Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason

[brownbobcat]

Barnes - 10.1 mill
Barrett - 25.7mill
Dick - 4.7mill
Olynyk - 12.8mill
Jakob - 19.5mill
Ochai - 4.3mill
Boucher - 10.8mill
McDaniels - 4.7mill
#19 - 3.4mill
Quickly - cap hit 12.5mill
108.5mill
**Nwora - cap hit 3.7
112.2mill
+ 6ill or 10mill if we keep pick (1-6)

Salary cap is 141 this yr
Luxury tax is 172

They already said tho that we'll be operating above the cap this year, meaning they will pick up Browns option & look to trade him, + use the MLE. After that we'll resign quickly and still be under the tax.
With Boucher + McDaniels expiring which will tack onto Barnes salary for his extension next summer

$93M - Committed cap
$11M - Rookie capholds (changes depending on pick slot)

Let's say IQ's extension starts at $30M and they pick up Brown's option, that brings the total to $157M for 12 players. I don't want GTJ to walk for nothing, but you cannot overpay a player of his caliber - especially not when that comes with luxury tax consequences which limit trade flexibility. Ideally they'd get slightly lower on the IQ deal to get a bit more breathing room, but I think they will hold the line on GTJ at somewhere slightly above MLE. If they can't get IQ lower, I fully expect them to let GTJ walk and then try to split up the MLE on a few guys.

This include the rookie contracts?

Yes, those are the rookie capholds - obviously it would be less if the pick conveyed and more if it turned out to be #1.

[Psubs]

There is a higher chance that we do some sort of sign and trade involving Brown and Pat Will (where we throw them #19 or #31 as well) than there is we sign him as an RFA.

That is more interesting to discuss.

I wouldn't. Brown is better than PWill and we are looking to develop a wing in Gradey anyway. Now if we got a wing that was equal or better than Brown, consider me interested.

Brown is also how many years his senior and PatWill does something we need (wing defender / hits 3's).

2 Parts

Draft #11 and Lonzo for #19 and Bruce Brown.

Free Agency period: Bulls S&T Patrick Williams for Boucher, Agbaji and McDaniels.

[YogurtProducer]

I wouldn't. Brown is better than PWill and we are looking to develop a wing in Gradey anyway. Now if we got a wing that was equal or better than Brown, consider me interested.

Brown is also how many years his senior and PatWill does something we need (wing defender / hits 3's).

2 Parts

Draft #11 and Lonzo for #19 and Bruce Brown.

Free Agency period: Bulls S&T Patrick Williams for Boucher, Agbaji and McDaniels.

Can you explain why the Bulls drop 8 spots for a different expiring deal, and why they willingly take on Boucher and McDaniels instead of just keeping Pat?

[Pointgod]

$93M - Committed cap
$11M - Rookie capholds (changes depending on pick slot)

Let's say IQ's extension starts at $30M and they pick up Brown's option, that brings the total to $157M for 12 players. I don't want GTJ to walk for nothing, but you cannot overpay a player of his caliber - especially not when that comes with luxury tax consequences which limit trade flexibility. Ideally they'd get slightly lower on the IQ deal to get a bit more breathing room, but I think they will hold the line on GTJ at somewhere slightly above MLE. If they can't get IQ lower, I fully expect them to let GTJ walk and then try to split up the MLE on a few guys.

This include the rookie contracts?

Yes, those are the rookie capholds - obviously it would be less if the pick conveyed and more if it turned out to be #1.

Okay thanks for that. 157M for 12 players not including GTJ is what has me skeptical that this team is going to keep Brown. Even signing a MLE player puts us close to the tax and if you look at the free agent pool it’s pretty sparse. If we lose the pick I think that opens up things a bit more regarding bringing back Brown and/or GTJ.

[youngRAPZ]

Brown is also how many years his senior and PatWill does something we need (wing defender / hits 3's).

2 Parts

Draft #11 and Lonzo for #19 and Bruce Brown.

Free Agency period: Bulls S&T Patrick Williams for Boucher, Agbaji and McDaniels.

