Nowitzki: Bargs is way more athletic than I ever was

[FluLikeSymptoms]

Nowitzki is a German Bill Russell/Latter Day Chamberlain hybrid if we're not being ignorant.

[gamer4Life]

Saying Yi is the same height as Bargs is like saying Steve Nash is the same height as... I dunno, Kidd or Wade.

You did look at the rest of the stats did you, or did you just stop at the first line?

[hyper316]

joey graham is more athletic than most nba players, doesn't mean much here

[J-Roc]

I love these silly quotes from opposing players. Home media will ask leading questions, so you have no choice but to feed them the answers they're looking for. Throw Andrea a few compliments and make everyone happy. And then Raps fans think that because Andrea is more "athletic", he'll end up better than Dirk.

[Duffman100]

Why is this even a conversation? Bargs could be better than Dirk.

If Bargs ever touches Dirk status, I'll eat my own shoe.

I love Bargs, one of his biggest defenders, but Dirk is one of the best ever.

[ff_29]

Yi sucks...he's a good shooter, decent athlete but he's the softest mofo u'll ever see.

Sounds familiar.

By the way:

Andrea Bargnani
Toronto
Position: Center
Height: 7-0 Weight: 250
From: Rome, Italy
Player file | Team stats
2009-10 Statistics
PPG 16.8
RPG 6.1
APG 1.1
SPG 0.4
BPG 1.3
FG% 0.472
FT% 0.816
3P% 0.356
MPG 34.0


Yi Jianlian
New Jersey
Position: Forward
Height: 7-0 Weight: 250
From: Shenzhen, China
Player file | Team stats
2009-10 Statistics
PPG 16.2
RPG 6.7
APG 0.3
SPG 1.0
BPG 1.2
FG% 0.466
FT% 0.810
3P% 0.385
MPG 34.1

Personally, I think Yi is about where Bargs was last year. when Jay took over.

By the way:

1. Your stats are wrong
2. Yi's played 15 games this year, compared to 40 for Bargs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nan01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lyi01.html

[gamer1314]

Very humble words from Dirk....Barg might have more lateral quickness but I think Dirk has more vertical ...

[gamer4Life]

By the way:

1. Your stats are wrong
2. Yi's played 15 games this year, compared to 40 for Bargs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nan01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lyi01.html

1. These were taken from another thread, and are probably several weeks old.
2. That's why I said that Yi is about the same as Bargs was a year ago.

Ironic to see how people who supported Bargs are giving doubt to other players... "NO way can he be like Bargs, he's ONLY played x # of games!"

[Indeed]

Bargnani plays the PF most of the time, and Bosh plays the C, unless the opposing C is too big, which Bosh and Bargs will switch around on defense.

Meanwhile, it is not the offense that Bargnani is providing, it is his defense that makes him a complete player as compare to Dirk on only excel in his offense.
Dirk is better:
- Post game (Dirk is better, but Bargs can be more skillful in this)
- Rebounding (Bargs is getting there, might slightly below Dirk)
- Aggressiveness (Dirk will always be better here, and because he is the leader of the team)
- Pump fakes (Dirk has lots of experience here, and I think he will always be better)
- Offensive awareness (Bargs cannot learn this)

Bargs is better:
- Defense (much better than Dirk)
- Blocks (much better than Dirk)
- Defensive awareness (slightly better)
- Positioning (better than Dirk)

The defense blows out Dirk, so if you are including blocks, it would be a different comparison.

You Toronto homers really can be vexing. You just lose a lot of credibility when you make posts like these.

Bargs is "slightly" below Dirk? Do you even watch/follow basketball?

THREE times Dirk has finished TOP TEN in the NBA in RPG.
NINE times Dirk has finished TOP TEN in the NBA in defensive RPG.
TWICE Dirk has finished TOP FIVE in the NBA in defensive rebound %.
Dirk is NUMBER TWENTY-FIVE ALL-TIME IN NBA HISTORY in defensive rebounds.

Bargs highest defensive rebound % is 17.1. Dirk's is 25.1.

This is a guy who averages 11 RPG in the playoffs.

Can Bargs become a better rebounder? Sure. Near Dirk's level, not even close. Dirk was one of THE BEST defensive rebounders in the NBA. Bargs is considered a poor rebounder.

