Re: Team Canada Basketball Thread V4.0
Posted: Wed Mar 20, 2024 4:11 pm
If Jamal plays, don't worry about the draw. The top teams we need to beat aren't in our group.
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Mattd97 wrote:Start winning they said. It will improve your ranking they said. That will avoid all these groups of death they said.
mojo13 wrote:Mattd97 wrote:Start winning they said. It will improve your ranking they said. That will avoid all these groups of death they said.
I don't know man...
Would you rather be with France, Germany or Serbia, USA? I'd argue these 4 plus Canada re the top 5 in the world right now.
Right now we have Australia (Top 6-10) and a possiblity of Spain (Top 6-10) AND Slovenia/Greece (Top 6-10). But perhaps neither.
frumble wrote:mojo13 wrote:frumble wrote:Ugh. It's been a few months since we discussed this in detail, but my recollection was that there was an excellent chance we would have Japan or South Sudan in our group.
I don;t think any of us really understood the draw principles and probabilites.
I was shocked to see both Japan and South Sudan drawn ahead of OQT PUR only to pass over our Group A and forced into Group B and C.
It took me some time to figure out why. they treated all OQTs as Euro teams and had to have max. 3 (ok) and min. 2 (weird) Euro teams in each pool. Essentially once we got drawn with Australia we automatically were NOT getting Japan or South Sudan. Not sure anyone realized that before hand.
Thanks for the explanation - I did not realize that.
Anyone read the Cathal Kelly column in today's Globe and care to give a quick summary?
I am no longer a subcriber so can't access it.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-mens-olympic-basketball-team-faces-test-of-ambition-as-murray-and/
Thanks.
Hair Canada wrote:As for the draw, when we were talking about it a few months ago, Canada was sitting at #6 in the world, which meant it would have been in the second strength bracket. But Latvie was dagerously close and has since played some EuroBasket qualifiers, beating a depleted #2 Spain and passing Canada in the rankings. Though I'm not sure that would actually matter for the draw given FIBA's convoluted principles (which somehow alwasy seem to make sure Canada gets a harder group in the first stage).
WaltFrazier wrote:Captain Kelly Olynyk says let's take the best players
https://torontosun.com/sports/basketball/nba/toronto-raptors/dont-close-any-doors-canadian-captain-olynyk-says-of-adding-reinforcements-for-olympics
Hair Canada wrote:frumble wrote:mojo13 wrote:
I don;t think any of us really understood the draw principles and probabilites.
I was shocked to see both Japan and South Sudan drawn ahead of OQT PUR only to pass over our Group A and forced into Group B and C.
It took me some time to figure out why. they treated all OQTs as Euro teams and had to have max. 3 (ok) and min. 2 (weird) Euro teams in each pool. Essentially once we got drawn with Australia we automatically were NOT getting Japan or South Sudan. Not sure anyone realized that before hand.
Thanks for the explanation - I did not realize that.
Anyone read the Cathal Kelly column in today's Globe and care to give a quick summary?
I am no longer a subcriber so can't access it.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/sports/article-mens-olympic-basketball-team-faces-test-of-ambition-as-murray-and/
Thanks.
Honestly, not really worth reading. Mostly a bunch of cheap shots at Murray. Some representative excerpts:
Denver Nugget Jamal Murray is Canada’s other game-altering star. He did not take the pledge, but is full of excuses. He’s a little banged up or he’s in a contract year or the dog ate his plane ticket. Murray’s never shut Canada down exactly, but he misses a lot of phone calls. Murray begged off the 2023 FIBA championships where Canada finished a surprise third and qualified for Paris 2024. But he made sure to be there for the first photo-op.
“I still showed up for training camp. I was still around the guys,” Murray told reporters a few months ago. “I felt the vibe there, and they did a great job. They’re on the come up, and we’ve got enough guys to go out there and compete for gold next year.” Did you catch the slippery pronoun switch in there? ‘They’ qualified, but ‘we’ will be at the Olympics.
Should someone who did more than “feel the vibe” lose their place because Murray skipped rehearsals, but is raring to go for opening night?
ItsDanger wrote:Olynyk is actually saying take the best players, if you read between the lines.
WaltFrazier wrote:ItsDanger wrote:Olynyk is actually saying take the best players, if you read between the lines.
Yes. He's not going to diss anyone, or name names. But he wants the best players, which means NBA guys.
SharoneWright wrote:WaltFrazier wrote:ItsDanger wrote:Olynyk is actually saying take the best players, if you read between the lines.
Yes. He's not going to diss anyone, or name names. But he wants the best players, which means NBA guys.
Good for Kelly.