Can you explain why the Bulls drop 8 spots for a different expiring deal, and why they willingly take on Boucher and McDaniels instead of just keeping Pat?

Well brown will actually play lonzo won’t. Second part lol I don’t see happening as well.

[WaltFrazier]

Any chance of fixing the spelling mistake in thread title?

[ConSarnit]

Draft: take bpa at every slot, position doesn't matter. Except for Barnes I don't think there is anyone who cannot eventually be supplanted, especially if we hit on #6. Free Agents: keep Trent at around MLE money, anything more let him walk. IQ at 4/100. Option Brown in because I don't think we can do better in free agency. Room exception: fill position of need that was not addressed in draft, likely backup PG or C. If any solid offers come in for periphery guys (Poeltl, Boucher, etc) then move them. If not I'm fine holding onto them.

No major moves. If the team is looking good because of internal development that's great. That gives up optionality. There is no point in signing some middling free agent if the current core hasn't proven itself. There is no point squeezing out 3 extra wins if we're still looking like a bottom 8 team.

IQ/Draft or FA
Barrett/Trent/Agbaji
Dick?/Brown
Barnes/Olynyk
Poeltl/Draft or FA/Boucher

wildcards: JFL, #19, #31

Roster might need trimming given we have too many guys who need minutes (#6 and #19 might need playing time for the sake of development). Could see Trent or Boucher (or both) as the odd men out.

[brownbobcat]

Draft: take bpa at every slot, position doesn't matter. Except for Barnes I don't think there is anyone who cannot eventually be supplanted, especially if we hit on #6. Free Agents: keep Trent at around MLE money, anything more let him walk. IQ at 4/100. Option Brown in because I don't think we can do better in free agency. Room exception: fill position of need that was not addressed in draft, likely backup PG or C. If any solid offers come in for periphery guys (Poeltl, Boucher, etc) then move them. If not I'm fine holding onto them.

No major moves. If the team is looking good because of internal development that's great. That gives up optionality. There is no point in signing some middling free agent if the current core hasn't proven itself. There is no point squeezing out 3 extra wins if we're still looking like a bottom 8 team.

IQ/Draft or FA
Barrett/Trent/Agbaji
Dick?/Brown
Barnes/Olynyk
Poeltl/Draft or FA/Boucher

wildcards: JFL, #19, #31

Roster might need trimming given we have too many guys who need minutes (#6 and #19 might need playing time for the sake of development). Could see Trent or Boucher (or both) as the odd men out.

It sounds reductive, but we need a star - ideally more than 1. Can RJ or IQ reach that level? Possible, but they can't bank on that yet. As for tanking, I think that's out of the question as far as the FO is concerned unless next year becomes an unmitigated disaster and IQ/RJ/Barnes regress horribly. So while they need that star, they can't (or won't) blow things up.

That means returning the focus to accumulating assets and player development. It would be nice to turn GTJ into something, but there is simply no benefit to keeping that kind of player around for $20M+/yr.

They need to rack up small gains in the draft, at the margins, free agency and trades. Find young guys that actually have good value-for-money because of the production, potential or years of control. Splashing big money on guys like Pat Williams is a bad bet in search of a home run. They need to unearth bargains like they did in the past - Amir Johnson, Delon Wright, Lou Williams - cheap rotation-level guys.

[ConSarnit]

Draft: take bpa at every slot, position doesn't matter. Except for Barnes I don't think there is anyone who cannot eventually be supplanted, especially if we hit on #6. Free Agents: keep Trent at around MLE money, anything more let him walk. IQ at 4/100. Option Brown in because I don't think we can do better in free agency. Room exception: fill position of need that was not addressed in draft, likely backup PG or C. If any solid offers come in for periphery guys (Poeltl, Boucher, etc) then move them. If not I'm fine holding onto them.

No major moves. If the team is looking good because of internal development that's great. That gives up optionality. There is no point in signing some middling free agent if the current core hasn't proven itself. There is no point squeezing out 3 extra wins if we're still looking like a bottom 8 team.

