Ric Bucher: "Chris Bosh will be traded this summer."

[Blazer_2458]

Just a thought to TOR fans:

If a player, like Bosh for example (like Bucher or whoever came out with that report) doesn't accept a contract offer and reportedly doesn't want to go back to his current team after his contract expires, that lowers his trade value. TOR isn't in a position to demand the type of value they think they should get because if the two teams don't agree to a sign-and-trade, Bosh could easily leave and TOR receive nothing in compensation. Now I realize TOR isn't going to trade Bosh away for nothing (and Beasley certainly isn't nothing), but if you think that your team is going to recieve full value for Bosh is a little unrealistic (if the reports are true).

And 2nd, I don't know where all this Beasley hate is coming from on this board. I personally prefer to keep Beasley and try to lure Bosh or Amare to MIA in 2010 (at least in my perspective). But, he put up very similar numbers to Bosh in his rookie season.

Bosh: 11.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1 assist on 45.9% from the field in 33.5 mpg
Beasley: 13.9 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 1 assist on 47.2% from the field in 24.8 mpg

Now per 36
Bosh: 12.3 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 1.1 apg
Beasley: 20.1 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.5 apg

So this "Beasley can't reach Boshs level" is a little overblown on this board (understandingly, this is your forum). I just don't understand where all the hate is coming from.

The problem with what you suggest is that you expect Bosh to take a 30 million dollar paycut. If Bosh walks away from TOR, he LOOSES 30 mil in the larger per year raises that TOR can offer as well as the extra year; all in all 30 mil <-- he's going to need to feed his kids!

I agree that Toronto is not in the best position if Bosh does indeed choose not to sign an extension this summer. That being said, Toronto is far from the position of weakness that many think we are in. Bosh's future is linked to us in that no matter what we control his rights (thus an extra 30 mil for him) and the last thing he will do is simply walk away. And the team that trades for Bosh effectively gains that 30 million dollar leverage so no matter what, Toronto is not exactly dealing from a position of weakness.

[Tim_Hardawayy]

Yes. He said "wait 5 years to judge him, Roy will win ROY easily, but wait..." as soon as he was drafted... Bargnani is BC and Mauriziho Gheredini's homeboy and has been for a while.

But it's all irrelevant... you take the best deal available and worry about fit later. Frankly I still think Beasley can play SF beside Bargnani's PF, so it's not a big deal to me to have them both at once.

Beasley cannot play SF. Have you ever watch him play? He will get destroyed by opposing SFs... not to mention that if he could actually play SF im pretty sure he would start over Jamario freeking Moon

Once again... I wouldn't say he can or can't based on this past season, having watched him in nearly every game. The Heat just did not bother to try it out at all during the season, and only used it in the playoffs because Beasley dominated in the last 2 weeks of the regular season with Haslem injured, so the coach had to figure out a way to play Haslem and Beasley together (Haslem at center was always a disaster).

I seriously think the Heat coaching staff mismanaged Beasley this season. When he was averaging 25 and 12 in those games at the end of the year, you had some Heat fans playing the results, claiming that he's only doing that and playing defense because we benched him the whole time. But the truth is, he would never have gotten that playing time if Haslem didn't get injured.

He definitely improved from start of the season to the end, but I still think if he had gotten consistent playing time throughout, he probably puts up what his per36 numbers are, 20 and 8.

If you want an idea of how we mismanaged Beasley, just imagine if the Bulls limited Rose to 24 minutes per game in order to play Kirk Hinrich. That is essentially what we did with Beasley and Haslem. And Rose was easily a worse defender than Beasley this season.

[Blazer_2458]

He played some 3 in the playoffs, albeit against Mo Evans. WAnd these things can be manageable with a flexible roster.hat I'd do is find some SF/PF bench defensive player like if we drafted Sam Young or something, then whenever we play a team with a star SF like Lebron or Pierce we guard them with him.

In any case... a lineup of Beasley/Bargnani/defensive C is a lot more reasonable defensively than a Beasley/Bargnani or Bosh/Bargnani frontcourt... I'll take a weak defensive SF, just let me have a real center.

If we trade Bosh, how about we build a proper roster. Bargs is PF and I want a straight SF who can guard SF; I dont want to hear anymore of this "well all we need to do is..". Lets gets players who can actually defend their position and stop playing players out of position (I personally support Bargs at fulltime C if we can acquire an Okafor/Horford type PF).

[hsb]

So this "Beasley can't reach Boshs level" is a little overblown on this board (understandingly, this is your forum). I just don't understand where all the hate is coming from.

It doesn't matter if you don't understand where all the hate is coming from, it doesn't make a difference. Every 3 pages on a Chris Bosh thread a Heat fan comes in and tells everyone how good Beasley is and will be, and we are all crazy for undervaluing him. Very irrelevant.

