GT: There is a Game Today - Raps@Nets 7:30 EST

[Chandan]

Scottie is a 4, through and through.

And if we had a PF type that "replaces everything missing from Siakam and OG", he would be a perennial MVP. While we're at it, all this team needs now is a Michael Jordan type SG

Shocked that people think Scottie is a 3 lol.

The ideal situation would be for Scottie to be a 4 so he can provide elite help side defence not be stuck on wings.

RJ to be a 6th man or guard 2’s as the SG. We’ll never be a great defensive team if RJ is the 3.

I don't think Scottie wants to be a four man. Maybe being a freeroamer on defense is four-like but on offense he wants to be an elite player and the best position for him to be elite is the three. He is building his handle and shot creation to be a big wing not a guy who sits in the post.

No Siakam, OG or even Precious has shown how we lost frontcourt support. You guys would think the constant beatdowns in points in the paint would illustrate the gaps we have.

well, he cant be an elite 3 unless he vastly increase his bag.

[ArthurVandelay]

Dude, they will be one of the youngest teams in the playoffs with control of all of their draft picks. Fred/Siakam/Poeltl are already in the primes so there's a massive difference.

You guys underrate the value of defense. For a young team to be so elite at that end is amazing. Now I don't think they have OKCs type ceiling but that doesn't mean their young guys can't keep taking steps forward.

I’m not underrating their D

As currently constructed I don’t see them going anywhere.

But they do have a lot of flexibility.

They need to make some changes sooner than later imo, luckily they have the means to do it.

All of that is a reasonable observation and Orlando isn't OKC, but you can't praise Toronto's potential at the same time. Maybe Banchero ain't it, but he has shown every bit the potential Barnes did at the same age. Wagner is younger than Barnes and he's plateaued? Absurd.

Oh I’m not praising Toronto lol. Where’d I do that?

[Los_29]

If we tanked for 4 years and ended up with a Banchero/Suggs/Franz core then this forum would be a very depressing place and many people’s ideas of tanking would have changed dramatically.

Whether we like to admit it or not, that’s a bad outcome. OKC’s tank would’ve been a bad outcome as well had the Paul George trade not happened.

[TorontoBarneys]

Quickly is apparently pretty good.

[brownbobcat]

Oh I’m not praising Toronto lol. Where’d I do that?

Perhaps "praise" is too strong, but preferring the Raptors current situation over Orlando's is definitely a stance. They have a potential star in Banchero, a few solid pieces all under 25, all their picks, cap room, and they're winning games - that's not a bad place to be.

[Scase]

If we tanked for 4 years and ended up with a Banchero/Suggs/Franz core then this forum would be a very depressing place and many people’s ideas of tanking would have changed dramatically.

Whether we like to admit it or not, that’s a bad outcome. OKC’s tank would’ve been a bad outcome as well had the Paul George trade not happened.

Yeah, I'm sure the entire board would be up in arms being 2 games out of 2nd place in the east, only the 2nd year after finishing 13th in the east, missing the playoffs, and having a 34-48 record.

Man some of the stuff you say is just baffling.

[Potential]

I get Orlando is having a great year especially because of their defense. But they badly need to add offensive weapons or else they're just going to cap out at being another Cavs team.

[JB7]

Oh I’m not praising Toronto lol. Where’d I do that?

Perhaps "praise" is too strong, but preferring the Raptors current situation over Orlando's is definitely a stance. They have a potential star in Banchero, a few solid pieces all under 25, all their picks, cap room, and they're winning games - that's not a bad place to be.

First off, the East is crap. The fact that Orlando as currently constructed, was almost contending for the 3rd seed, does not speak well of the East.

But, with the 3rd seed a possibility, Magic then went and lost to the Rockets and Bucks (who had lost 6 of their last 8 games). They finish off against the Sixers and Bucks. Let's see if the can win some real games, where teams are trying.

As well as Orlando has played this year, driven by their D, I just don't like the construction of their roster. Looking a lot like the old Raps roster built around length and D, with no O.

I think I actually prefer the new young core for the Raps (Barnes, RJ, IQ & Dick) over the Magic (Banchero, Franz, Suggs, Black).

[DelAbbot]

You guys obviously never watched Banchero play

Banchero = Barnes
Franz > RJ
Sugg = IQ (considering defense)
Black > Dick

[JB7]

You guys obviously never watched Banchero play

Banchero = Barnes
Franz >> RJ
Sugg = IQ (considering defense)
Black > Dick

If you had to choose between Barnes and Banchero, to build a team around, who would you pick? For me its Barnes all the way.
I think RJ is at least equal to Franz, if not better.
With the way Suggs has improved on shooting, and his defense being far superior, I agree that is probably equal.
Have not really seen enough of Black to determine if he is better.

To me the big difference between the two cores is the Raps 4 are all potential shot makers, whereas funny enough, Suggs seems to have the best shooting percentage of their 4 now. In a league now built on offense, being able to hit shots trumps D.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

You guys obviously never watched Banchero play

Banchero = Barnes
Franz > RJ
Sugg = IQ (considering defense)
Black > Dick

Quick is better than Suggs, and Yak is way better than Carter jr.

