Vince Carter elected to Hall of Fame // New Logo ? Pg. 5

[Fairview4Life]

Vince Carter is a legend. Whoever things Amir Johnson is more deserving because he gave his all and worked hard is crazy and does not understand why player's numbers get retired. Vince put TO on the NBA map. Slam dunk champion, his annual summer charity game, his love of Toronto as a city, he is the most marketable player we have ever had. You watched to see what he was going to do next. Vince didn't quit on Toronto or the fans. He saw a stupid management team that was screwing over the future on where he played. Don't tell me that you would stay at a job that you know is a dumpster fire. Some of you talk like you are perfect, when you wouldn''t act that way if it was you. Ridiculous. He should have his jersey hung up. And the timing is a stupid argument to. Are you not going to retire Larry Bird's jersey because Bill Russell was retired first? Ugh.

Slam dunk champion is the actual basketball thing you mentioned as to why they should retire his jersey. "He didn't quit on the city or fans he quit on management"...ok. The team spent 5 years catering to him, including "screwing over the future on where he played" by making short sighted trades for guys like Charles Oakley and Antonio Davis. When the next management group **** up and the going got tough, Vince got out of dodge. Saying that we wouldn't stay at bad jobs is meaningless. We also don't expect our old employers to retire our shirts either. "You'd want to leave too" isn't a reason we should retire Vince's jersey. The team made the playoffs three times in his time here, only making the second round once. his only personal accolades were a second and third team nod and being voted into the all star game because he was a great dunker. Acting like this means he's someone who's guaranteed a jersey requirement is silly. Vince is...also not like Bill Russell.

The argument for Vince getting his jersey retired is that he was the best player the team had for ~5 years. Some people think that jersey retirements should require a little more than being the best player on mediocre teams and that some minimal level of team success might be mitigated by the **** way he left. Sustained success, deep playoff runs, longevity with a team, things like that should be a little more important than winning a dunk contest. You can set a higher bar. Personally, I don't particularly care either way. He jumped over a dude, retire his jersey. But the idea it's a no brainer and people who don't want him to be rewarded are nuts is silly.

[nestea]

This is false.

It's actually most of the people that actually watched the entirety of Vince's stint here that don't want his jersey retired.

We saw him mail it in on the defensive end at times.

We saw him refuse to be aggressive and settle for difficult inefficient jumpers time and time again.

We saw him cry and sulk like a baby every time he got knocked down.

We saw him deliberately play bad after asking for a trade averaging statistical lows in every category.

We saw him joining other teams huddles at the end of games before being traded.

We saw that he was giving play signals to the Sonics one game that season.

We saw him admit that he relied on his talent and didn't work as hard as he should've.

I mean we don't forget all that.

This dude left in one of the most unprofessional manners we've seen.

That being said, I would be okay with retiring his jersey one day, but not before Lowry and Derozan.

Lol. You wrote a novel only at the end to agree with Mr lol.

Your position was that Vince's jersey should be retired first.

My stance was not to retire his jersey, or at the very least, do it after Lowry and Derozan.

So no, I didn't agree with you whatsoever.

Lol. Backtracking. My yute keep it moving..

[TheGeneral99]

Lol. You wrote a novel only at the end to agree with Mr lol.

Your position was that Vince's jersey should be retired first.

My stance was not to retire his jersey, or at the very least, do it after Lowry and Derozan.

So no, I didn't agree with you whatsoever.

Lol. Backtracking. My yute keep it moving..

Here is what you said:

He deserves it and righty should have his number retired first amongst anyone.

I said he should not be retired or at the very least, after Lowry and Derozan.

You're wrong, just admit it and move on.

[Tacoma]

Your position was that Vince's jersey should be retired first.

My stance was not to retire his jersey, or at the very least, do it after Lowry and Derozan.

So no, I didn't agree with you whatsoever.

Lol. Backtracking. My yute keep it moving..

Here is what you said:

He deserves it and righty should have his number retired first amongst anyone.

I said he should not be retired or at the very least, after Lowry and Derozan.

Setting aside debate of whether Vince's jersey deserves to be retired, but once you accept that he's deserving, then I don't see how timing sequence matter. So for example, if Barnes leads us to another Championship, then should DeRozan's jersey retirement be delayed until Barnes' jersey is retired first?

Of course not. And neither should Vince be forced to wait if it's determined he's deserving. Once the decision is made to retire his jersey, then near the time when of HOF induction would seem be most appropriate time. Same goes for Lowry & DeRozan.

[TheGeneral99]

Lol. Backtracking. My yute keep it moving..

Here is what you said:

He deserves it and righty should have his number retired first amongst anyone.

I said he should not be retired or at the very least, after Lowry and Derozan.

