Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[Dalek]

I think we have to be happy with what has happened in both the Siakam and OG trades. You can haggle over the return, but both are such flawed players and it now shows up in different teams/cultures.

Siakam as a a player who shrinks in big moments (outside of 2019) is a real thing. Even where he has a star like Haliburton it doesn't make a difference when his rim attacks are still predictable and his jumper fails him.

OG being an all-world defender and potential star hampered by his inability to stay on court has also showed up. He made it through 1.5 rounds and missed a ton of time for NY. He is an amazing piece, but he has to sort out his body or he will never survive being coached by Thibs.

Both were great Raptors, but I guess these playoffs have made me feel better that we got out from under some bad future deals with these two.

[Tor_Raps]

While Siakam needs to be better, Halliburton is the main reason why Indiana hasnt been better than people expected. That dude went from playing at a generational level to start the year to not even allstar material that quick. Indiana was always going to go as far as HE took them. No one mistook Siakam as an alpha of any kind ever.

[Duffman100]

I think we have to be happy with what has happened in both the Siakam and OG trades. You can haggle over the return, but both are such flawed players and it now shows up in different teams/cultures.

Siakam as a a player who shrinks in big moments (outside of 2019) is a real thing. Even where he has a star like Haliburton it doesn't make a difference when his rim attacks are still predictable and his jumper fails him.

OG being an all-world defender and potential star hampered by his inability to stay on court has also showed up. He made it through 1.5 rounds and missed a ton of time for NY. He is an amazing piece, but he has to sort out his body or he will never survive being coached by Thibs.

Both were great Raptors, but I guess these playoffs have made me feel better that we got out from under some bad future deals with these two.

Yeah I love both guys, wouldn't have minded keeping either. But really would have cringed at the price tags.

I think we get can also let both walk, appreciate them without having to **** on them either.

On to the next chapter.

[Dalek]

I think we have to be happy with what has happened in both the Siakam and OG trades. You can haggle over the return, but both are such flawed players and it now shows up in different teams/cultures.

Siakam as a a player who shrinks in big moments (outside of 2019) is a real thing. Even where he has a star like Haliburton it doesn't make a difference when his rim attacks are still predictable and his jumper fails him.

OG being an all-world defender and potential star hampered by his inability to stay on court has also showed up. He made it through 1.5 rounds and missed a ton of time for NY. He is an amazing piece, but he has to sort out his body or he will never survive being coached by Thibs.

Both were great Raptors, but I guess these playoffs have made me feel better that we got out from under some bad future deals with these two.

Yeah I love both guys, wouldn't have minded keeping either. But really would have cringed at the price tags.

I think we get can also let both walk, appreciate them without having to **** on them either.

On to the next chapter.

Neither were premium lotto picks. Guys like Barnes, Dick, Barrett and possibly this next draft will be us tapping into bigger star potential. Even IQ, while he wasn't a high pick, he played in a top college program.

Credit to OG and Siakam for outplaying their draft status, but neither were meant to be star players (OG wasn't even top 200 in high school in ranking while Siakam was practically going to seminary school).

[ATLTimekeeper]

While Siakam needs to be better, Halliburton is the main reason why Indiana hasnt been better than people expected. That dude went from playing at a generational level to start the year to not even allstar material that quick. Indiana was always going to go as far as HE took them. No one mistook Siakam as an alpha of any kind ever.

Hali is the Mitch Marner of the NBA. He just can't handle physicality and pulls the parachute on most of his drives. Last night he actually looked like the guy that he was for most of the season and Siakam let him down. The dude on that team is Mathurin. He wants the ball in all situations. He would have cooked all these Villanova guys.

[JB7]

I think we have to be happy with what has happened in both the Siakam and OG trades. You can haggle over the return, but both are such flawed players and it now shows up in different teams/cultures.

Siakam as a a player who shrinks in big moments (outside of 2019) is a real thing. Even where he has a star like Haliburton it doesn't make a difference when his rim attacks are still predictable and his jumper fails him.

