OT: Leafs/NHL Thread

[Badonkadonk]

Bad move. Kyle had cracked the code the past couple of seasons, the only real thing I'll fault him with is trusting Keefe for too long.

The NHL playoffs are fundamentally broken and Dubas is paying the price for randomness and an oversaturated Toronto hockey media-market that fosters this "pressure" resulting in change for the sake of change.

Typical Leafs in many ways.

Cracked what code? That is team building approach was flawed... You can't fill a roster with puck moving players that are afraid of contact.

All of his last minute trades (acquiring bigger/tougher/grittier players) were to work in the exact opposite direction of how he originally built the team.

In his last few deals he acquired, Schenn, O'Reilly, McCabe, Lafferty and Acciari, and he moved out Sandin and Engvall to acquire picks to replace some of the picks he traded to acquire the grit.

The code of shifting away from purely talent accumulation to a better mix of physicality, while also improving the goaltending situation both current season and future (Woll's development). His transactions look different now than they did even a couple of seasons ago.

This is exactly like Alex Anthopolous. He'll take his learnings and some other team will benefit greatly from them.

[ATLTimekeeper]

surprised at the dubas decision.

i think they're headed back into a truculence/goon direction which probably won't work out too as we've seen with burkie.

leafs gotta fix the goaltending the furthest they've ever made it in the past 30 years was with potvin/cujo/belfour in goal. maybe woll is that dude? but that's the key if they ever want real playoff success. and getting good playoff goaltending at all is random as hell too.

anyway, i'm guessing they'll get some retreads and push to get bigger/tougher/grittier

Burke's worst move was the S&T for Kessell off the bat. There was maybe one truculence move that was a bust (Komisarek), but Phaneuf was dirt cheap.

Dubas trading Kadri for Kerfoot/Barrie was what wasn't working for the Leafs.

Not as if he traded Naz for no reason. The entire Kadri situation was unfortunate though as that was the supporting guy they've been missing since he left.

Anyway, my point was that it doesn't matter what style of play they follow if the goaltending isn't up to scratch.

Well, on that note the goaltender he inherited is still playing hockey right now for Carolina. Meanwhile we have Matt Murray on the books for next year.

[WaltFrazier]

I don't follow closely enough to say, but was it a mistake choosing Dubas over Lou Lamoriello? Would we be further ahead with Lou by now?

[JB7]

Bad move. Kyle had cracked the code the past couple of seasons, the only real thing I'll fault him with is trusting Keefe for too long.

The NHL playoffs are fundamentally broken and Dubas is paying the price for randomness and an oversaturated Toronto hockey media-market that fosters this "pressure" resulting in change for the sake of change.

Typical Leafs in many ways.

Cracked what code? That is team building approach was flawed... You can't fill a roster with puck moving players that are afraid of contact.

All of his last minute trades (acquiring bigger/tougher/grittier players) were to work in the exact opposite direction of how he originally built the team.

In his last few deals he acquired, Schenn, O'Reilly, McCabe, Lafferty and Acciari, and he moved out Sandin and Engvall to acquire picks to replace some of the picks he traded to acquire the grit.

The code of shifting away from purely talent accumulation to a better mix of physicality, while also improving the goaltending situation both current season and future (Woll's development). His transactions look different now than they did even a couple of seasons ago.

This is exactly like Alex Anthopolous. He'll take his learnings and some other team will benefit greatly from them.

The only reason he made the moves for Schenn, O'Reilly and McCabe, was because he was panicking. He knew the results this offseason, if they didn't make a run would be his firing. Didn't you see his reactions in the playoffs. Him cursing out TB fans. The man was under so much pressure to win. Even then, it wasn't until the last moments that he panicked and traded drafts picks for grit.

He should have been looking to move one of the core 3 years earlier to create that balance, but refused to move off his core.

I don't know what team would want to hire a GM that was given that talent, $$, and team around him of executives (as needed), and produce effectively nothing in the playoffs. AA was a brilliant GM. Don't pair his name with Dubas.