Just with the general style of his game, potential and physical attributes (what position can he really excel at?), I find it hard to believe he will reach the potential certain Heat fans think he will. Please, lets just wait and see before you bring some more stats to predict the future with. It is also pretty hard for me to like the guy when he is literally Bargnani's first bitch in the NBA.

As for Bargnani, I still don't understand. Why is BC so set on building around him? Does he see him developing into a Dirk like they originally had hoped?

There is not much to understand, Bargnani was a number one pick by BC and is slowly showing promise and productivity. 'Building around him' is a terrible term and perspective to have.

He is not Lebron James, he is just part of the system and for the Raptors to excel they need to take advantage of his skill set. Just like Calderon and Bosh. This is a team game and the Raptors still need to make moves to get the right pieces together, just like Miami with Wade and Beasley. I don't know why your putting so much emphasis on one player. He is not a superstar yet which everyone knows, but that doesn't mean you don't find players to fit in with how he plays ball. Like someone said on this board, it is not about building around but being apart of the team.

[diggity_88]

I completely agree, alot of people say "why would you trade for the main peices of randolph and beans". Well, because they're young as hell, they work great to give bargs the reigns (even though hes far away from being that player). We get two high draft picks, out of a very good role player draft. It makes us a much more balanced/deeper/younger team. Putting us back in rebuild mode, and another trading peice in Jose. Where as the Miami deal just gives us Beasly, who looks liek an undersize 4, plays like one too(flame me for all of those who are fans of his, but personally, im pretty confident who wont be on the same level that Bosh is at now at any part of his career), some expirings....and thats it. To me the future looks 100x's brighter with the GSW deal. Gives us a chance to start fresh with a much better core. I mean worst case scenario, we could have a lineup of

Jennings
Derozan
Randolph (i think if he can make his game more so based around the 3, he'll be a mismatch nightmare)
Bargs
Beans

that seems pretty legit to me, also not to mention an exciting team.

First off, why would GS deal both Randolph and Beans for Bosh?

Second, that lineup would be incredibly too young to even sniff the playoffs. They would be one of the worst teams in the league for the next 2-3 years until they start to really develop. That lineup looks like a clone of the current GS team, which is 25-30 games under .500 and fighting for a top lottery pick in the draft.

im pretty sure i said "and we be in rebuild mode" within that paragraph.

[timdunkit]

Just a thought to TOR fans:

If a player, like Bosh for example (like Bucher or whoever came out with that report) doesn't accept a contract offer and reportedly doesn't want to go back to his current team after his contract expires, that lowers his trade value. TOR isn't in a position to demand the type of value they think they should get because if the two teams don't agree to a sign-and-trade, Bosh could easily leave and TOR receive nothing in compensation. Now I realize TOR isn't going to trade Bosh away for nothing (and Beasley certainly isn't nothing), but if you think that your team is going to recieve full value for Bosh is a little unrealistic (if the reports are true).

And 2nd, I don't know where all this Beasley hate is coming from on this board. I personally prefer to keep Beasley and try to lure Bosh or Amare to MIA in 2010 (at least in my perspective). But, he put up very similar numbers to Bosh in his rookie season.

Bosh: 11.5 ppg, 7.4 rpg, 1 assist on 45.9% from the field in 33.5 mpg
Beasley: 13.9 ppg, 5.4 rpg, 1 assist on 47.2% from the field in 24.8 mpg

Now per 36
Bosh: 12.3 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 1.1 apg
Beasley: 20.1 ppg, 7.9 rpg, 1.5 apg

So this "Beasley can't reach Boshs level" is a little overblown on this board (understandingly, this is your forum). I just don't understand where all the hate is coming from.

Per 36 in many ways is a flawed stat ... For example, comparing anyone to Bosh's rookie year wouldn't account for the fact that Bosh played a lot of C. It wouldn't account for having both Vince Carter and Jalen Rose ball dominting on our team (though Wade does the same, Mia has no 2nd go to guy, which was suppose to be Beasley eventually). Then it wouldn't account for the fact that later on Bosh becomes the franchise player (which truthfully help his development a lot) ... Of course you can turn around and say the same things for Beasley but Per36 should never be used to measure potential and how far a rookie will go.

I agree that many people here do undervalue Beasley but you have to realize that we have Bargnani. We need guys that also fit and make sense in the long term plan as well ...Beasley/Bargnani would likely be worser then Bosh/Bargnani and again would produce the same weaknesses for us. Bargnani has showed a lot of promise the 2nd half of the season and if we do trade Bosh it won't be to rebuild around a superstar, rather rebuild a team that just fits together where everyone feeds of each other ...

