Bobby Webster speaks about the core/future

[VanWest82]

100%

Reading the likes of Wolstat, Smith, etc. I'm shocked at how eager they are to get back to .500 and likely stay there.

They are one injury to or trade of Poeltl away from being a very bad to (as opposed to a meh team now).

The Raptors were able to keep getting better from 2013-2019 because they were hitting most of their picks and consolidating players via trade to upgrade. To do that, you need an asset base. Right now the cupboard is bare, so yeah, tanking is the best route.

This isn't a playoff team and they aren't likely to get more than 9 or 10 for the play in. Fwiw, I doubt Masai tanks.

If you believe even at little bit in BBQ organizationally then setting out to tank is a non-starter. Those guys are entering their prime. If you're advocating for a tank, you're really advocating for trading Scottie and RJ because even if you don't trade them but tear down everything around them, you're going to lose their buy-in so you'll just wind up having to trade them eventually anyway.

Any tank from this point forward needs to involve initially trying to win followed by injuries or whatever bad luck that forces Raptor's hand so they have cover for their core players who surely want to win now.

They only need to trade Poeltl to tank

Play the season without a good C while continuing to implement Darko’s offensive philosophies

You only lose the players buy-in when you either don’t communicate the plan or they aren’t part of the plan.

They are 3-4 months into a rebuild. Expecting to turn this team around in half a season is extremely naive.

Disagree. You can communicate the plan and attempt to solicit buy-in all you want but if you're intentionally trying to lose from the outset and meanwhile your core players feel like they're good enough to win now then you're going to have problems. And frankly, Raps would have much bigger issues if their core guys didn't have that mindset because it'd strongly indicate they don't have the right core.

[bballsparkin]

The Bulls might not have that choice when they lose their best player (Demar) to FA and probably are unable to really replace him at all. Vuc is up there in age, and Lavine is gone. Even if they dont want to be bad, they are going to be.


We essentially chose proven players over picks that A) might never convey and B) if they do convey still might not be any good

IQ / RJ / Brown / Olynyk / Agbaji or those firsts?

No **** you would love to have all those picks, but you got to give to get.

Chicago is a good market perhaps they make a nice signing. Ditching LaVine I believe would help. Even if they don't, they could rehab his value simply by moving on from DeMar and Vuc and surrounding Zach with defence.

It's like you took my comment as some sort of admonition of the Raptors FO. I simply said I was jealous of the picks they have. And I am. I like picks. So sue me. I'm fine with the decisions the FO has made. I'd rather collect picks and gun for a star but it's not my financial losses if they go that route. And thus I understand why they opted for the more proven commodities in players like RJ and IQ.

I actually think the Raptors are situated well. No bad contracts. Aside from the pick owed to the Spurs our pick situation is good. I even like Bruce Brown. That said, it would be fun IMHO to be experiencing what the Spurs are now. Mystery boxes are fun and they have some nice options. Even if those picks are "overrated".

[ArthurVandelay]

If you believe even at little bit in BBQ organizationally then setting out to tank is a non-starter. Those guys are entering their prime. If you're advocating for a tank, you're really advocating for trading Scottie and RJ because even if you don't trade them but tear down everything around them, you're going to lose their buy-in so you'll just wind up having to trade them eventually anyway.

Any tank from this point forward needs to involve initially trying to win followed by injuries or whatever bad luck that forces Raptor's hand so they have cover for their core players who surely want to win now.

They only need to trade Poeltl to tank

Play the season without a good C while continuing to implement Darko’s offensive philosophies

You only lose the players buy-in when you either don’t communicate the plan or they aren’t part of the plan.

They are 3-4 months into a rebuild. Expecting to turn this team around in half a season is extremely naive.

Disagree. You can communicate the plan and attempt to solicit buy-in all you want but if you're intentionally trying to lose from the outset and meanwhile your core players feel like they're good enough to win now then you're going to have problems. And frankly, Raps would have much bigger issues if their core guys didn't have that mindset because it'd strongly indicate they don't have the right core.

How did what I describe workout for SGA and OKC? That is exactly what they did.

[YogurtProducer]

The Bulls might not have that choice when they lose their best player (Demar) to FA and probably are unable to really replace him at all. Vuc is up there in age, and Lavine is gone. Even if they dont want to be bad, they are going to be.


We essentially chose proven players over picks that A) might never convey and B) if they do convey still might not be any good

IQ / RJ / Brown / Olynyk / Agbaji or those firsts?

