Aaron Gordon says Scottie Barnes when asked about "guy miscast in role as star who might excel as the ultimate glue guy"

[alpngso]

Is this a diss? I wouldn’t think so based on the article. Scottie is more skilled than AG but less athletic.

We’ll see

[DelAbbot]

This is basically the only important question about the roster as is, imo. (Everyone else is role player to average starter at best imo) And while I’m not anything like certain, if forced to bet right now I’d probably have to bet high level Robin over Batman.

You don’t necessarily have to be a 27+ ppg scorer to be a franchise player, but you do need to have some go-to move(s) to just get a bucket when the team needs it and I haven’t seen anything like that from Scottie. He’s a good (but kinda weird) athlete, but one thing he lacks is suddenness and imo that’s probably what hinders him with his offensive arsenal. If you need someone else to create big buckets (and you’re not an otherworldly defensive 5) you can’t really be The Man.

The topic of Scottie's lack of quickness / first step / shiftiness on offense has been mentioned a lot as the limiter of his offensive ceiling. He seems to lack it due to his high hips / physical limitation (similar to OG even). It's obvious when you compare Scottie and Paolo Banchero on offense.

Scottie right now gets his buckets by length and strength (bully ball) with a budding 3pt shot. But to be that #1 option, he needs to have that quickness / first step / shiftiness (unless he grows into Jokic). Has there been any previous example of a player developing that quickness / first step / shiftiness on offense after entering the league, propelling them into a #1/#2 offensive option?

[mtcan]

It's definitely a skill issue as well. His perimeter shot/ball handling/first step/post moves are severely lacking.

He won't need to be great at all those things but he will definitely need to become great at a few of those areas.

The case study here is Minnesota.

For years they thought Wiggins and KAT were the guys who would take the step to superstardom...and neither of them ultimately were despite their natural skills and physical gifts. What makes Ant "the guy" in Minnesota?

His attitude.

You can argue that Wiggins is as talented as Ant or that KAT is more skilled being a versatile 7 footer who can play inside and shoot as well as he can. It's mental. Ant has the belief and desire to kill other teams.

Let's not turn this into an Aaron Gordon bashing thread.

Definitely but you also need the skill to back that up because you can also become a Draymond Green too lol. The only part of Barnes game that I feel he can be dominant with but he doesn't seem to have the correct attitude on is his ability to bully players around the rim.

If he had the Giannis mentality like you said, I do believe he can show signs of being unstoppable. I still remember that dunk he had against the Spurs/Sochan where he put him in the rim... he had the ability to do that more but is too damn passive.

No argument there...being skilled is table stakes to get you in the conversation and at that point you are good for sure but you also need that competitive edge that pushes you want to be the guy who takes the big shots and wills your team to win.

And while we do see this in spurts...I need him to always be like that from start to finish.

Is it something you have innately or something you develop? No one has to tell Luka or Lebron or Wemby even who is going to take the big shots. I've seen Scottie pass on those opportunities too often in his first 3 seasons.

Prove me wrong in season 4...

[mademan]

AG right now is playing like the 2nd best player on a title team. A lot of really good and great players arent cut out to be 1st options. I dont think thats Scottie either but he's still the prototype of a guy that can be a top tier contributor to a championship

[JB7]

This is basically the only important question about the roster as is, imo. (Everyone else is role player to average starter at best imo) And while I’m not anything like certain, if forced to bet right now I’d probably have to bet high level Robin over Batman.

You don’t necessarily have to be a 27+ ppg scorer to be a franchise player, but you do need to have some go-to move(s) to just get a bucket when the team needs it and I haven’t seen anything like that from Scottie. He’s a good (but kinda weird) athlete, but one thing he lacks is suddenness and imo that’s probably what hinders him with his offensive arsenal. If you need someone else to create big buckets (and you’re not an otherworldly defensive 5) you can’t really be The Man.

Generally, being the #1 option/The Man has operated this way (being the guy that can get the bucket at the end of a game).

But where would you think of Magic in this context? I don't think he was that type of player, but clearly always thought of as being the guy.

When I think of Scottie, I think his best case scenario is probably that type of player.

[will]

i see RJ more of our number 1 bucket getting than i do with scottie

He's not a sugar cookie getter like Dylan/Chappelle on Making Da Band.

[JB7]

Bosh, DeMar and Lowry were never good enough to be the best player on a championship team. Imo Scottie is in that bracket.

We need someone better than him and we need them through the draft. A tank next season is CRITICAL or this team is going nowhere.

In general, a star is often define being an all-star or being paid max or top 25 players. I never said they were superstars(top 10), which can carry a team to a championship. Masai realized Demar wasnt that and trade for Kawhi. Nobody thought Kawhi/Jokic/Giannis were going to become a superstar, hence they were picked late in the draft and took many years to get there. I am not saying Barnes is goiing to be a superstar, but he has the passion and work ethic to get there. He actually plays a lot of basketball in the off-season.

So people wont get the wrong idea, I was on tank for Wemby and tank 2025 bandwagon for a star/superstar.

God forbid the Raptors tank

I don't want to get started.

Will, I almost feel like you would be so much more happy as a Wiz or Pistons fan

[brownbobcat]

This is basically the only important question about the roster as is, imo. (Everyone else is role player to average starter at best imo) And while I’m not anything like certain, if forced to bet right now I’d probably have to bet high level Robin over Batman.