[ItsDanger]

LOL, Dubas doesn't understand playoff hockey and what it takes to win. The finesse 4 set a soft tone, rest of the team follows. GMs like that have to learn to keep your powder dry. This hockey market is very forgiving and will be patient when warranted. Now the Leafs are in a very precarious position. The easy phase is over.

[JB7]

I don't follow closely enough to say, but was it a mistake choosing Dubas over Lou Lamoriello? Would we be further ahead with Lou by now?

All I know is Marner, Nylander and Matthews wouldn't have got the deals they got if Lamoriello was GM. And losing Mark Hunter (Dale Hunter's brother) also hurt in terms of getting talent through the draft.

All I remember is the season before Rielly signed his previous deal (which covered 2016-17 to 2021-22 - 6 years at $5M per season), the team decided to work on Rielly's defensive zone coverage, and moved him off the 1st powerplay unit (to obviously suppress his offensive numbers), going into contract negotiations. After the deal, he was back on the 1st powerplay unit. Lamoriello was GM then. It was completely a Lou move.

Lou also negotiated Kadri's deal during that time, which was another undervalue contract.

[will]

I don't follow closely enough to say, but was it a mistake choosing Dubas over Lou Lamoriello? Would we be further ahead with Lou by now?

All I know is Marner, Nylander and Matthews wouldn't have got the deals they got if Lamoriello was GM. And losing Mark Hunter (Dale Hunter's brother) also hurt in terms of getting talent through the draft.

All I remember is the season before Rielly signed his previous deal (which covered 2016-17 to 2021-22 - 6 years at $5M per season), the team decided to work on Rielly's defensive zone coverage, and moved him off the 1st powerplay unit (to obviously suppress his offensive numbers), going into contract negotiations. After the deal, he was back on the 1st powerplay unit. Lamoriello was GM then. It was completely a Lou move.

Lou also negotiated Kadri's deal during that time, which was another undervalue contract.

With the talent that the London Knights get, they would have basically replaced the Toronto Marlies

[will]

This Shanahan presser is fun!

[ATLTimekeeper]

Shanahan pretty much confirming what Friedman said earlier in the week. Dubas left the door too open in his presser and Shanny changed his mind.

[will]

Is it Mark Hunter SZN?

Or Brad Treliving SZN?

The sick part of me wants it to be Brian Burke SZN!!!!

[JB7]

So on the Fan 590, they are saying the reason they let go of Dubas is he asked for more money than originally they had agreed on.

Are the Leafs the most pathetic organization in the world? They can't even fire people correctly.

Why is he not being fired for performance (or rather lack of...)?

Why would he even think he could ask for more $$$ after yet another crap playoffs?

Honestly, I'm so done with this crap organization. Masai must shake his head every time he walks near any of the buffoons' running the Leafs.

[will]

So on the Fan 590, they are saying the reason they let go of Dubas is he asked for more money than originally they had agreed on.

Are the Leafs the most pathetic organization in the world? They can't even fire people correctly.

Why is he not being fired for performance (or rather lack of...)?

Why would he even think he could ask for more $$$ after yet another crap playoffs?

Honestly, I'm so done with this crap organization. Masai must shake his head every time he walks near any of the buffoons' running the Leafs.

See you in October and November for the start of both seasons

[WuTang_OG]

Kyle didn't really want the job based on Shanahan's outline only until last minute hail mary of big $$$

good on shanny not buying that garbage

Should have been fired after MTL. The pandamic saved him.

[ATLTimekeeper]

So on the Fan 590, they are saying the reason they let go of Dubas is he asked for more money than originally they had agreed on.

Are the Leafs the most pathetic organization in the world? They can't even fire people correctly.

Why is he not being fired for performance (or rather lack of...)?

Why would he even think he could ask for more $$$ after yet another crap playoffs?

Honestly, I'm so done with this crap organization. Masai must shake his head every time he walks near any of the buffoons' running the Leafs.