Slightly my ass.

As for Bargs being a better defender, lmao!

This coming from an awful defensive team?

TWICE Dirk has finished 6th in the NBA in defensive win shares. He is TENTH in the NBA among active players in career defensive win shares. You realize there is more to defense than blocks & steals right? Even in those, peak Dirk averaged 1.4 and 1.3 BPG, right at Bargs level. As for steals, Dirk has averaged over 1 per game six times. Bargs never has.

I like Bargs a lot. But don't spew out ignorant things you clearly know nothing about. You make your fanbase look ignorant.

Not sure where you got the reference on the rebounding rate, here is the one on basketball reference (Advance section):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... tdi01.html
Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB%
2006-07 28 DAL NBA 78 2821 27.6 .605 .529 5.3 23.8 14.8
2001-02 23 DAL NBA 76 2891 24.1 .599 .532 4.7 24.0 14.5
2005-06 27 DAL NBA 81 3089 28.1 .589 .515 4.6 23.4 14.2
2002-03 24 DAL NBA 80 3117 25.6 .581 .513 2.9 25.1 14.0
2004-05 26 DAL NBA 78 3020 26.1 .578 .490 3.6 24.0 14.0
2007-08 29 DAL NBA 77 2769 24.6 .585 .510 4.1 22.8 13.8
2000-01 22 DAL NBA 82 3125 22.8 .601 .534 4.4 22.1 13.5
2008-09 30 DAL NBA 81 3050 23.1 .564 .498 3.3 22.1 12.8
2003-04 25 DAL NBA 77 2915 22.5 .561 .500 3.3 22.2 12.5
2009-10 31 DAL NBA 39 1478 23.2 .565 .491 2.8 20.8 11.9
1999-00 21 DAL NBA 82 2938 17.5 .564 .513 3.8 15.6 9.7
1998-99 20 DAL NBA 47 958 12.8 .491 .426 4.8 14.3 9.5
Career NBA 878 32171 23.8 .580 .510 4.0 22.2 13.2

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nan01.html
Season Age Tm Lg G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB%
2009-10 24 TOR NBA 40 1372 16.4 .564 .532 4.7 17.1 11.1
2008-09 23 TOR NBA 78 2453 14.6 .559 .512 3.4 16.4 10.0
2006-07 21 TOR NBA 65 1629 12.8 .546 .507 3.7 14.8 9.2
2007-08 22 TOR NBA 78 1861 10.6 .495 .448 3.2 15.2 9.2
Career NBA 261 7315 13.5 .541 .499 3.7 15.9 9.8


And if you check this year, Bargnani has 6 games with 30%+ DRB%, and he is improving.
k G Date Age Tm Opp GS MP TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB%
1 39 2010-01-15 24-081 TOR NYK W 1 38:55 .865 .885 0.0 42.3 17.8
2 35 2010-01-06 24-072 TOR ORL W 1 30:30 .533 .500 3.7 40.8 18.0
3 14 2009-11-22 24-027 TOR ORL L 1 26:06 .463 .409 3.8 36.8 18.6
4 38 2010-01-11 24-077 TOR IND L 1 35:50 .381 .321 11.2 34.8 23.2
5 5 2009-11-06 24-011 TOR NOH W 1 34:23 .504 .500 3.7 31.9 17.2
6 25 2009-12-13 24-048 TOR HOU W 1 30:59 .589 .591 0.0 31.0 13.4


I mean Dirk is really excellent here, but I think Bargnani has been underrated because of his number, and playing along side with Bosh, and sometimes defending on the perimeter.

[TCHOKE]

dirk will go down as one of the best most unique pf in the league..
if bargs even gets to half or 3/4 of dirk that would be amazing.

[ff_29]

By the way:

1. Your stats are wrong
2. Yi's played 15 games this year, compared to 40 for Bargs

http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... nan01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/pla ... lyi01.html

1. These were taken from another thread, and are probably several weeks old.
2. That's why I said that Yi is about the same as Bargs was a year ago.

Ironic to see how people who supported Bargs are giving doubt to other players... "NO way can he be like Bargs, he's ONLY played x # of games!"

1. Why go searching through old threads for old stats when current stats are readily available? If you're trying to make a point using stats alone, the least you could do is use the most relevant data.