IQ/Draft or FA
Barrett/Trent/Agbaji
Dick?/Brown
Barnes/Olynyk
Poeltl/Draft or FA/Boucher

wildcards: JFL, #19, #31

Roster might need trimming given we have too many guys who need minutes (#6 and #19 might need playing time for the sake of development). Could see Trent or Boucher (or both) as the odd men out.

It sounds reductive, but we need a star - ideally more than 1. Can RJ or IQ reach that level? Possible, but they can't bank on that yet. As for tanking, I think that's out of the question as far as the FO is concerned unless next year becomes an unmitigated disaster and IQ/RJ/Barnes regress horribly. So while they need that star, they can't (or won't) blow things up.

That means returning the focus to accumulating assets and player development. It would be nice to turn GTJ into something, but there is simply no benefit to keeping that kind of player around for $20M+/yr.

They need to rack up small gains in the draft, at the margins, free agency and trades. Find young guys that actually have good value-for-money because of the production, potential or years of control. Splashing big money on guys like Pat Williams is a bad bet in search of a home run. They need to unearth bargains like they did in the past - Amir Johnson, Delon Wright, Lou Williams - cheap rotation-level guys.

I am only in favor of keeping GTJ if we can get him around the MLE. While he might not be a long term fit here I think he might be tradable for value on that deal. GTJ at the MLE is "asset retention" imo. No one in their right mind should pay Trent $20m/yr.

I don't think this team will tank but I think the default might be losing next season. If there is focus on development that means playing Dick, #6, #19, Agbaji and maybe #31. That's not going to lead to wins. I try to play the game of "who are we jumping over next year?" Memphis is going to be much better. Spurs probably make a decent jump with 2nd year Wemby. Then we've got CHI, BKN, UTA and ATL right above us. Let's say 2-3 of those teams fall off. So we finish 9th worst instead of 6th worst? I'd say there is a pretty good chance we are bottom 10 again next year. I just don't think this team is going to be that good next year. If we are good and it comes from internal development, awesome.

[ArthurVandelay]

Draft: take bpa at every slot, position doesn't matter. Except for Barnes I don't think there is anyone who cannot eventually be supplanted, especially if we hit on #6. Free Agents: keep Trent at around MLE money, anything more let him walk. IQ at 4/100. Option Brown in because I don't think we can do better in free agency. Room exception: fill position of need that was not addressed in draft, likely backup PG or C. If any solid offers come in for periphery guys (Poeltl, Boucher, etc) then move them. If not I'm fine holding onto them.

No major moves. If the team is looking good because of internal development that's great. That gives up optionality. There is no point in signing some middling free agent if the current core hasn't proven itself. There is no point squeezing out 3 extra wins if we're still looking like a bottom 8 team.

IQ/Draft or FA
Barrett/Trent/Agbaji
Dick?/Brown
Barnes/Olynyk
Poeltl/Draft or FA/Boucher

wildcards: JFL, #19, #31

Roster might need trimming given we have too many guys who need minutes (#6 and #19 might need playing time for the sake of development). Could see Trent or Boucher (or both) as the odd men out.

It sounds reductive, but we need a star - ideally more than 1. Can RJ or IQ reach that level? Possible, but they can't bank on that yet. As for tanking, I think that's out of the question as far as the FO is concerned unless next year becomes an unmitigated disaster and IQ/RJ/Barnes regress horribly. So while they need that star, they can't (or won't) blow things up.

That means returning the focus to accumulating assets and player development. It would be nice to turn GTJ into something, but there is simply no benefit to keeping that kind of player around for $20M+/yr.

They need to rack up small gains in the draft, at the margins, free agency and trades. Find young guys that actually have good value-for-money because of the production, potential or years of control. Splashing big money on guys like Pat Williams is a bad bet in search of a home run. They need to unearth bargains like they did in the past - Amir Johnson, Delon Wright, Lou Williams - cheap rotation-level guys.

I am only in favor of keeping GTJ if we can get him around the MLE. While he might not be a long term fit here I think he might be tradable for value on that deal. GTJ at the MLE is "asset retention" imo. No one in their right mind should pay Trent $20m/yr.

