what do you want from them? The only hurdle they have left is... finding that #1? There was literally a consensus #1 last year. Were they not supposed to take the shot by tanking? So they should have tanked harder?

Or are they supposed to trade their depth now for a #1 guy? Like Wag and Suggs and 2 first for embidd or something. Then suddenly they are back in the "haha that team has no depth, playoff fodder" territory.

The only hurdle they have is the hardest hurdle. The one that was dubbed a miracle and luck for us.

[Chandan]

Hey Reeko would agree!

Seriously though. Neither Banchero or Wagner is that guy. They have some good pieces but they'll need to do the hardest thing. Find the #1

i mean... what do you want from them? The only hurdle they have left is... finding that #1? There was literally a consensus #1 last year. Were they not supposed to take the shot by tanking? So they should have tanked harder?

Or are they supposed to trade their depth now for a #1 guy? Like Wag and Suggs and 2 first for embidd or something. Then suddenly they are back in the "haha that team has no depth, playoff fodder" territory.

The only hurdle they have is the hardest hurdle. The one that was dubbed a miracle and luck for us.

and yet that miracle could be a 14% chance last year.

[Rapsin6]

More often than not it doesnt because there are 30 teams. Every single team building strategy doesn't work more often than not. (**** these double negative are confusing to type out )

the only easy thing to do intentionally is stay in the middle

Yes. And the teams that have won have won in a variety of ways.

and each of those ways work doesn't work as often as tanking arguably. The best way, is of course exist in California.

you NEED a superstar. How do you get it?

There is literally no other way to influence this % except getting to pick players ahead of other teams.

As for your last statement, there are no guarantees there either. Sometimes having other teams pick before you work out for the better. What I mean by that is there were rumours GS wanted Rubio in 2009. Thankfully Minnesota took him off the board. If San Antonio had the first pick, would they have taken Kawhi? Would Milwaukee have taken Giannis 1st overall? Maybe Detroit wishes they picked a few spots later in 2021. It happens quite often where the best player ends up being picked a little later. Look at the draft spots of this year’s MVP candidates.

I’d prefer to see the team playing properly and try to win. Even with that, I have a hard time seeing them make the play in. Good luck in next year’s lottery and draft.

[tecumseh18]

Flagg isn't the only top prospect available.

I can already see it now, these geniuses are gonna bring up Atlanta going up in the draft all season like they did with the once in a life time Kawhi trade as evidence that pushing for mediocrity is okay.

Facts. As if the #1 overall pick is the only thing worth tanking for. Mind boggling that some people think all we need is tinkering and internal growth.

Not as mind boggling as some people thinking that a team starting 4th year Scottie, RJ, IQ and Poeltl is going to bottom out.

But there's nothing worth arguing about. Raps are going to go for the play-in until the deadline, and then trade Poeltl for picks and start Kelly (or Zach or Missi) and tank the rest of the way. It's a strong draft, and drafting from 6 to 10 will be fine if we don't have Altanta's (or the 2021 Raptors') lottery luck.

[Clutch0z24]

the whole concept of a lottery is based on luck.

They had a 86% chance of NOT getting Wemby.

Yes, they got lucky.

You're focusing on one team and completely disregarding the 13 other teams that didn't get him.

This may be a bit to read but follow along if you want..

30 people are in a pool for a lottery...1st place wins 20 Billion, 2nd wins 10 Billion, 3rd wins 5 Billion and so on....

Out of the 30 people in this Lottery 7 of them are multi billionaires (Playoff Contenders) 7 of them are Billionaires (The playoff mid teams) 4 of them are Multi Millionaires (The play in teams) 5 of them are Millionaires (Teams hovering around playins) 5 of them are making 500k (Teams bottoming out)

To win the lottery or give yourself the highest odds you have to quit your job for the year lose out on your yearly salary, You get lets say 50k for the year to spend in total and whoever spends the least of that 50k when the year is up has the highest odds in the Lottery for the 20 billion.

Obviously the Multi billionaires would not risk giving up their money because they make over 20 Billion already, Obviously the Billionaires would not do it because they make a little bit over 20 Billion in the year already, The multi Millionaires might have incentive but they are close to becoming billionaires.

Now we are in the Millionaires/500k Club currently....If you are in their shoes would you yourself give up the salary you make for the year and live on a budget for the chance at life changing money for yourself? Even if you don't get the top prize you still could walk away with 10 Billion, or 5 Billion and even being in the lottery itself would be better for you than where you would be at working the year for your wage...

Now what are the downsides of putting yourself in the lottery to hopefully get 20 billion? Pretty much no downside besides living on a budget for the year.

Same with giving yourself the best lottery odds in the draft...Its something worth trying to win the big prize or even 2nd,3rd hell id even say top 7 in this up coming draft because there could be billions on the line just having that pick...

Theres no downside for us and more upside for us going for it this year...

Yeah, except you ignore the part that there is a 50% chance (or greater) than the cheques you receive end up bouncing.

It is not as simple as "win lottery = receive $20 billion!" it is win lottery, maybe that lottery ends up being $20 billion, maybe it ends up as $2.