He also asked for autonomy. Anyway, we know he's a weak negotiator and he just talked his way out of a job they were willing to give him. Perfect ending to his Toronto career

[Brinbe]

Ended poorly here for KD but he'll win elsewhere like AA. But no problem with a change of direction as this wasn't working as is but let's see who they hire next. Getting an old retread again would be on-brand for the Laffs. MLSE back to the teachers pension days. Not a good look when the Argos are the most stable looking piece in the organisation.

[Badonkadonk]

Cracked what code? That is team building approach was flawed... You can't fill a roster with puck moving players that are afraid of contact.

All of his last minute trades (acquiring bigger/tougher/grittier players) were to work in the exact opposite direction of how he originally built the team.

In his last few deals he acquired, Schenn, O'Reilly, McCabe, Lafferty and Acciari, and he moved out Sandin and Engvall to acquire picks to replace some of the picks he traded to acquire the grit.

The code of shifting away from purely talent accumulation to a better mix of physicality, while also improving the goaltending situation both current season and future (Woll's development). His transactions look different now than they did even a couple of seasons ago.

This is exactly like Alex Anthopolous. He'll take his learnings and some other team will benefit greatly from them.

The only reason he made the moves for Schenn, O'Reilly and McCabe, was because he was panicking. He knew the results this offseason, if they didn't make a run would be his firing. Didn't you see his reactions in the playoffs. Him cursing out TB fans. The man was under so much pressure to win. Even then, it wasn't until the last moments that he panicked and traded drafts picks for grit.

He should have been looking to move one of the core 3 years earlier to create that balance, but refused to move off his core.

I don't know what team would want to hire a GM that was given that talent, $$, and team around him of executives (as needed), and produce effectively nothing in the playoffs. AA was a brilliant GM. Don't pair his name with Dubas.

He made good moves because he "panicked"? Guess we'll see how this all plays out, won't we?

Spezza just quit too, and he was a massive figure in the locker room.

This will continue to age poorly. The only people who are panicked are fans and, apparently, Shanny.

[ItsDanger]

From Shanahan's presser, he needs to go also. This is about money or indecision? LOL recognize the real on ice issues. What happened to Shanahan anyways?

[bballsparkin]

Not a hockey expert, but it seems like the Leafs were much better constructed this season. And Knies looks like a good one.

It's Keefe who was/is in over his head. There was all kinds of media analysis explaining how he wasn't maximizing the strengths of the roster.

But trust the Leafs to make exactly the wrong decision. What, are they gonna bring back JFJr?

Well, someone hired Keefe. I'll let you take a guess who that was (hint: not JFjr). This was Dubas best team yet, and it cost them a mangled cap situation and almost all the important picks over the next 3 drafts. The actual job of the next 5 years is a lot more difficult than the job of the previous 5 years, so I don't blame them if they didn't believe Dubas could fix this.

Dubas stuck with his core in a hard cap. It hasn't worked. I think bringing in a new GM with less attachment to those players is a great idea. I saw a rumour that the Penguins are interested in Dubas. Seems like a great fit. He can help the Penguins clean up their cap mess.

[tms]

If Dubas legit asked for a raise, Shanny had no choice but to let him go. The optics would have been horrible. Dubas overplayed his hand and I'm glad he's gone.

[Davey0]

From Shanahan's presser, he needs to go also. This is about money or indecision? LOL recognize the real on ice issues. What happened to Shanahan anyways?

What I heard, It seemed like Dubas agent randomly request more power and money for Dubas at the last second. So I don't know why the sudden change and power but apparently his press conferences on Monday left a bitter taste. I'll have to go back and re-watch it to see what they were referring to.

I think at this point the money would be better for Matthews. They need to find any possible way to keep him as a Leaf.

I'm all for change. People are shocked but the results got nowhere under the power of Dubas. There is more to it but maybe he was part of it.

We shall see I suppose.