No **** you would love to have all those picks, but you got to give to get.

Chicago is a good market perhaps they make a nice signing. Ditching LaVine I believe would help. Even if they don't, they could rehab his value simply by moving on from DeMar and Vuc and surrounding Zach with defence.

It's like you took my comment as some sort of admonition of the Raptors FO. I simply said I was jealous of the picks they have. And I am. I like picks. So sue me. I'm fine with the decisions the FO has made. I'd rather collect picks and gun for a star but it's not my financial losses if they go that route. And thus I understand why they opted for the more proven commodities in players like RJ and IQ.

I actually think the Raptors are situated well. No bad contracts. Aside from the pick owed to the Spurs our pick situation is good. I even like Bruce Brown. That said, it would be fun IMHO to be experiencing what the Spurs are now. Mystery boxes are fun and they have some nice options. Even if those picks are "overrated".

Not really, I simply pointed out that the laundry list of picks makes it look a lot longer and more significant than it really is.

Half of those picks will never convey, or if they do, won't be that great of picks and you easily would take guys like IQ or RJ over them.

[VanWest82]

100%

Reading the likes of Wolstat, Smith, etc. I'm shocked at how eager they are to get back to .500 and likely stay there.

They are one injury to or trade of Poeltl away from being a very bad to (as opposed to a meh team now).

The Raptors were able to keep getting better from 2013-2019 because they were hitting most of their picks and consolidating players via trade to upgrade. To do that, you need an asset base. Right now the cupboard is bare, so yeah, tanking is the best route.

This isn't a playoff team and they aren't likely to get more than 9 or 10 for the play in. Fwiw, I doubt Masai tanks.

If you believe even at little bit in BBQ organizationally then setting out to tank is a non-starter. Those guys are entering their prime. If you're advocating for a tank, you're really advocating for trading Scottie and RJ because even if you don't trade them but tear down everything around them, you're going to lose their buy-in so you'll just wind up having to trade them eventually anyway.

Any tank from this point forward needs to involve initially trying to win followed by injuries or whatever bad luck that forces Raptor's hand so they have cover for their core players who surely want to win now.

Call me crazy, but I was always under the impression that a basketball players prime is around 27/28. The 3 of them are going to be 23/24/25 at the start of next season, they are plenty of years outside their primes. We have time.

Ultimately you do what is best for the team, if tanking results in another high end/talented prospect which will build on that team and put them in a much better place a few years from now, you do it. Personally I think that core is destined to be the Hawks of the 2000's seeing the second round and not much else, unless somehow Scottie turns into an MVP calibre player that is.

This team is devoid of talent, and we aren't getting that talent from the 18th pick in the draft.

RJ is going into year 6. Quickley is going into year 5. Scottie is going into year 4. These are young veterans who are ready to win.

How is it best for the team to lose buy-in from your best players?

If Raps think like you do that the ceiling for these guys is 2nd round tops, then they're better off trading them now and tanking. Personally, I think they have better potential than that and that Raps should slow build with smart drafts/trades/signings. BY FAR the worst option is to try and lose on purpose right from the outset with the best players still on the roster. It sends the message that you don't believe in them but are also holding back their careers. Other players/teams will also see this and not want to play for Raptors. Our rep as an organization will sink to the point where potential draft picks are saying don't draft me.

[VanWest82]

They only need to trade Poeltl to tank

Play the season without a good C while continuing to implement Darko’s offensive philosophies

You only lose the players buy-in when you either don’t communicate the plan or they aren’t part of the plan.

They are 3-4 months into a rebuild. Expecting to turn this team around in half a season is extremely naive.

Disagree. You can communicate the plan and attempt to solicit buy-in all you want but if you're intentionally trying to lose from the outset and meanwhile your core players feel like they're good enough to win now then you're going to have problems. And frankly, Raps would have much bigger issues if their core guys didn't have that mindset because it'd strongly indicate they don't have the right core.

How did what I describe workout for SGA and OKC? That is exactly what they did.

It was just young SGA and Dort. Imagine if it was year 6 SGA, year 5 JWill, and year 4 Chet coming off a horrible season filled with trades and injuries, and you were trying to convince those guys to embrace a tank. No way they'd sign up for that.

[bballsparkin]

Not really, I simply pointed out that the laundry list of picks makes it look a lot longer and more significant than it really is.

Half of those picks will never convey, or if they do, won't be that great of picks and you easily would take guys like IQ or RJ over them.

We shall see.

