What to do with Bruce?

[Pointgod]

This FO has been the text book definition of choice paralysis for years. Always constantly worried that "I could've done better" while consistently being found in the position of "How could you possibly even done worse?". It's so tiring. Never ending evaluating, just to make the worst choice possible, every damn time.



Yet every time I have said this, some 200IQ comment gets throw in that "the same deals will be there in the off season". Imagine declining a FRP just to be in this situation.

I think the issue is that all 1sts are not created equal. If the Knicks were offering a late 1st in this draft we already know:

-this draft sucks
-at the time we were slated to possibly have 3 picks in the top 31
-we already traded a late 1st this year for Agbaji

The front office values a late 1st this year as much as they value Agbaji. It's a gamble to keep Brown but trading him for late 1st in 2024 isn't exactly a haul. We are drafting at 19 and 31 so if we've identified players in that range we're going to have a chance to draft them. If we had no 1sts then yeah, not trading Brown was a mistake but adding another late 1st doesn't do much for us. The ship hasn't sailed on Brown returning something of value (in a salary dump or from a team looking to add a playoff rotation level player).

It is a risk to hold onto Brown but the offer was not strong, especially given our draft situation. It was a hat on a hat offer and I'm sure the Knicks knew that.

This was the same argument for not trading FVV, we couldve had a second and Grayson Allen who is objectively one of the best 3p shooters in the NBA. But everyone clowned on it, and we got nothing. BB is shaping up to be the same result, albeit not as bad as a fumble, but still pretty bad.

This has been the FOs issue for years, hold onto a player to get the absolute maximum value....and then never get it, lose them, or trade them for less than the original offers. We need to stop letting the league dictate how WE trade.

Even worse we turned down Grayson Allen and a first just to lose Fred for nothing. I’ve pretty much just ignored player assessments from posters on this board. They think every non superstar players suck and every Raptors player is a blossoming allstar or super role player lol. I have zero expectations that we’d get anything good for BB, the ship has sailed, probably better to just waive him and use the capspace as a salary dump ironically

Read on Twitter

[PhilBlackson]

Trade him.

Whether that’s with our IND pick to move up or pray someone is dumb enough to give us a ‘25. But I don’t want him playing another game on this squad and wasting minutes that can go to other younger players that could be developing instead.

It’s Poeltl who I really want to trade to ensure a proper tank and free up cap for a better FA class next year.

[Scase]

I think the issue is that all 1sts are not created equal. If the Knicks were offering a late 1st in this draft we already know:

-this draft sucks
-at the time we were slated to possibly have 3 picks in the top 31
-we already traded a late 1st this year for Agbaji

The front office values a late 1st this year as much as they value Agbaji. It's a gamble to keep Brown but trading him for late 1st in 2024 isn't exactly a haul. We are drafting at 19 and 31 so if we've identified players in that range we're going to have a chance to draft them. If we had no 1sts then yeah, not trading Brown was a mistake but adding another late 1st doesn't do much for us. The ship hasn't sailed on Brown returning something of value (in a salary dump or from a team looking to add a playoff rotation level player).

It is a risk to hold onto Brown but the offer was not strong, especially given our draft situation. It was a hat on a hat offer and I'm sure the Knicks knew that.

This was the same argument for not trading FVV, we couldve had a second and Grayson Allen who is objectively one of the best 3p shooters in the NBA. But everyone clowned on it, and we got nothing. BB is shaping up to be the same result, albeit not as bad as a fumble, but still pretty bad.

This has been the FOs issue for years, hold onto a player to get the absolute maximum value....and then never get it, lose them, or trade them for less than the original offers. We need to stop letting the league dictate how WE trade.

Even worse we turned down Grayson Allen and a first just to lose Fred for nothing. I’ve pretty much just ignored player assessments from posters on this board. They think every non superstar players suck and every Raptors player is a blossoming allstar or super role player lol. I have zero expectations that we’d get anything good for BB, the ship has sailed, probably better to just waive him and use the capspace as a salary dump ironically

Read on Twitter

Ah yeah you're right, it was a pick in the 20's not a second rounder, thanks!

[Pointgod]

This was the same argument for not trading FVV, we couldve had a second and Grayson Allen who is objectively one of the best 3p shooters in the NBA. But everyone clowned on it, and we got nothing. BB is shaping up to be the same result, albeit not as bad as a fumble, but still pretty bad.

This has been the FOs issue for years, hold onto a player to get the absolute maximum value....and then never get it, lose them, or trade them for less than the original offers. We need to stop letting the league dictate how WE trade.

Even worse we turned down Grayson Allen and a first just to lose Fred for nothing. I’ve pretty much just ignored player assessments from posters on this board. They think every non superstar players suck and every Raptors player is a blossoming allstar or super role player lol. I have zero expectations that we’d get anything good for BB, the ship has sailed, probably better to just waive him and use the capspace as a salary dump ironically

Read on Twitter

Ah yeah you're right, it was a pick in the 20's not a second rounder, thanks!

I believe it was the 2029 pick, which was valuable enough to be in a trade for Lillard but not Van Vleet apparently

[Pointgod]

Brown to NY for Bongdonovic + Mil 25 pick

Tell me why NY does that?

[metafisical]

Trade him.

Whether that’s with our IND pick to move up or pray someone is dumb enough to give us a ‘25. But I don’t want him playing another game on this squad and wasting minutes that can go to other younger players that could be developing instead.

It’s Poeltl who I really want to trade to ensure a proper tank and free up cap for a better FA class next year.

I agree with your premise, but don't want to trade away our Indy pick to get rid of Bruce. I would rather accept a 2nd than lose that first.

[SpezNc]

You think he’s worth keeping with this core or do you try trading him for some picks?

Personally I don’t see him fitting well with a rebuilding team.