Setting aside debate of whether Vince's jersey deserves to be retired, but once you accept that he's deserving, then I don't see how timing sequence matter. So for example, if Barnes leads us to another Championship, then should DeRozan's jersey retirement be delayed until Barnes' jersey is retired first?

Of course not. And neither should Vince be forced to wait if it's determined he's deserving. Once the decision is made to retire his jersey, then near the time when of HOF induction would seem be most appropriate time. Same goes for Lowry & DeRozan.

Again, my preference is not to have his jersey retired, but if it is, not before Lowry and Derozan.

And no because in my opinion Lowry and Derozan truly deserve it and VC doesn't.

[nestea]

Here is what you said:



I said he should not be retired or at the very least, after Lowry and Derozan.

Setting aside debate of whether Vince's jersey deserves to be retired, but once you accept that he's deserving, then I don't see how timing sequence matter. So for example, if Barnes leads us to another Championship, then should DeRozan's jersey retirement be delayed until Barnes' jersey is retired first?

Of course not. And neither should Vince be forced to wait if it's determined he's deserving. Once the decision is made to retire his jersey, then near the time when of HOF induction would seem be most appropriate time. Same goes for Lowry & DeRozan.

Again, my preference is not to have his jersey retired, but if it is, not before Lowry and Derozan.

And no because in my opinion Lowry and Derozan truly deserve it and VC doesn't.

Lol. Give it up. You're not making any sence at this point
Vince number will be retired before any other. Case closed

[LiSTWithLani]

In my humble opinion, Vince deserves to be in the Hall of Fame, but not to be retired as a Raptor in our rafters.

He did a lot for the sport, including the Raptors (especially), but the manner in which he went out, I don't think that he deserves the honour. For example, Lowry was heralded and cast as a hero his last year here and nobody thought that it was any fault of his own that he left. Those circumstances mean something. Vince quit on us, he faked injuries and forced his way out and put us back years. As much as he "put us on the map" (which is bull), he also cost us years and took the interest away from the team and nearly had the team fold.

[Dennis 37]

You can try to convince everyone here in this msg board that VC was not a monumental part of the franchises history (he is), but most people in the city, and media and fans outside of it dont obsess over it in such a negative light and see VC as a positive part of the NBA media today.

It would be insanely immature to hold that petty fan grudge in terms of image and perception of the raptors in the NBA.

VC gets his number retired next season. You better get used to it.

Was he part of history? Of course. Was the one playoff series win monumental?

Most people in the city weren't here when VC was a Raptor. There are 2 million more people in Greater Toronto, and I would guess most or all are immigrants from outside the country, than there were in 2002. Those 2 million people are looking at highlight reels. Most people in the city, because of immigration and people born here after he left, didn't experience all that was VC as it happened. It was pretty easy to get cheap tickets back then. The whole city wasn't paying attention. Remember this was when Sundin was at his peak and Maple Leafs were actually a pretty good team.

Sure, if all you know of VC was of highlight reels, you would think VC was the greatest player to have ever played. But, monumental means at least getting the team to the conference finals. That happened when? 2010 as a member of the Orlando Magic.

Apologize and I will stop being petty.

This is all it takes,

"Dear Raptor fans, "While there were many contributing factors to my leaving, I did tank my trade value by giving far less on the court than I was capable of. I do acknowledge that this contributed to the team's lack of ability to be as competitive as they might have been going forward. For this I am truly sorry."

If he said that, I would not feel insulted having his jersey up there.

Until that happens it is an insult to retire his jersey. It may happen. MSLE may think there is some benefit to insulting a good portion of the fanbase.


Also, I'm not here telling you how to feel. If you don't feel insulted, you do you, but you can't tell me how I should or should not feel about this.

[Dennis 37]

Setting aside debate of whether Vince's jersey deserves to be retired, but once you accept that he's deserving, then I don't see how timing sequence matter. So for example, if Barnes leads us to another Championship, then should DeRozan's jersey retirement be delayed until Barnes' jersey is retired first?

Of course not. And neither should Vince be forced to wait if it's determined he's deserving. Once the decision is made to retire his jersey, then near the time when of HOF induction would seem be most appropriate time. Same goes for Lowry & DeRozan.

Again, my preference is not to have his jersey retired, but if it is, not before Lowry and Derozan.

And no because in my opinion Lowry and Derozan truly deserve it and VC doesn't.

Lol. Give it up. You're not making any sence at this point
Vince number will be retired before any other. Case closed

Making definitive statements, when one has no control over the matter, is someone not making any sense.

People have a right to their opinions even if you disagree. Seems to me the pro-tank_my_value_but_still_get_rewarded team is not very tolerant of opposing opinion.