[St.Nick]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

I realize its not the most breathtaking offer, but its more realistic than most you'll get. The W's aren't going to sell the farm to get Bosh, although they'd give up some nice pieces if he was available. I think this deal qualifies.

Your new Lineup:

Calderon/Ukic
DeRozan (#7 pick)/Parker
Maggette/Kapono
Bargnani/Earl Clark (#9 pick)
Biedrins/POB/Jawai

[Fairview4Life]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

Or no one here really has any idea what the Warriors will offer, or what the Raps would accept.

[St.Nick]

Not in fact, but in logic, I think this is the most realistic option.

The W's are already building a promotional campaign around Randolph on their website, so I don't think they are looking to deal him.

Randolph is versatile enough to play SF, but he might not be ready. And if he is ready, then it creates a problem for minutes between S-Jax, Azubuike, and Maggette.

So if another deal isn't in place to clear up the SF position...or if Randolph isn't ready to play SF at a high level...then GS likely won't be jumping to make a deal with the Raptors for Bosh.

[TiKusDom]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

I realize its not the most breathtaking offer, but its more realistic than most you'll get. The W's aren't going to sell the farm to get Bosh, although they'd give up some nice pieces if he was available. I think this deal qualifies.

Your new Lineup:

Calderon/Ukic
DeRozan (#7 pick)/Parker
Maggette/Kapono
Bargnani/Earl Clark (#9 pick)
Biedrins/POB/Jawai

You will never get Bosh in any package involving Magette. EVER. The bare minimum is Andris + Marco+ 07 pick + Turiaf, ill leave it to the rest to debate AR.

[timdunkit]

Not in fact, but in logic, I think this is the most realistic option.

The W's are already building a promotional campaign around Randolph on their website, so I don't think they are looking to deal him.

Randolph is versatile enough to play SF, but he might not be ready. And if he is ready, then it creates a problem for minutes between S-Jax, Azubuike, and Maggette.

So if another deal isn't in place to clear up the SF position...or if Randolph isn't ready to play SF at a high level...then GS likely won't be jumping to make a deal with the Raptors for Bosh.

Isn't Don Nelson the last person in the NBA to follow logic? ... this is a man who ran a line up starting 4 SG's .... Its one thing to promote and unproven sophmore (yes AR hasn't proved anything yet ) Its anotehr when you can promote Chris Bosh ...

[St.Nick]

Not in fact, but in logic, I think this is the most realistic option.

The W's are already building a promotional campaign around Randolph on their website, so I don't think they are looking to deal him.

Randolph is versatile enough to play SF, but he might not be ready. And if he is ready, then it creates a problem for minutes between S-Jax, Azubuike, and Maggette.

So if another deal isn't in place to clear up the SF position...or if Randolph isn't ready to play SF at a high level...then GS likely won't be jumping to make a deal with the Raptors for Bosh.

Isn't Don Nelson the last person in the NBA to follow logic? ... this is a man who ran a line up starting 4 SG's .... Its one thing to promote and unproven sophmore (yes AR hasn't proved anything yet ) Its anotehr when you can promote Chris Bosh ...

You don't win over 1300 games as a coach if you aren't logical.

Try again.

[timdunkit]

Not in fact, but in logic, I think this is the most realistic option.

The W's are already building a promotional campaign around Randolph on their website, so I don't think they are looking to deal him.

Randolph is versatile enough to play SF, but he might not be ready. And if he is ready, then it creates a problem for minutes between S-Jax, Azubuike, and Maggette.

So if another deal isn't in place to clear up the SF position...or if Randolph isn't ready to play SF at a high level...then GS likely won't be jumping to make a deal with the Raptors for Bosh.

Isn't Don Nelson the last person in the NBA to follow logic? ... this is a man who ran a line up starting 4 SG's .... Its one thing to promote and unproven sophmore (yes AR hasn't proved anything yet ) Its anotehr when you can promote Chris Bosh ...

You don't win over 1300 games as a coach if you aren't logical.

Try again.

Again, i didnt mean insult Don Nelson, rather he is not someone who thinks logically, isn't that his calling card? thinking outside the box, the king of mismatches? .... The Raptors turned down a deal of AR/Biedrens ... whether its true or not, no one knows ... but if it is true then it would mean that if GSW wants Bosh, there package has to beat that one ....

[Fairview4Life]

You don't win over 1300 games as a coach if you aren't logical.

Try again.

I think he meant "follow your logic". As in, Don Nelson probably doesn't think something is logical just because you personally do. Maybe that's why the rumours around the deadline was that the offer for Bosh was better than what you proposed.

[TiKusDom]

You don't win over 1300 games as a coach if you aren't logical.