OG being an all-world defender and potential star hampered by his inability to stay on court has also showed up. He made it through 1.5 rounds and missed a ton of time for NY. He is an amazing piece, but he has to sort out his body or he will never survive being coached by Thibs.

Both were great Raptors, but I guess these playoffs have made me feel better that we got out from under some bad future deals with these two.

Yeah I love both guys, wouldn't have minded keeping either. But really would have cringed at the price tags.

I think we get can also let both walk, appreciate them without having to **** on them either.

On to the next chapter.

Neither were premium lotto picks. Guys like Barnes, Dick, Barrett and possibly this next draft will be us tapping into bigger star potential. Even IQ, while he wasn't a high pick, he played in a top college program.

Credit to OG and Siakam for outplaying their draft status, but neither were meant to be star players (OG wasn't even top 200 in high school in ranking while Siakam was practically going to seminary school).

Yes, with the passage of time, I think these deals will look much better on what the Raps acquired (or rather let go). This summer will be a huge step. Once both of these guys get paid, the pressure (negative criticism) from the media will increase significantly, and the media will be looking much more favourably on how the Raps came out of those trades.

[Tor_Raps]

While Siakam needs to be better, Halliburton is the main reason why Indiana hasnt been better than people expected. That dude went from playing at a generational level to start the year to not even allstar material that quick. Indiana was always going to go as far as HE took them. No one mistook Siakam as an alpha of any kind ever.

Hali is the Mitch Marner of the NBA. He just can't handle physicality and pulls the parachute on most of his drives. Last night he actually looked like the guy that he was for most of the season and Siakam let him down. The dude on that team is Mathurin. He wants the ball in all situations. He would have cooked all these Villanova guys.

Halliburton was absolutely pathetic the 2nd half of that game. Also hard to make that comparison when this is Halliburton's first playoffs and he spent the entire 2nd half of the season playing like crap.

I feel like Carlisle is the one who screwed the game up. TJ/Toppin/Sheppard were all playing great and they all got benched for dudes who didn't do much on the court. I could get sitting one of those guys but all 3 is ridiculous. TJ/Toppin should have been on the court over Nembhard/Nesmith.

[YogurtProducer]

Play style was different back then and it's not as if the '22 Raptors were a top offensive team with Siakam facilitating. We can quibble all day long about the semantics of "material" or "massive" or "quite a bit better", but I think it's pretty clear that Bosh did more with a lot less.

What?

Raptors with Siakam as a top option were a true contender in 2020 (with a solid surrounding cast) and a 48-win team in 2022 with a meh supporting cast (namely, no bench).

Chris Bosh made the playoffs twice (3 total wins) and we were not some offensive juggernaut with CB4 as our main guy either.

Yeah, that surrounding cast is the whole point. Remove Bosh/Siakam from the equation, and I'd take all the 2020 & 2022 starters over everyone else on the 2010 team.

Sure - lets just ignore the bench which was key weakness of 2020 and 2022 and was actually solid in 2010.

Swap benches of those teams and the 2020 team wins 50+ and that 2010 team wins 30.

[ATLTimekeeper]

Bosh would be a much better player than Siakam if he was in this current version of the NBA.

A stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility that can’t get played off the floor ?

Insanely valuable lol.

I think you have to keep in mind that stretch 5 Bosh wasn't 20/10 Bosh. Also not sure how versatile defensively you think he was, but he was good on schemes, not really guarding down much and would get routinely destroyed by bigs with scoring touch. I actually wouldn't even bet on Bosh being a 5 in this NBA. When he finally moved down there Tyson Chandler was a "top 5" C in the league. There was almost no big 5s at all.

[brownbobcat]

What?

Raptors with Siakam as a top option were a true contender in 2020 (with a solid surrounding cast) and a 48-win team in 2022 with a meh supporting cast (namely, no bench).

Chris Bosh made the playoffs twice (3 total wins) and we were not some offensive juggernaut with CB4 as our main guy either.