[ArthurVandelay]

If you believe even at little bit in BBQ organizationally then setting out to tank is a non-starter. Those guys are entering their prime. If you're advocating for a tank, you're really advocating for trading Scottie and RJ because even if you don't trade them but tear down everything around them, you're going to lose their buy-in so you'll just wind up having to trade them eventually anyway.

Any tank from this point forward needs to involve initially trying to win followed by injuries or whatever bad luck that forces Raptor's hand so they have cover for their core players who surely want to win now.

Call me crazy, but I was always under the impression that a basketball players prime is around 27/28. The 3 of them are going to be 23/24/25 at the start of next season, they are plenty of years outside their primes. We have time.

Ultimately you do what is best for the team, if tanking results in another high end/talented prospect which will build on that team and put them in a much better place a few years from now, you do it. Personally I think that core is destined to be the Hawks of the 2000's seeing the second round and not much else, unless somehow Scottie turns into an MVP calibre player that is.

This team is devoid of talent, and we aren't getting that talent from the 18th pick in the draft.

RJ is going into year 6. Quickley is going into year 5. Scottie is going into year 4. These are young veterans who are ready to win.

How is it best for the team to lose buy-in from your best players?

If Raps think like you do that the ceiling for these guys is 2nd round tops, then they're better off trading them now and tanking. Personally, I think they have better potential than that and that Raps should slow build with smart drafts/trades/signings. BY FAR the worst option is to try and lose on purpose right from the outset with the best players still on the roster. It sends the message that you don't believe in them but are also holding back their careers. Other players/teams will also see this and not want to play for Raptors. Our rep as an organization will sink to the point where potential draft picks are saying don't draft me.

They’ll be 23/24/25 next season.

For perspective when the Raptors finally turned it around in 2013-2014, DD was 25 and Lowry was 28. Neither had been an all-star yet. There is time. Plus they will all be locked into contracts.

Fwiw, my tank window would only be open for 1 season.

[YogurtProducer]

Not really, I simply pointed out that the laundry list of picks makes it look a lot longer and more significant than it really is.

Half of those picks will never convey, or if they do, won't be that great of picks and you easily would take guys like IQ or RJ over them.

We shall see.

Serious question - how many of those picks do you think will actually convey? The original list had 7 first rounders on it.

[Scase]

If you believe even at little bit in BBQ organizationally then setting out to tank is a non-starter. Those guys are entering their prime. If you're advocating for a tank, you're really advocating for trading Scottie and RJ because even if you don't trade them but tear down everything around them, you're going to lose their buy-in so you'll just wind up having to trade them eventually anyway.

Any tank from this point forward needs to involve initially trying to win followed by injuries or whatever bad luck that forces Raptor's hand so they have cover for their core players who surely want to win now.

Call me crazy, but I was always under the impression that a basketball players prime is around 27/28. The 3 of them are going to be 23/24/25 at the start of next season, they are plenty of years outside their primes. We have time.

Ultimately you do what is best for the team, if tanking results in another high end/talented prospect which will build on that team and put them in a much better place a few years from now, you do it. Personally I think that core is destined to be the Hawks of the 2000's seeing the second round and not much else, unless somehow Scottie turns into an MVP calibre player that is.

This team is devoid of talent, and we aren't getting that talent from the 18th pick in the draft.

RJ is going into year 6. Quickley is going into year 5. Scottie is going into year 4. These are young veterans who are ready to win.

How is it best for the team to lose buy-in from your best players?

If Raps think like you do that the ceiling for these guys is 2nd round tops, then they're better off trading them now and tanking. Personally, I think they have better potential than that and that Raps should slow build with smart drafts/trades/signings. BY FAR the worst option is to try and lose on purpose right from the outset with the best players still on the roster. It sends the message that you don't believe in them but are also holding back their careers. Other players/teams will also see this and not want to play for Raptors. Our rep as an organization will sink to the point where potential draft picks are saying don't draft me.

My friend, players already don't want to play here, the draft is our only meaningful way to get good players, and keep them for upwards of 7 years. No player is saying "don't draft me".

If you think burning 1 more year tanking is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back with this current core, then they aren't worth keeping. The team has been tanking bad for like a couple months, we are not the pistons.

[VanWest82]

Call me crazy, but I was always under the impression that a basketball players prime is around 27/28. The 3 of them are going to be 23/24/25 at the start of next season, they are plenty of years outside their primes. We have time.