I don't think this team will tank but I think the default might be losing next season. If there is focus on development that means playing Dick, #6, #19, Agbaji and maybe #31. That's not going to lead to wins. I try to play the game of "who are we jumping over next year?" Memphis is going to be much better. Spurs probably make a decent jump with 2nd year Wemby. Then we've got CHI, BKN, UTA and ATL right above us. Let's say 2-3 of those teams fall off. So we finish 9th worst instead of 6th worst? I'd say there is a pretty good chance we are bottom 10 again next year. I just don't think this team is going to be that good next year. If we are good and it comes from internal development, awesome.

Have to see what happens this summer of course but I agree, this team isn’t going to be good. The roster is very much in transition and developing.

[brownbobcat]

I am only in favor of keeping GTJ if we can get him around the MLE. While he might not be a long term fit here I think he might be tradable for value on that deal. GTJ at the MLE is "asset retention" imo. No one in their right mind should pay Trent $20m/yr.

I've seen some people here suggesting he should be getting $20-25M - they're crazy, of course, but it happens. GMs make bad decisions sometimes.

I don't think this team will tank but I think the default might be losing next season. If there is focus on development that means playing Dick, #6, #19, Agbaji and maybe #31. That's not going to lead to wins. I try to play the game of "who are we jumping over next year?" Memphis is going to be much better. Spurs probably make a decent jump with 2nd year Wemby. Then we've got CHI, BKN, UTA and ATL right above us. Let's say 2-3 of those teams fall off. So we finish 9th worst instead of 6th worst? I'd say there is a pretty good chance we are bottom 10 again next year. I just don't think this team is going to be that good next year. If we are good and it comes from internal development, awesome.

Oh I think they'll probably suck, but just not actively tanking. They're going to give BBQ the full season as a core to see if there's something there. There's probably no point trading Poeltl for a while. He's not worth much and you still need somebody at C, if for no other reason than to avoid playing guys out of position.

[TimeForChange]

sign JV as the back up 5
bring back GTJ
draft a wing and/or guard
trade Brown or re-sign him to a new long term deal

[TGM]

People keep saying trade Jakob. Then who plays Center for us?

Our young core is decent so I think those hoping for an absolutely tank are being delusional and underestimating the potential of this team. Trading Jakob puts us in legit treadmill territory. We are much closer to being a contender than a top 3 lottery team. So if anything you kee you starting C to help grow with the young core and aim to add another piece. You can’t deny that we may have 3 players already with all-star potential. So if a super star were made available I’m sure we would swing for it.

[GoRapstheoriginal]

2 more sleeps.

[ConSarnit]

People keep saying trade Jakob. Then who plays Center for us?

Our young core is decent so I think those hoping for an absolutely tank are being delusional and underestimating the potential of this team. Trading Jakob puts us in legit treadmill territory. We are much closer to being a contender than a top 3 lottery team. So if anything you kee you starting C to help grow with the young core and aim to add another piece. You can’t deny that we may have 3 players already with all-star potential. So if a super star were made available I’m sure we would swing for it.

To be a contender you have to be a top 5 team in the league. We are way closer to being a bottom 3 team than we are a contender. What do you think is more likely, we win 30 games next year or 50?

Trading Poeltl doesn’t put us in treadmill territory, it’s puts us in bottom 3 in the league territory. Treadmill teams are usually hovering around the 8th seed. We are already below that level WITH Poeltl.

[OAKLEY_2]

People keep saying trade Jakob. Then who plays Center for us?

Our young core is decent so I think those hoping for an absolutely tank are being delusional and underestimating the potential of this team. Trading Jakob puts us in legit treadmill territory. We are much closer to being a contender than a top 3 lottery team. So if anything you kee you starting C to help grow with the young core and aim to add another piece. You can’t deny that we may have 3 players already with all-star potential. So if a super star were made available I’m sure we would swing for it.

To be a contender you have to be a top 5 team in the league. We are way closer to being a bottom 3 team than we are a contender. What do you think is more likely, we win 30 games next year or 50?

Trading Poeltl doesn’t put us in treadmill territory, it’s puts us in bottom 3 in the league territory. Treadmill teams are usually hovering around the 8th seed. We are already below that level WITH Poeltl.