Yeah, that surrounding cast is the whole point. Remove Bosh/Siakam from the equation, and I'd take all the 2020 & 2022 starters over everyone else on the 2010 team.

Sure - lets just ignore the bench which was key weakness of 2020 and 2022 and was actually solid in 2010.

Swap benches of those teams and the 2020 team wins 50+ and that 2010 team wins 30.

Is the argument about the bench or the entire team surrounding Bosh/Siakam? The 2020 team came back with exactly the same supporting cast as the championship squad minus Danny Green (and Kawhi obviously, but had gone 17-5 without him the year before).
So if the argument is that Bosh had more help than that in any way shape or form, just stop already.

[MiamiSPX]

While Siakam needs to be better, Halliburton is the main reason why Indiana hasnt been better than people expected. That dude went from playing at a generational level to start the year to not even allstar material that quick. Indiana was always going to go as far as HE took them. No one mistook Siakam as an alpha of any kind ever.

Aren't we going on 4 months now that people keep whining about Haliburton being injured? He sure didn't look injured when he was prancing around like Spiderman (in the 1Q no less) of GM3 in the Bucks series. Or when he constantly flops (like last night on that 3 that missed with 40 seconds left and nobody within a foot of him lol).

[ForeverTFC]

Bosh would be a much better player than Siakam if he was in this current version of the NBA.

A stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility that can’t get played off the floor ?

Insanely valuable lol.

I will readily admit that Chris Bosh is one of my least favorite Raptors of all time. I was more affected when PJ Tucker turned us down for Houston than I was when Bosh left for the Heat. I say this to cede that I am as negatively biased as negatively biased can be here as a Raptors fan.

With that out of the way, Chris Bosh was never a stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility. Chris Bosh was EITHER a 20/10 guy with no defense, perpetually folding at the altar of Mikki Moore OR Chrish Bosh was a 3rd option stretch big with defensive versatility. He was never both at once and that's why he had to beg for all-star votes.

Siakam over Bosh all day, and it's not even close for me.

[Raptorfan2012]

Bosh would be a much better player than Siakam if he was in this current version of the NBA.

A stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility that can’t get played off the floor ?

Insanely valuable lol.

I will readily admit that Chris Bosh is one of my least favorite Raptors of all time. I was more affected when PJ Tucker turned us down for Houston than I was when Bosh left for the Heat. I say this to cede that I am as negatively biased as negatively biased can be here as a Raptors fan. I don't like Chris Bosh and I don't like that dude that used to leach off of him and spam Bosh posts here, whatever his name was.

With that out of the way, Chris Bosh was never a stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility. Chris Bosh was EITHER a 20/10 guy with no defense, perpetually folding at the altar of Mikki Moore OR Chrish Bosh was a 3rd option stretch big with defensive versatility. He was never both at once and that's why he had to beg for all-star votes.

Siakam over Bosh all day, and it's not even close for me.

I never understood how Chris Bosh is a Hall of Famer. Good player - yes, but did he really make a significant impact in the history of basketball? If Bosh can be a HoF, Lowry is an auto-include as well.

[Tor_Raps]

While Siakam needs to be better, Halliburton is the main reason why Indiana hasnt been better than people expected. That dude went from playing at a generational level to start the year to not even allstar material that quick. Indiana was always going to go as far as HE took them. No one mistook Siakam as an alpha of any kind ever.

Aren't we going on 4 months now that people keep whining about Haliburton being injured? He sure didn't look injured when he was prancing around like Spiderman (in the 1Q no less) of GM3 in the Bucks series. Or when he constantly flops (like last night on that 3 that missed with 40 seconds left and nobody within a foot of him lol).

I got over his fake ass injury excuse a while ago. He could have sat a long time ago but he chose to chase after the 65 game played mark, which won't even matter because he's not all nba material at the moment anyways.