At this point I hope we let him walk…

If we can trade him, great. Otherwise, let’s move on, we need to engineer an organic tank.

[CazOnReal]

Brown to NY for Bongdonovic + Mil 25 pick

Tell me why NY does that?

We'll be Dolan's friend if he does that

[steveholt]

get rid of this bum by all means

What a horrible trade / mismanagement of assets by Masai

[Shakril]

get rid of this bum by all means

What a horrible trade / mismanagement of assets by Masai

He is not a bum, he is on the wrong team. And Brown himself isnt really motivated to play for the raps as we have seen.

That shows his flawed character more as his lack of talent. He will be a good Roleplayer/Benchplayer for any contender.
Problem is, he tanked his own value so hard, that nobody wants to give something for him.

[InfraRedshaw]

what did Bruce and Jakob do to hurt yall feelings like this?
This team will need vets, unless you want to be the Pistons I guess

[ArthurVandelay]

what did Bruce and Jakob do to hurt yall feelings like this?
This team will need vets, unless you want to be the Pistons I guess

Scottie going to year 4, IQ year 5, RJ year 6.

Temple year 14. Kelly year 12.

They have vets.

They need talent and depth.

[InfraRedshaw]

BB and Jakob are talented and depth

I'd be down to flip BB at the draft or the deadline, but it's not like hes a negative asset or something

[DreamTeam09]

Brown to NY for Bongdonovic + Mil 25 pick

Tell me why NY does that?

The same reason they offered forneir + 24 1st. To get a player that would be in rotation for a player that's not in rotation.

[douggood]

I think the issue is that all 1sts are not created equal. If the Knicks were offering a late 1st in this draft we already know:

-this draft sucks
-at the time we were slated to possibly have 3 picks in the top 31
-we already traded a late 1st this year for Agbaji

The front office values a late 1st this year as much as they value Agbaji. It's a gamble to keep Brown but trading him for late 1st in 2024 isn't exactly a haul. We are drafting at 19 and 31 so if we've identified players in that range we're going to have a chance to draft them. If we had no 1sts then yeah, not trading Brown was a mistake but adding another late 1st doesn't do much for us. The ship hasn't sailed on Brown returning something of value (in a salary dump or from a team looking to add a playoff rotation level player).

It is a risk to hold onto Brown but the offer was not strong, especially given our draft situation. It was a hat on a hat offer and I'm sure the Knicks knew that.

This was the same argument for not trading FVV, we couldve had a second and Grayson Allen who is objectively one of the best 3p shooters in the NBA. But everyone clowned on it, and we got nothing. BB is shaping up to be the same result, albeit not as bad as a fumble, but still pretty bad.

This has been the FOs issue for years, hold onto a player to get the absolute maximum value....and then never get it, lose them, or trade them for less than the original offers. We need to stop letting the league dictate how WE trade.

Even worse we turned down Grayson Allen and a first just to lose Fred for nothing. I’ve pretty much just ignored player assessments from posters on this board. They think every non superstar players suck and every Raptors player is a blossoming allstar or super role player lol. I have zero expectations that we’d get anything good for BB, the ship has sailed, probably better to just waive him and use the capspace as a salary dump ironically

Read on Twitter

love it how we say grange knows nothing but when he says something to support an argument his reports are brought up.

[Pointgod]

Brown to NY for Bongdonovic + Mil 25 pick

Tell me why NY does that?

The same reason they offered forneir + 24 1st. To get a player that would be in rotation for a player that's not in rotation.

They got that player though for less than a first. Bruce Brown essentially duplicates what Josh Hart does and Hart already does it better. Bogdanovic provides elite 3 point shooting and spacing. I don’t see the value in New York giving up a first for Brown vs using it for a backup PF or PG.

[DreamTeam09]

Tell me why NY does that?

The same reason they offered forneir + 24 1st. To get a player that would be in rotation for a player that's not in rotation.

They got that player though for less than a first. Bruce Brown essentially duplicates what Josh Hart does and Hart already does it better. Bogdanovic provides elite 3 point shooting and spacing. I don’t see the value in New York giving up a first for Brown vs using it for a backup PF or PG.

Brown instantly becomes their 2nd best ball handler. I'm just throwing ish at a wall tho.

[JB7]

Trade BB for Wiggins, done.

Wiggins is an upgrade over BB, and solves the Raps SF/POA defender problem, plus they can fit his contract under the tax.

GSW frees up room under the tax next summer to extend Kuminga & Moody, and they can argue they received something for Wiggins.

[kalel123]

Tell me why NY does that?

The same reason they offered forneir + 24 1st. To get a player that would be in rotation for a player that's not in rotation.

They got that player though for less than a first. Bruce Brown essentially duplicates what Josh Hart does and Hart already does it better. Bogdanovic provides elite 3 point shooting and spacing. I don’t see the value in New York giving up a first for Brown vs using it for a backup PF or PG.

Not that you are necessarily wrong but I would think they don't want to have to keep playing Josh Hart 48 minutes every game regular season or playoffs.

[kalel123]

Trade him.

Whether that’s with our IND pick to move up or pray someone is dumb enough to give us a ‘25. But I don’t want him playing another game on this squad and wasting minutes that can go to other younger players that could be developing instead.

It’s Poeltl who I really want to trade to ensure a proper tank and free up cap for a better FA class next year.

I agree with your premise, but don't want to trade away our Indy pick to get rid of Bruce. I would rather accept a 2nd than lose that first.

I think he's suggesting to package Brown and Indy pick to move up? At this point, that wouldn't be bad. You can package a pick with him as long as you end up with a better pick. On the other hand, for example, I would vehemently oppose if anybody suggested packaging '25 pick or '26 pick with Brown to get a pick in this year's draft.