Try again.

your logic is poo, everyone knows Crazy Don and his erratic player substitutions, player jerking around, and wacko comments to the media. We're not even GSW fans and know about his craziness.

[Crazy-Canuck]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

I realize its not the most breathtaking offer, but its more realistic than most you'll get. The W's aren't going to sell the farm to get Bosh, although they'd give up some nice pieces if he was available. I think this deal qualifies.

GSW dumping two players that they've publicly stated that they DONT WANT and a draft pick in a weak year in return for Bosh seems realistic and logical?

Maybe a team will give the Raps a 24 year old all star for banks and Kapono. and no.9.

[St.Nick]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

I realize its not the most breathtaking offer, but its more realistic than most you'll get. The W's aren't going to sell the farm to get Bosh, although they'd give up some nice pieces if he was available. I think this deal qualifies.

Your new Lineup:

Calderon/Ukic
DeRozan (#7 pick)/Parker
Maggette/Kapono
Bargnani/Earl Clark (#9 pick)
Biedrins/POB/Jawai

You will never get Bosh in any package involving Magette. EVER. The bare minimum is Andris + Marco+ 07 pick + Turiaf, ill leave it to the rest to debate AR.

The Maggette discussion is at a standstill. I think in real basketball terms (and not in over the top Real GM terms) that Toronto would love to have Maggette when considering their SF/scoring situation. But I won't get into all that.

In any case, it makes no sense for us to give up both of our centers and take back Bosh. Won't happen. No teams trade their entire depth chart at one position and fail to bring back any quality player at the same position in return.

[St.Nick]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

I realize its not the most breathtaking offer, but its more realistic than most you'll get. The W's aren't going to sell the farm to get Bosh, although they'd give up some nice pieces if he was available. I think this deal qualifies.

GSW dumping two players that they've publicly stated that they DONT WANT and a draft pick in a weak year in return for Bosh seems realistic and logical?

Maybe a team will give the Raps a 24 year old all star for banks and Kapono. and no.9.

I'm saying that when you look at our roster and our situation, thats all we'd offer.

And btw, the trade only has one guy that they've publicly stated they don't want getting traded (if you take the Crawford version of the trade).

Sorry that you guys don't like the offers you are getting, but thats what happens when you have a guy that doesn't want to stick around after next season. Its a crappy situation, I can imagine, but thats just how it goes.

[TiKusDom]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

I realize its not the most breathtaking offer, but its more realistic than most you'll get. The W's aren't going to sell the farm to get Bosh, although they'd give up some nice pieces if he was available. I think this deal qualifies.

Your new Lineup:

Calderon/Ukic
DeRozan (#7 pick)/Parker
Maggette/Kapono
Bargnani/Earl Clark (#9 pick)
Biedrins/POB/Jawai

You will never get Bosh in any package involving Magette. EVER. The bare minimum is Andris + Marco+ 07 pick + Turiaf, ill leave it to the rest to debate AR.

The Maggette discussion is at a standstill. I think in real basketball terms (and not in over the top Real GM terms) that Toronto would love to have Maggette when considering their SF/scoring situation. But I won't get into all that.

In any case, it makes no sense for us to give up both of our centers and take back Bosh. Won't happen. No teams trade their entire depth chart at one position and fail to bring back any quality player at the same position in return.

No one in Toronto would "love" to have Magette.

[timdunkit]

GS will offer Biedrins, Maggette (or Crawford), and the #7 for Bosh and Banks. No pre-signed extension necessary.

I'm not interested in throwing in Belinelli, Azu, or Wright. Although I'd consider one of them in place of the pick if you prefer.

I realize its not the most breathtaking offer, but its more realistic than most you'll get. The W's aren't going to sell the farm to get Bosh, although they'd give up some nice pieces if he was available. I think this deal qualifies.

GSW dumping two players that they've publicly stated that they DONT WANT and a draft pick in a weak year in return for Bosh seems realistic and logical?

Maybe a team will give the Raps a 24 year old all star for banks and Kapono. and no.9.

I'm saying that when you look at our roster and our situation, thats all we'd offer.

And btw, the trade only has one guy that they've publicly stated they don't want getting traded (if you take the Crawford version of the trade).

Sorry that you guys don't like the offers you are getting, but thats what happens when you have a guy that doesn't want to stick around after next season. Its a crappy situation, I can imagine, but thats just how it goes.

Bosh has never send he didn't want to be here and during the end of the year seemed more inclined to stay here in Toronto ... all these Bosh trades are hypothetical situations from most fan bases who think Bosh has already said he is gone ... the NBA world wnats Bosh to leave Toronto it seems but nothing has come out of BOsh's mouth to say so and our GM has constantly said he is building this team around Bosh ... extensions talks haven't even begun ... so till then, don't assume Bosh is gone or what our position is ...