[HiJiNX]

Oh I’m not praising Toronto lol. Where’d I do that?

Perhaps "praise" is too strong, but preferring the Raptors current situation over Orlando's is definitely a stance. They have a potential star in Banchero, a few solid pieces all under 25, all their picks, cap room, and they're winning games - that's not a bad place to be.

First off, the East is crap. The fact that Orlando as currently constructed, was almost contending for the 3rd seed, does not speak well of the East.

But, with the 3rd seed a possibility, Magic then went and lost to the Rockets and Bucks (who had lost 6 of their last 8 games). They finish off against the Sixers and Bucks. Let's see if the can win some real games, where teams are trying.

As well as Orlando has played this year, driven by their D, I just don't like the construction of their roster. Looking a lot like the old Raps roster built around length and D, with no O.

I think I actually prefer the new young core for the Raps (Barnes, RJ, IQ & Dick) over the Magic (Banchero, Franz, Suggs, Black).

Agreed. When I look at Orlando I see Banchero as a guy with number one option tools but not enough killer instinct. Then I always thought Franz was one of those guys who comes in close to his ceiling. When you looked at his first two years what stood out was how competent he was at everything. But the issue with that is it’s like he already maxed out his skill points and the result was a dope ass role player but not a star. Okay and then you have Suggs who is a great defender but only an average offensive player with some scoring limitations I’m not sure he’ll get over. And Anthony Black is in the same mold as Suggs, just bigger. Looking at that group, none of those project to be elite in the pecking order they currently have. They’d all benefit from having a player better than all of them on the team to shift those guys into their proper roles.

As for us? I think that Barnes, IQ, RJ and Dick each are farther from their ceilings than the Orlando foursome. So if all works out for the best then we have a great core going forward, a team that I think wins 50 games +/- 2 in the year after next.

I’m not sure Banchero truly wants to be the guy. Or if he wants it, he’s just not mean enough in a way. I don’t imagine him being the type of guy to take a matchup personal and sometimes you need that from your best player (like Jokic with Gobert last night). Maybe he develops that but I find that developing a killer instinct is rare. Really really talented guy, though. He just lacks that extra edge. That’s one of the things I like about Barnes. He’s got a little nastiness in him. And he shows up against superstars. If he can develop the skills to go with his other tools then he becomes a bit of a scary player.

[sbsat]

If we tanked for 4 years and ended up with a Banchero/Suggs/Franz core then this forum would be a very depressing place and many people’s ideas of tanking would have changed dramatically.

Whether we like to admit it or not, that’s a bad outcome. OKC’s tank would’ve been a bad outcome as well had the Paul George trade not happened.

Yeah, I'm sure the entire board would be up in arms being 2 games out of 2nd place in the east, only the 2nd year after finishing 13th in the east, missing the playoffs, and having a 34-48 record.

Man some of the stuff you say is just baffling.

Yes this board would up on arms there is no doubt. And look at how they are finishing the year, they are losing some pretty brutal games. Just to remind you, ppl on here still advocate that we shouldve liquidated our roster immediately after the championship.... Despite knowing how well we did in 2019-20. Also recall we had some extremely good years in the dd lowry era and all ppl dod on here was b.itch.

This is what ppl wanted we have youth and have hit the reset. Enjoy the results

[sbsat]

Perhaps "praise" is too strong, but preferring the Raptors current situation over Orlando's is definitely a stance. They have a potential star in Banchero, a few solid pieces all under 25, all their picks, cap room, and they're winning games - that's not a bad place to be.

First off, the East is crap. The fact that Orlando as currently constructed, was almost contending for the 3rd seed, does not speak well of the East.

But, with the 3rd seed a possibility, Magic then went and lost to the Rockets and Bucks (who had lost 6 of their last 8 games). They finish off against the Sixers and Bucks. Let's see if the can win some real games, where teams are trying.

As well as Orlando has played this year, driven by their D, I just don't like the construction of their roster. Looking a lot like the old Raps roster built around length and D, with no O.

I think I actually prefer the new young core for the Raps (Barnes, RJ, IQ & Dick) over the Magic (Banchero, Franz, Suggs, Black).

Agreed. When I look at Orlando I see Banchero as a guy with number one option tools but not enough killer instinct. Then I always thought Franz was one of those guys who comes in close to his ceiling. When you looked at his first two years what stood out was how competent he was at everything. But the issue with that is it’s like he already maxed out his skill points and the result was a dope ass role player but not a star. Okay and then you have Suggs who is a great defender but only an average offensive player with some scoring limitations I’m not sure he’ll get over. And Anthony Black is in the same mold as Suggs, just bigger. Looking at that group, none of those project to be elite in the pecking order they currently have. They’d all benefit from having a player better than all of them on the team to shift those guys into their proper roles.