2. Comparing 15 games worth of Yi's #s this year to 82 games worth of stats for Bargs last year, and concluding that they are "about the same" is a reach if I've ever seen one. I could easily pick out a 15 game stretch from last season where Bargs put up much better numbers than what Yi's done so far this year (and conversely, there was likely a 15 game stretch near the beginning of the season where he was worse).

I'm making no conclusions about comparisons between Yi and Bargs. I'm only pointing out the oversight you made while trying to compare the two.

[gamer1314]

Let's not get over our heads here...Bargs is now playing great... but he has still done nothing yet...he still has consistency issue...and in no way be better than Dirk defensively...Dirk's rebounding is still light years ahead of Barg.

[Seasontickets]

One thing that has to be remembered too is that Dirk played with Steve Nash from the beginning of his career.

They were a great pick and roll duo. So, that amps up Dirk's averages.

[Duffman100]

dirk will go down as one of the best most unique pf in the league..
if bargs even gets to half or 3/4 of dirk that would be amazing.

+1

[gamer4Life]

1. Why go searching through old threads for old stats when current stats are readily available? If you're trying to make a point using stats alone, the least you could do is use the most relevant data.

2. Comparing 15 games worth of Yi's #s this year to 82 games worth of stats for Bargs last year, and concluding that they are "about the same" is a reach if I've ever seen one. I could easily pick out a 15 game stretch from last season where Bargs put up much better numbers than what Yi's done so far this year (and conversely, there was likely a 15 game stretch near the beginning of the season where he was worse).

I'm making no conclusions about comparisons between Yi and Bargs. I'm only pointing out the oversight you made while trying to compare the two.

1. I'm lazy, it was already formatted nicely, so I used it. 3-week old data is still relatively new. But since you insist:

Per 36 Minutes
Glossary ▪ CSV ▪ PRE
Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Andrea Bargnani 2009-10 24 40 40 1372 7.0 14.7 .474 1.7 4.5 .382 2.5 3.1 .798 1.4 5.4 6.8 1.1 0.4 1.5 1.6 3.2 18.2
2 Yi Jianlian 2009-10 22 15 14 515 5.7 13.1 .433 0.4 1.2 .353 5.1 6.2 .820 2.1 5.6 7.7 0.4 0.8 1.0 2.0 3.4 16.8

2. You're missing the point. Bargs played badly to start last season, and started showing potential when Jay took over. At that point, people weren't sure if it was just an aberration because he didn't play enough games. Plus his defense still sucked. Same as with Yi now.

[ff_29]

1. Why go searching through old threads for old stats when current stats are readily available? If you're trying to make a point using stats alone, the least you could do is use the most relevant data.

2. Comparing 15 games worth of Yi's #s this year to 82 games worth of stats for Bargs last year, and concluding that they are "about the same" is a reach if I've ever seen one. I could easily pick out a 15 game stretch from last season where Bargs put up much better numbers than what Yi's done so far this year (and conversely, there was likely a 15 game stretch near the beginning of the season where he was worse).

I'm making no conclusions about comparisons between Yi and Bargs. I'm only pointing out the oversight you made while trying to compare the two.

1. I'm lazy, it was already formatted nicely, so I used it. 3-week old data is still relatively new. But since you insist:

Per 36 Minutes
Glossary ▪ CSV ▪ PRE
Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Andrea Bargnani 2009-10 24 40 40 1372 7.0 14.7 .474 1.7 4.5 .382 2.5 3.1 .798 1.4 5.4 6.8 1.1 0.4 1.5 1.6 3.2 18.2
2 Yi Jianlian 2009-10 22 15 14 515 5.7 13.1 .433 0.4 1.2 .353 5.1 6.2 .820 2.1 5.6 7.7 0.4 0.8 1.0 2.0 3.4 16.8

2. You're missing the point. Bargs played badly to start last season, and started showing potential when Jay took over. At that point, people weren't sure if it was just an aberration because he didn't play enough games. Plus his defense still sucked. Same as with Yi now.