Ultimately you do what is best for the team, if tanking results in another high end/talented prospect which will build on that team and put them in a much better place a few years from now, you do it. Personally I think that core is destined to be the Hawks of the 2000's seeing the second round and not much else, unless somehow Scottie turns into an MVP calibre player that is.

This team is devoid of talent, and we aren't getting that talent from the 18th pick in the draft.

RJ is going into year 6. Quickley is going into year 5. Scottie is going into year 4. These are young veterans who are ready to win.

How is it best for the team to lose buy-in from your best players?

If Raps think like you do that the ceiling for these guys is 2nd round tops, then they're better off trading them now and tanking. Personally, I think they have better potential than that and that Raps should slow build with smart drafts/trades/signings. BY FAR the worst option is to try and lose on purpose right from the outset with the best players still on the roster. It sends the message that you don't believe in them but are also holding back their careers. Other players/teams will also see this and not want to play for Raptors. Our rep as an organization will sink to the point where potential draft picks are saying don't draft me.

They’ll be 23/24/25 next season.

For perspective when the Raptors finally turned it around in 2013-2014, DD was 25 and Lowry was 28. Neither had been an all-star yet. There is time. Plus they will all be locked into contracts.

Fwiw, my tank window would only be open for 1 season.

Yeah, I just think it's super dangerous. Experience/talent is more important than age. If anything, age hurts your argument here because these guys are less mature and more likely to take even a one year intentional tank as a shot across the bow.

Also, we tried to win in 13/14. When it didn't work, we tried to trade Lowry. When that didn't work, we re-tooled with the Sac package and kept trying to slow build even though our top end talent was similar to this group. That led to a title.

[ArthurVandelay]

Disagree. You can communicate the plan and attempt to solicit buy-in all you want but if you're intentionally trying to lose from the outset and meanwhile your core players feel like they're good enough to win now then you're going to have problems. And frankly, Raps would have much bigger issues if their core guys didn't have that mindset because it'd strongly indicate they don't have the right core.

How did what I describe workout for SGA and OKC? That is exactly what they did.

It was just young SGA and Dort. Imagine if it was year 6 SGA, year 5 JWill, and year 4 Chet coming off a horrible season filled with trades and injuries, and you were trying to convince those guys to embrace a tank. No way they'd sign up for that.

SGA was 23 in their last tanking season and Dort 22.

The reason why they have such highly talented players in JWill and Chet is because they TANKED.

What you should be considering is trading year 7, 8, and 9 Scottie, IQ, and RJ because the Raps are capped out without enough high end talent. Those guys aren’t stupid. They know the best way to get high end talent…2 of the 3 were top 4 picks themselves.

[VanWest82]

Call me crazy, but I was always under the impression that a basketball players prime is around 27/28. The 3 of them are going to be 23/24/25 at the start of next season, they are plenty of years outside their primes. We have time.

Ultimately you do what is best for the team, if tanking results in another high end/talented prospect which will build on that team and put them in a much better place a few years from now, you do it. Personally I think that core is destined to be the Hawks of the 2000's seeing the second round and not much else, unless somehow Scottie turns into an MVP calibre player that is.

This team is devoid of talent, and we aren't getting that talent from the 18th pick in the draft.

RJ is going into year 6. Quickley is going into year 5. Scottie is going into year 4. These are young veterans who are ready to win.

How is it best for the team to lose buy-in from your best players?

If Raps think like you do that the ceiling for these guys is 2nd round tops, then they're better off trading them now and tanking. Personally, I think they have better potential than that and that Raps should slow build with smart drafts/trades/signings. BY FAR the worst option is to try and lose on purpose right from the outset with the best players still on the roster. It sends the message that you don't believe in them but are also holding back their careers. Other players/teams will also see this and not want to play for Raptors. Our rep as an organization will sink to the point where potential draft picks are saying don't draft me.

My friend, players already don't want to play here, the draft is our only meaningful way to get good players, and keep them for upwards of 7 years. No player is saying "don't draft me".

If you think burning 1 more year tanking is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back with this current core, then they aren't worth keeping. The team has been tanking bad for like a couple months, we are not the pistons.

Yes, I think doing a one year intention tank right from the start where you don't trade your core players is all by itself going to break the camel's back. It's the kind of thing you can get away with when guys are young and obviously aren't ready to win yet, but otherwise No. It's just such a devastating vote of no confidence combined with not doing right by the player.

Again, I could maybe get on board with an intentional tank if the idea was to trade Scottie, RJ, and IQ. At least then we're doing right by our players and the tank has a reasonable probability of success.