It's just flat out underperforming and blame always needs to go to the number 1 guy first. Siakam also needs to step up but no one was saying he was going to be Indiana's best player.

[brownbobcat]

Bosh would be a much better player than Siakam if he was in this current version of the NBA.

A stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility that can’t get played off the floor ?

Insanely valuable lol.

I will readily admit that Chris Bosh is one of my least favorite Raptors of all time. I was more affected when PJ Tucker turned us down for Houston than I was when Bosh left for the Heat. I say this to cede that I am as negatively biased as negatively biased can be here as a Raptors fan.

With that out of the way, Chris Bosh was never a stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility. Chris Bosh was EITHER a 20/10 guy with no defense, perpetually folding at the altar of Mikki Moore OR Chrish Bosh was a 3rd option stretch big with defensive versatility. He was never both at once and that's why he had to beg for all-star votes.

Siakam over Bosh all day, and it's not even close for me.

He had 1 bad series at 22 when the entire team got its lunch handed to them by a veteran squad - and still played better than bubble Siakam, by the way. Bosh performed much better against peak Dwight a year later. And yeah, he was 3rd option to peak LeBron and Wade - who wouldn't be?

[will]

Bosh would be a much better player than Siakam if he was in this current version of the NBA.

A stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility that can’t get played off the floor ?

Insanely valuable lol.

I will readily admit that Chris Bosh is one of my least favorite Raptors of all time. I was more affected when PJ Tucker turned us down for Houston than I was when Bosh left for the Heat. I say this to cede that I am as negatively biased as negatively biased can be here as a Raptors fan.

With that out of the way, Chris Bosh was never a stretch 5 that could put up 20/10 a night with defensive versatility. Chris Bosh was EITHER a 20/10 guy with no defense, perpetually folding at the altar of Mikki Moore OR Chrish Bosh was a 3rd option stretch big with defensive versatility. He was never both at once and that's why he had to beg for all-star votes.

Siakam over Bosh all day, and it's not even close for me.

Bloody hell.

Mikki Moore turned into prime Bill Russell playing against the Raps when he was with the Nets.

[youreachiteach]

Bosh was far more naturally talented than Siakam but they forced him into playing a position he didn't want to play (center) and then made him dirty bulk to do it. Of course, he struggled in this situation. He also had very little help.

I didn't like his attitude, but at least he stuck it out for seven years and didn't demand out.

[Duffman100]

Bosh was far more naturally talented than Siakam but they forced him into playing a position he didn't want to play (center) and then made him dirty bulk to do it. Of course, he struggled in this situation. He also had very little help.

I didn't like his attitude, but at least he stuck it out for seven years and didn't demand out.

Bosh was good. Siakam was good. Both were good and relatively in the same tier of player. Bosh was probably slightly better.

[DreamTeam09]

Bosh was far more naturally talented than Siakam but they forced him into playing a position he didn't want to play (center) and then made him dirty bulk to do it. Of course, he struggled in this situation. He also had very little help.

I didn't like his attitude, but at least he stuck it out for seven years and didn't demand out.

Funny, the moment he left he went on to play centre for like 7 straight yrs before forced retirement

[YogurtProducer]

Yeah, that surrounding cast is the whole point. Remove Bosh/Siakam from the equation, and I'd take all the 2020 & 2022 starters over everyone else on the 2010 team.

Sure - lets just ignore the bench which was key weakness of 2020 and 2022 and was actually solid in 2010.

Swap benches of those teams and the 2020 team wins 50+ and that 2010 team wins 30.

Is the argument about the bench or the entire team surrounding Bosh/Siakam? The 2020 team came back with exactly the same supporting cast as the championship squad minus Danny Green (and Kawhi obviously, but had gone 17-5 without him the year before).
So if the argument is that Bosh had more help than that in any way shape or form, just stop already.

Your argument is that Siakam had more help - but also experienced more success - not sure what you are trying to say TBh

The initial argument was:

Chris Bosh is quite a bit better than Siakam.

Which is just a plain falsehood.