You don’t necessarily have to be a 27+ ppg scorer to be a franchise player, but you do need to have some go-to move(s) to just get a bucket when the team needs it and I haven’t seen anything like that from Scottie. He’s a good (but kinda weird) athlete, but one thing he lacks is suddenness and imo that’s probably what hinders him with his offensive arsenal. If you need someone else to create big buckets (and you’re not an otherworldly defensive 5) you can’t really be The Man.

The topic of Scottie's lack of quickness / first step / shiftiness on offense has been mentioned a lot as the limiter of his offensive ceiling. He seems to lack it due to his high hips / physical limitation (similar to OG even). It's obvious when you compare Scottie and Paolo Banchero on offense.

Scottie right now gets his buckets by length and strength (bully ball) with a budding 3pt shot. But to be that #1 option, he needs to have that quickness / first step / shiftiness (unless he grows into Jokic). Has there been any previous example of a player developing that quickness / first step / shiftiness on offense after entering the league, propelling them into a #1/#2 offensive option?

All of the great scorers in history have eventually lost their first step/quickness. The key for Scottie to level up his scoring has to be footwork and the jumper (especially midrange). I don't think he'll ever be able to smoothly pivot like Kobe or Jokic with his back to the basket, improvement will have to come on the face up moves.

When he turns his back right now, it's mostly to protect the ball as opposed to creating an advantage. It's never going to be easy for Barnes to back down defenders with a lower center of gravity. But on the face-up, they have to posture a little higher to contest the shot/pass and that's where Barnes has to hurt them.

[will]

In general, a star is often define being an all-star or being paid max or top 25 players. I never said they were superstars(top 10), which can carry a team to a championship. Masai realized Demar wasnt that and trade for Kawhi. Nobody thought Kawhi/Jokic/Giannis were going to become a superstar, hence they were picked late in the draft and took many years to get there. I am not saying Barnes is goiing to be a superstar, but he has the passion and work ethic to get there. He actually plays a lot of basketball in the off-season.

So people wont get the wrong idea, I was on tank for Wemby and tank 2025 bandwagon for a star/superstar.

God forbid the Raptors tank

I don't want to get started.

Will, I almost feel like you would be so much more happy as a Wiz or Pistons fan

My ass is so chapped that we didn't tank for Victor. And that trade for Yakub on top was the icing on the feces cake.

I have to let this go, before I create a thread opposite of what mdenny posted yesterday.

Really, I have to let this go before getting a permanent ban. Can't afford that.

[will]

Hey, glue is integral to woodworking.

[DelAbbot]

Hey, glue is integral to woodworking.

finally no more deadwood

[will]

Hey, glue is integral to woodworking.

finally no more deadwood

The online message board chemistry we have is on par with Jokic and Aaron.


Edit: Pause. Just in case.

[kanahda ballz]

Scottie averaged 20 pts, 8 rebs and 6 asts this season (his 3rd season). The only other players who at least matched those averages this season were Joker, Luka and Giannis.

When you add the 1.5 blks and 1.3 stls Scottie averaged this season there are no other players that matched all those averages across the board.

I would like to see where Scottie is developed at in year 6.

While I don't think he will ever be a 25 ppg scorer, I can see Scottie topping out at 23 ppg, 9 rpg, and 7 apg. A triple double machine. Combine that with very good defense and defense playmaking (stocks) and that is a top 10-15 NBA player. A multiple all-NBA player.

Analytically speaking, I remember in BBall reference VORP (value over replacement player) Scottie was like tied for 19th overall in the NBA at the time his season ended (at seasons end he fell to 32nd due to missing his last 22 games).

I am excited for Scottie's and the Raptors future. If the Raptors can obtain a 25 ppg scorer to be 1A to Scottie's 1, and combine that with a high 3 point shooting and high playmaking point guard (which I think they have in Quickley), then I believe they have the beginnings of the foundational pieces to build a contender.


P.S.

Not even going to address the AG comparisons.

[WetLikeWater]

i see RJ more of our number 1 bucket getting than i do with scottie

He's not a sugar cookie getter like Dylan/Chappelle on Making Da Band.

LOL i didn't expect this comment

[will]

i see RJ more of our number 1 bucket getting than i do with scottie

He's not a sugar cookie getter like Dylan/Chappelle on Making Da Band.

LOL i didn't expect this comment

[youtube]https://youtu.be/Dk8v4Asj26A?si=U4TetgqV0typDowg[/youtube]

Just search Dylan sugar cookie on youtube.

[will]

If anything, Aaron Gordon has extended his career by accepting and embracing his role with Denver. It's actually beautiful how he has evolved as a player.

[Merit]

Scottie is already better than Gordon ever was.

You could make the case that he’s a better Draymond Green, which is an “All star level connector player”


To win around Scottie, you need a Jamal Murray like scoring guard, a 3&D wing defender, and a stretch C.
Maybe IQ is the scoring guard. We’re missing the other 2 main ingredients.

Derrick Jones Jr. is a UFA this year iirc. Jalen Smith is as well.

Then there are lesser possibilities eg. Goga Bitadze, Kelly Oubre, possibly Josh Okogie, then older guys like Taurean Prince, Delon Wright.

In theory, we have options. Derrick Jones Jr. is my top target though. Then again, I’d rather just get wiggins.

[Red_Claw]

Keep feeding our Scottie. Love it.

[720]

Clown takes by a lot of the usual Scottie haters. He’s way better than Gordon ever was.

[Johnston]

It's a bit early, but this is likely Barnes career. Not because he doesn't have the skills, but he doesn't have the killer mindset. He's consistently making extra passes, came of the bench by choice in college etc.