Edit: I think our guys are totally fine playing in Toronto as long as we're a well run organization that makes good moves, tries to win, and develops and improves its players / standing. Plus, RJ is a home town boy. But I will bet you that if we start holding guys hostage while trying to lose on purpose, truly no one will want to play here.

[ArthurVandelay]

RJ is going into year 6. Quickley is going into year 5. Scottie is going into year 4. These are young veterans who are ready to win.

How is it best for the team to lose buy-in from your best players?

If Raps think like you do that the ceiling for these guys is 2nd round tops, then they're better off trading them now and tanking. Personally, I think they have better potential than that and that Raps should slow build with smart drafts/trades/signings. BY FAR the worst option is to try and lose on purpose right from the outset with the best players still on the roster. It sends the message that you don't believe in them but are also holding back their careers. Other players/teams will also see this and not want to play for Raptors. Our rep as an organization will sink to the point where potential draft picks are saying don't draft me.

They’ll be 23/24/25 next season.

For perspective when the Raptors finally turned it around in 2013-2014, DD was 25 and Lowry was 28. Neither had been an all-star yet. There is time. Plus they will all be locked into contracts.

Fwiw, my tank window would only be open for 1 season.

Yeah, I just think it's super dangerous. Experience/talent is more important than age. If anything, age hurts your argument here because these guys are less mature and more likely to take even a one year intentional tank as a shot across the bow.

Also, we tried to win in 13/14. When it didn't work, we tried to trade Lowry. When that didn't work, we re-tooled with the Sac package and kept trying to slow build even though our top end talent was similar to this group. That led to a title.

Talent is what matters. After that, it is depth. The raptors have neither. My argument is rock solid. If these young guys, who are going to be locked into big to max long term contracts, can’t see the big picture and understand the process it takes to get to put yourself in position to compete for championships, then I’d be extremely shocked.

They should spend one more season tanking and use any financial flexibility to get future draft capital while trading anyone who can return prospects and picks not named IQ/RJ/Scottie/Dick.

There is a foundation already in place. The OG trade alone shaved 2 years of tanking off the rebuild.

[ArthurVandelay]

RJ is going into year 6. Quickley is going into year 5. Scottie is going into year 4. These are young veterans who are ready to win.

How is it best for the team to lose buy-in from your best players?

If Raps think like you do that the ceiling for these guys is 2nd round tops, then they're better off trading them now and tanking. Personally, I think they have better potential than that and that Raps should slow build with smart drafts/trades/signings. BY FAR the worst option is to try and lose on purpose right from the outset with the best players still on the roster. It sends the message that you don't believe in them but are also holding back their careers. Other players/teams will also see this and not want to play for Raptors. Our rep as an organization will sink to the point where potential draft picks are saying don't draft me.

My friend, players already don't want to play here, the draft is our only meaningful way to get good players, and keep them for upwards of 7 years. No player is saying "don't draft me".

If you think burning 1 more year tanking is going to be the straw that breaks the camels back with this current core, then they aren't worth keeping. The team has been tanking bad for like a couple months, we are not the pistons.

Yes, I think doing a one year intention tank right from the start where you don't trade your core players is all by itself going to break the camel's back. It's the kind of thing you can get away with when guys are young and obviously aren't ready to win yet, but otherwise No. It's just such a devastating vote of no confidence combined with not doing right by the player.

Again, I could maybe get on board with an intentional tank if the idea was to trade Scottie, RJ, and IQ. At least then we're doing right by our players and the tank has a reasonable probability of success.

Edit: I think our guys are totally fine playing in Toronto as long as we're a well run organization that makes good moves, tries to win, and develops and improves its players / standing. Plus, RJ is a home town boy. But I will bet you that if we start holding guys hostage while trying to lose on purpose, truly no one will want to play here.

The bold is how you become Detroit.

One huge reason OKC tank was so successful is because they started with an all-star talent already on the roster who blossomed into an MVP candidate.

[VanWest82]

How did what I describe workout for SGA and OKC? That is exactly what they did.

It was just young SGA and Dort. Imagine if it was year 6 SGA, year 5 JWill, and year 4 Chet coming off a horrible season filled with trades and injuries, and you were trying to convince those guys to embrace a tank. No way they'd sign up for that.

SGA was 23 in their last tanking season and Dort 22.

The reason why they have such highly talented players in JWill and Chet is because they TANKED.