As for us? I think that Barnes, IQ, RJ and Dick each are farther from their ceilings than the Orlando foursome. So if all works out for the best then we have a great core going forward, a team that I think wins 50 games +/- 2 in the year after next.

I’m not sure Banchero truly wants to be the guy. Or if he wants it, he’s just not mean enough in a way. I don’t imagine him being the type of guy to take a matchup personal and sometimes you need that from your best player (like Jokic with Gobert last night). Maybe he develops that but I find that developing a killer instinct is rare. Really really talented guy, though. He just lacks that extra edge. That’s one of the things I like about Barnes. He’s got a little nastiness in him. And he shows up against superstars. If he can develop the skills to go with his other tools then he becomes a bit of a scary player.

Orlando has a decent ser of core youth but i think they are all limited on some capcity. They need to make a bold signing or trade to take things further it seems. Not sure they have the right coach either

[NinjaBro]

You guys obviously never watched Banchero play

Banchero = Barnes
Franz > RJ
Sugg = IQ (considering defense)
Black > Dick

Bookmarked

We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffen before it's too late! - PhilBlackson

[DelAbbot]

You guys obviously never watched Banchero play

Banchero = Barnes
Franz >> RJ
Sugg = IQ (considering defense)
Black > Dick

If you had to choose between Barnes and Banchero, to build a team around, who would you pick? For me its Barnes all the way.
I think RJ is at least equal to Franz, if not better.
With the way Suggs has improved on shooting, and his defense being far superior, I agree that is probably equal.
Have not really seen enough of Black to determine if he is better.

To me the big difference between the two cores is the Raps 4 are all potential shot makers, whereas funny enough, Suggs seems to have the best shooting percentage of their 4 now. In a league now built on offense, being able to hit shots trumps D.

Banchero has higher offensive upside than Barnes. Banchero's handle and quickness is at a different level than Barnes. While Barnes' vision is at a level that Banchero may not ever reach. Overall though, I expect Banchero's passing to close the gap to Barnes (70%), but Barnes' (lateral) quickness will likely never improve much (a physical trait that cannot be trained) - so Banchero has higher offensive upside as a #1 option than Barnes.

Banchero reminds me of a bigger Kenyon Martin with a 3pt shot.

[ArthurVandelay]

Oh I’m not praising Toronto lol. Where’d I do that?

Perhaps "praise" is too strong, but preferring the Raptors current situation over Orlando's is definitely a stance. They have a potential star in Banchero, a few solid pieces all under 25, all their picks, cap room, and they're winning games - that's not a bad place to be.

All true but unless they make significant improvement this summer, I see them getting stuck.

Banchero isn’t an efficient first option. He needs to significantly improve or they need to find one.

I see them reaching a point like current Kings. No doubt they have time to address it or even avoid it

[ArthurVandelay]

Oh I’m not praising Toronto lol. Where’d I do that?

Perhaps "praise" is too strong, but preferring the Raptors current situation over Orlando's is definitely a stance. They have a potential star in Banchero, a few solid pieces all under 25, all their picks, cap room, and they're winning games - that's not a bad place to be.

First off, the East is crap. The fact that Orlando as currently constructed, was almost contending for the 3rd seed, does not speak well of the East.

But, with the 3rd seed a possibility, Magic then went and lost to the Rockets and Bucks (who had lost 6 of their last 8 games). They finish off against the Sixers and Bucks. Let's see if the can win some real games, where teams are trying.

As well as Orlando has played this year, driven by their D, I just don't like the construction of their roster. Looking a lot like the old Raps roster built around length and D, with no O.

I think I actually prefer the new young core for the Raps (Barnes, RJ, IQ & Dick) over the Magic (Banchero, Franz, Suggs, Black).

Magic are 18-22 on the road after loss to Bucks

Good Winning % on road is hallmark of a good team

[ArthurVandelay]

You guys obviously never watched Banchero play

Banchero = Barnes
Franz > RJ
Sugg = IQ (considering defense)
Black > Dick

You obviously never watched Banchero play

lol - real insight there

[YogurtProducer]

If we tanked for 4 years and ended up with a Banchero/Suggs/Franz core then this forum would be a very depressing place and many people’s ideas of tanking would have changed dramatically.

Whether we like to admit it or not, that’s a bad outcome. OKC’s tank would’ve been a bad outcome as well had the Paul George trade not happened.

Yeah, I'm sure the entire board would be up in arms being 2 games out of 2nd place in the east, only the 2nd year after finishing 13th in the east, missing the playoffs, and having a 34-48 record.

Man some of the stuff you say is just baffling.

You mean like we were in 2022 when we won 48 games and were 3 games out of 2nd place in the east, only a year after finishing 12th in the East?

Back then, you said anyone who was even moderately optimistic as "Homers" or "Masai nut huggers". So don't act like if we have Banchero / Wanger / Franz instead of Barnes / Siakam / Anunoby suddenly your tune would change.

No - you were not happy. So STFU with the revisionism.