We won't trade Poetl so seems pointless to do hypotheticals. If anything we need a solid back-up prospect to mop up at the 5 and to let Kelly play mostly at the 4. If I was trading Poetl I would look for another version of what he brings and that is he makes others better especially new developing players. I am not going to pretend I know how to contruct a contender. Presti has constructed one twice and has yet to win it all. Masai cobbled together unlikely contention and a title by not trading Colangelo's "future of the point guard position", by getting some depth return for mostly useless Rudy Gay and trading Demar Derozan for an injury riddled and disgruntled champion in Kawhi and all on an obvious one year rental. Could any person conceive that the Rudy trade would change the direction to one of winning and that an offseason hail mary would take Lebronto challenged playoff exits over the top? Ibaka and Gasol were important finishing touches. That was not in the manual on how to build a contender.

Milwaukee drafted Giannis and that one stroke of luck led to a title. Philly did the Hinke process, eventually drafted Embiid and is still without title.

Who we draft at 19 will not change our course.

[ConSarnit]

People keep saying trade Jakob. Then who plays Center for us?

Our young core is decent so I think those hoping for an absolutely tank are being delusional and underestimating the potential of this team. Trading Jakob puts us in legit treadmill territory. We are much closer to being a contender than a top 3 lottery team. So if anything you kee you starting C to help grow with the young core and aim to add another piece. You can’t deny that we may have 3 players already with all-star potential. So if a super star were made available I’m sure we would swing for it.

To be a contender you have to be a top 5 team in the league. We are way closer to being a bottom 3 team than we are a contender. What do you think is more likely, we win 30 games next year or 50?

Trading Poeltl doesn’t put us in treadmill territory, it’s puts us in bottom 3 in the league territory. Treadmill teams are usually hovering around the 8th seed. We are already below that level WITH Poeltl.

We won't trade Poetl so seems pointless to do hypotheticals. If anything we need a solid back-up prospect to mop up at the 5 and to let Kelly play mostly at the 4. If I was trading Poetl I would look for another version of what he brings and that is he makes others better especially new developing players. I am not going to pretend I know how to contruct a contender. Presti has constructed one twice and has yet to win it all. Masai cobbled together unlikely contention and a title by not trading Colangelo's "future of the point guard position", by getting some depth return for mostly useless Rudy Gay and trading Demar Derozan for an injury riddled and disgruntled champion in Kawhi and all on an obvious one year rental. Could any person conceive that the Rudy trade would change the direction to one of winning and that an offseason hail mary would take Lebronto challenged playoff exits over the top? Ibaka and Gasol were important finishing touches. That was not in the manual on how to build a contender.

Milwaukee drafted Giannis and that one stroke of luck led to a title. Philly did the Hinke process, eventually drafted Embiid and is still without title.

Who we draft at 19 will not change our course.

Sorry, I’m a little lost. If we trade Poeltl we need to look for another version of Poeltl? If we trade Poeltl I think that’s a sign we’re going to tank (I don’t think we are actually going to tank, at least not to start the season). Either way, I doubt we trade Poeltl because I don’t think his market is that strong so a) it doesn’t make sense to trade him if the offer is meh and b) it looks pretty bad to trade Poeltl for (likely) something much worse than the top 10 pick we may or may not give up soon to the Spurs. I would hope the front office would not let optics stop them from making moves that are in the best interest of the team long term.

As for adding a finishing piece like Gasol, that seems to be directly in the manual for how teams try to build title teams.

[tdotrep2]

Draft a a decent prospect with the 6th pick, sign 1 vet for the mle, tank again and pray san antonio doesnt get our pick... lol

[GoRapstheoriginal]

3 pm tomorrow ET on Sportsnet One

[djsunyc]

i think on a macro level, teams need the following:

- half court iso scorer
- multiple players that can hit 3's
- defense

the degree of which teams have those will determine how much they can win.

our defense is pretty bad but i think that's a coaching/system thing. we don't have an iso half court scorer yet. we have a few guys that can hit 3's. we have alot of needs but also have alot of ways to address them. will take a few years.