The guiding principle is this: Imagine what Justin Trudeau would do, and do the opposite.
mojo13 wrote:Hair Canada wrote:As for the draw, when we were talking about it a few months ago, Canada was sitting at #6 in the world, which meant it would have been in the second strength bracket. But Latvie was dagerously close and has since played some EuroBasket qualifiers, beating a depleted #2 Spain and passing Canada in the rankings. Though I'm not sure that would actually matter for the draw given FIBA's convoluted principles (which somehow alwasy seem to make sure Canada gets a harder group in the first stage).
I doubt Canada will ever be in a probable position to get a "favourable" draw.
The geo balancing priciples push Canada towards European teams and Australia.
Nice that we are always forced to miss the USA, but that also pushes us away from the the rest of the America's teams. Which are mostly very favourable match-ups at this point. Australia is likely in a similar boat. Although life has been pretty easy for them as their qualfying path to majors is pretty simple - thus they tend to be overranked by FIBA and enjoy somewhat favourable draws. Of late their fan base is pretty whiny when Canada is in their draw. They are the ones crying Pool of Death for the Olympics, much more than Canadian fans.
Canada over the last 10 years has been underranked (but they earned that poor rankings) - the only reason we have had hard draws is becuase we are the strong team coming out of the lower Pots.
Hair Canada wrote:
Honestly, not really worth reading. Mostly a bunch of cheap shots at Murray. Some representative excerpts:
Denver Nugget Jamal Murray is Canada’s other game-altering star. He did not take the pledge, but is full of excuses. He’s a little banged up or he’s in a contract year or the dog ate his plane ticket. Murray’s never shut Canada down exactly, but he misses a lot of phone calls. Murray begged off the 2023 FIBA championships where Canada finished a surprise third and qualified for Paris 2024. But he made sure to be there for the first photo-op.
“I still showed up for training camp. I was still around the guys,” Murray told reporters a few months ago. “I felt the vibe there, and they did a great job. They’re on the come up, and we’ve got enough guys to go out there and compete for gold next year.” Did you catch the slippery pronoun switch in there? ‘They’ qualified, but ‘we’ will be at the Olympics.
Should someone who did more than “feel the vibe” lose their place because Murray skipped rehearsals, but is raring to go for opening night?
Is it strictly fair that he didn’t do the hard work and gets to enjoy the glory? No, it isn’t. But if you want perfect fairness in sport, stick to T-ball... Perversely, the idea that a Murray will steal the spot of someone who never quite made the big time adds more flavour to the broth. That sort of brutality makes this story real, rather than comforting. It ratchets up the stakes... That assumes Murray is healthy, which you can never assume. The man has ankles that twist in a brisk wind.
If Murray wants to go, that’s fine, but he has to suffer for it. He should need to ask. If Canada blows up in Paris, he deserves more than everyone else’s share of the blame. He was the front-runner who messed up the chemistry.
Mattd97 wrote:Hair Canada wrote:
Honestly, not really worth reading. Mostly a bunch of cheap shots at Murray. Some representative excerpts:
Denver Nugget Jamal Murray is Canada’s other game-altering star. He did not take the pledge, but is full of excuses. He’s a little banged up or he’s in a contract year or the dog ate his plane ticket. Murray’s never shut Canada down exactly, but he misses a lot of phone calls. Murray begged off the 2023 FIBA championships where Canada finished a surprise third and qualified for Paris 2024. But he made sure to be there for the first photo-op.
“I still showed up for training camp. I was still around the guys,” Murray told reporters a few months ago. “I felt the vibe there, and they did a great job. They’re on the come up, and we’ve got enough guys to go out there and compete for gold next year.” Did you catch the slippery pronoun switch in there? ‘They’ qualified, but ‘we’ will be at the Olympics.
Should someone who did more than “feel the vibe” lose their place because Murray skipped rehearsals, but is raring to go for opening night?
Is it strictly fair that he didn’t do the hard work and gets to enjoy the glory? No, it isn’t. But if you want perfect fairness in sport, stick to T-ball... Perversely, the idea that a Murray will steal the spot of someone who never quite made the big time adds more flavour to the broth. That sort of brutality makes this story real, rather than comforting. It ratchets up the stakes... That assumes Murray is healthy, which you can never assume. The man has ankles that twist in a brisk wind.
If Murray wants to go, that’s fine, but he has to suffer for it. He should need to ask. If Canada blows up in Paris, he deserves more than everyone else’s share of the blame. He was the front-runner who messed up the chemistry.
Guys can skip all they like, but with all the admonishment that Wiggins has gotten for years, its more than fair to call out Murray.
Wiggins has had his issues this year that may keep him off, but last summer he was our third best player and people were keeping him off for these same exact reasons