OH - and the 15th place that only gets a million of whatever still has the chance of ending up getting $20 billion.

Yeah thats why there is a thing called Scouting and looking at what kind of prospect your getting...Most draft classes have at least 1, 2 and sometimes 3 players you know before hand are worth tanking for... Wemby is a good example of a 20 Billion dollar 1st prize...

This up coming draft i conside Flagg/Bailey both 20 Billion prizes so id take my chance at that lottery than try and make the playoffs with BBQ/Dick who will end up being a top 7 lottery odds next year anyways even if we try to compete we will still be that bad....

[Chandan]

Not as mind boggling as some people thinking that a team starting 4th year Scottie, RJ, IQ and Poeltl is going to bottom out.

This team is 1 injury away from being the worst team in the league again.

[deck]

I think it is unlikely we will be outright tanking next year. I don't think the organization would approve it, and I don't think we will be bad enough unless there are significant injuries.

[Tripod]

We won't tank.

[Kordic27]

I see the play in game in our future!

[mdenny]

I find it funny when people say Masai won't tank, when he's tanked in two of the last four seasons, and one of those tanks landed us Scottie.

If the team is out of it by the deadline, he likely does what he did this year.

The draft lottery didn't work out for them this year, but maybe it does next year. Can't really control those lottery balls, especially with the flattened odds. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. That's what happens when you rely on luck.

I'm not convinced he tanked this season...

Our best player got injured (Scottie) & then our best defender got injured (Yak) -- that alone made us one of the worst teams just by the numbers. But then there was unforeseen personal tragedies for both RJ & IQ that had them out. Now if we have some very "loosely defined injuries" next year as they did ONCE for Scottie that keep in mind MOST IMPORTANTLY happened during Covid when MLSE COULDN'T profit on the season NOT BY THEIR OWN CHOICE. The franchise literally had nothing to lose.

And then somehow the anti-tank argument was "we were never going to outtank the bottom 3"
"we never had a chance at wemby in the first place". Yeah no **** sherlock.
The other organizations planned their timeline on landing that once in a generation player. While we always half assed-ly pivot around in response to bad occurrences in shortsighted-ness.

The other team's planned their timeline on a 12% chance of landing Wemby? But Masai was "crazy" to plan his timeline on signing Giannis because the odds of us signing him were low. Were the odds of signing giannis less than 12%? I highly doubt it.

What kind of business man says "let's spend the next 2 years bottoming out because we will end up having a 1 in 10 chance for a opportunity that MIGHT set us up for success"?

[will]

Higher likelihood he deals the FRP than tanks for Flagg.

[anotherhomer]

Higher likelihood he deals the FRP than tanks for Flagg.

i agree....with the new MLSE CEO, he would really be in the hot seat to tank

[ATLTimekeeper]

Higher likelihood he deals the FRP than tanks for Flagg.

i agree....with the new MLSE CEO, he would really be in the hot seat to tank

It's more likely that they'll wait and see first 20 games and then fire Masai, and let nature take it's course. iirc someone connected to the Leafs says MLSE is considering getting rid of the president position altogether with the Leafs and Raptors.

[anotherhomer]

Higher likelihood he deals the FRP than tanks for Flagg.

i agree....with the new MLSE CEO, he would really be in the hot seat to tank

It's more likely that they'll wait and see first 20 games and then fire Masai, and let nature take it's course. iirc someone connected to the Leafs says MLSE is considering getting rid of the president position altogether with the Leafs and Raptors.

i doubt they would fire Ujiri with 1.5 years left....
but Ujiri is definitely on the hot seat....i wouldn't be surprised if he traded a bunch of picks for win now players

[ATLTimekeeper]

i agree....with the new MLSE CEO, he would really be in the hot seat to tank

It's more likely that they'll wait and see first 20 games and then fire Masai, and let nature take it's course. iirc someone connected to the Leafs says MLSE is considering getting rid of the president position altogether with the Leafs and Raptors.

i doubt they would fire Ujiri with 1.5 years left....
but Ujiri is definitely on the hot seat....i wouldn't be surprised if he traded a bunch of picks for win now players

They would if they were replacing him with... Keith Pelley. I think that's what's on the table. They'll let both existing presidents handle the off-season and if they both flop early they'll let Pelley clean house and hire new GMs. Frankly it doesn't take any skill to be bad on purpose, so why pay for it?

[Clutch0z24]

i agree....with the new MLSE CEO, he would really be in the hot seat to tank

It's more likely that they'll wait and see first 20 games and then fire Masai, and let nature take it's course. iirc someone connected to the Leafs says MLSE is considering getting rid of the president position altogether with the Leafs and Raptors.

i doubt they would fire Ujiri with 1.5 years left....
but Ujiri is definitely on the hot seat....i wouldn't be surprised if he traded a bunch of picks for win now players

So basically saying you think Masai is going to cripple the franchise on his way out? ....Just for your information there isn't win now players available on the market place....Also the players that are available always get their way in trades now days if you look at the trend the last 5 years....Donovan Mitchell for example will prolly go to the team he selects in the offseason.