'New' is a relative term, but 3 week old data for a player who came back from injury 4 weeks ago is actually ancient. As for your point, most Bargnani supporters were being mocked last year when they were praising Bargnani for having turned the corner after 10-15 games of good play. And while they were likely premature in drawing those conclusions, it was the way he played for the remainder of the season that led to any sort of justification for those claims. If Yi can sustain his pace for the rest of the year, then make conclusions. But right now, it's just 15 games.

[Indeed]

1. I'm lazy, it was already formatted nicely, so I used it. 3-week old data is still relatively new. But since you insist:

Per 36 Minutes
Glossary ▪ CSV ▪ PRE
Rk Player Season Age G GS MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS
1 Andrea Bargnani 2009-10 24 40 40 1372 7.0 14.7 .474 1.7 4.5 .382 2.5 3.1 .798 1.4 5.4 6.8 1.1 0.4 1.5 1.6 3.2 18.2
2 Yi Jianlian 2009-10 22 15 14 515 5.7 13.1 .433 0.4 1.2 .353 5.1 6.2 .820 2.1 5.6 7.7 0.4 0.8 1.0 2.0 3.4 16.8

2. You're missing the point. Bargs played badly to start last season, and started showing potential when Jay took over. At that point, people weren't sure if it was just an aberration because he didn't play enough games. Plus his defense still sucked. Same as with Yi now.

'New' is a relative term, but 3 week old data for a player who came back from injury 4 weeks ago is actually ancient. As for your point, most Bargnani supporters were being mocked last year when they were praising Bargnani for having turned the corner after 10-15 games of good play. And while they were likely premature in drawing those conclusions, it was the way he played for the remainder of the season that led to any sort of justification for those claims. If Yi can sustain his pace for the rest of the year, then make conclusions. But right now, it's just 15 games.

The difference of Bargnani is, he used to only play 25 mins per game, and he became much effective when he played 35 mins per game.

Meanwhile, Yi has always been a starter, so it is hard to determine if he really turned the corner.
However, he answered to those questions, why he suddenly turned and become a 18/10 guy, that he has been watching videos in his injury time. So he can possibly improved over that period.
But he still needs to learn more moves (same for Bargnani) in order to create his own shot.

[LLJ]

Dirk is being nice. I think Dirk is and was more athletic than Andrea.

Andrea, however, does have a bigger type of body compared to Dirk so he has a different kind of potential than Dirk as a big man.

You know, that 3 point dagger Bargs hit on Dirk late in the game made me smile. I was wondering if Dirk was thinking, "Damn, so that's how it feels for guys defending me!"

As for Yi vs Bargs, I don't know who's better. All I know is that Bargs is finally playing some competent D as a centre and that has been much more of an impact than his offensive numbers or even rebounds.

[gamer4Life]

'New' is a relative term, but 3 week old data for a player who came back from injury 4 weeks ago is actually ancient. As for your point, most Bargnani supporters were being mocked last year when they were praising Bargnani for having turned the corner after 10-15 games of good play. And while they were likely premature in drawing those conclusions, it was the way he played for the remainder of the season that led to any sort of justification for those claims. If Yi can sustain his pace for the rest of the year, then make conclusions. But right now, it's just 15 games.

Well if you can find another player in the NBA that is similar to Bargnani in height, weight, size, 3-pt ability, age, time in the league, and overall stats, then be my guess.

No one is making conclusions, my original point was that the most similar player to Bargnani right now is Yi. Yes, even over Dirk.

[ff_29]

'New' is a relative term, but 3 week old data for a player who came back from injury 4 weeks ago is actually ancient. As for your point, most Bargnani supporters were being mocked last year when they were praising Bargnani for having turned the corner after 10-15 games of good play. And while they were likely premature in drawing those conclusions, it was the way he played for the remainder of the season that led to any sort of justification for those claims. If Yi can sustain his pace for the rest of the year, then make conclusions. But right now, it's just 15 games.

Well if you can find another player in the NBA that is similar to Bargnani in height, weight, size, 3-pt ability, age, time in the league, and overall stats, then be my guess.

No one is making conclusions, my original point was that the most similar player to Bargnani right now is Yi. Yes, even over Dirk.

The idiom is "be my guest."

And no need to get caught up in semantics wrt conclusions vs. points. You make a claim that Yi is about the same as Bargs, and your only proof in that first post is ~8 games worth of stats. Not exactly compelling.