What you should be considering is trading year 7, 8, and 9 Scottie, IQ, and RJ because the Raps are capped out without enough high end talent. Those guys aren’t stupid. They know the best way to get high end talent…2 of the 3 were top 4 picks themselves.

We just disagree. It seems like you're doing this analysis without factoring in RJ. He was the #3 overall pick and is entering year 6. He's blossomed in Darko's offense in a way that feels permanent as long as we don't go back to iso-ball.

Quickley is also just entering his prime. OKC didn't have anyone near as talented as RJ or IQ next to year 4 Shai. Like I said, imagine OKC deciding to tank with young vets Chet and JWIll already on the roster along with Shai. No way that happens.

OKC started the rebuild when Shai was going into year 3. Scottie will be going into year 4. He already has a good vet big in Poeltl, and two high talent guys around his age. It's not the same situation.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Dennis and McDaniels were supposed to be the saviours that made Fred bolting for nothing okay. Hope they learned their lesson. Looks like they did moving OG and Siakam before even the trade deadline

Absolutely no one believed Dennis and McDaniels were the saviors. The Rockets were our saviors for giving out that ridiculous contract and taking FVV off our hands. Masai would've paid FVV 35M+ and we would've had a repeat of last season. At least this season it forced Masai's hand to choose a direction.

We need to trade Siakam for AJ Griffen before it's too late! - PhilBlackson

I don’t know bro. There was a lot of hype for Dennis coming off team Germany and a many believed McD was a solid signing. I basically said Dennis should be okay but McD was likely a journeyman we had no idea if he could even play.

The Dennis stuff was also based on the naive belief that FVV was a vastly overvalued starting player and was a cancer or whatever, instead of a clear and obvious winning player, so even if Dennis wasn't that great he was still an upgrade, and then he played well for Dutchessland or whatever. I didn't really prescribe to this, but I can imagine the tWo members who were onboard with this logic.

[VanWest82]

I could maybe get on board with an intentional tank if the idea was to trade Scottie, RJ, and IQ.

The bold is how you become Detroit.

One huge reason OKC tank was so successful is because they started with an all-star talent already on the roster who blossomed into an MVP candidate.

No. Detroit became detroit by doing exactly what you're proposing we do: tank, not surround your blue chip prospects with talent, keep tanking, and watch as your blue chip prospects don't develop because your organizational philosphy is tanking and not winning.

[ArthurVandelay]

It was just young SGA and Dort. Imagine if it was year 6 SGA, year 5 JWill, and year 4 Chet coming off a horrible season filled with trades and injuries, and you were trying to convince those guys to embrace a tank. No way they'd sign up for that.

SGA was 23 in their last tanking season and Dort 22.

The reason why they have such highly talented players in JWill and Chet is because they TANKED.

What you should be considering is trading year 7, 8, and 9 Scottie, IQ, and RJ because the Raps are capped out without enough high end talent. Those guys aren’t stupid. They know the best way to get high end talent…2 of the 3 were top 4 picks themselves.

We just disagree. It seems like you're doing this analysis without factoring in RJ. He was the #3 overall pick and is entering year 6. He's blossomed in Darko's offense in a way that feels permanent as long as we don't go back to iso-ball.

Quickley is also just entering his prime. OKC didn't have anyone near as talented as RJ or IQ next to year 4 Shai. Like I said, imagine OKC deciding to tank with young vets Chet and JWIll already on the roster along with Shai. No way that happens.

OKC started the rebuild when Shai was going into year 3. Scottie will be going into year 4. He already has a good vet big in Poeltl, and two high talent guys around his age. It's not the same situation.

You’re right, it’s not the same situation. It’s a better situation for Toronto, especially if they keep their pick.

The Raptors already started their rebuild during Scottie’s 3rd season. Next season would be year 2.

They aren’t good enough to make the play offs and even the play in is debatable (will have to see what they do this summer).

[ArthurVandelay]

I could maybe get on board with an intentional tank if the idea was to trade Scottie, RJ, and IQ.

The bold is how you become Detroit.

One huge reason OKC tank was so successful is because they started with an all-star talent already on the roster who blossomed into an MVP candidate.

No. Detroit became detroit by doing exactly what you're proposing we do: tank, not surround your blue chip prospects with talent, keep tanking, and watch as your blue chip prospects don't develop because your organizational philosphy is tanking and not winning.

Wait a second…now IQ and RJ are blue chip prospects? Or are they vets going into their 5th and 6th season? Pick a lane.

The Raptors have a foundation. They only need one season to tank.