2024 NBA Draft Lottery | TODAY! @3pm EST | Update: Raptors Convey 8th Pick to Spurs

[Los_29]

Can he make a shot outside of 5 feet? Can he switch onto smaller players? Is he elite enough at anything else to make up for it?
That doesn't make him trash - he's probably as good as say, Hartenstein. But he barely gets starter minutes on a terrible team and plays even less in the 4th quarter.

He can switch, he proofed it times and times again. But in the end it is always a mismatch for every big guy, no matter if you are a star or not.

He is an Elite Rimprotector, a good passer for a center (adn the 2nd/3rd best in the raps overall), he is probably the wet Dream of a Teamoriented Roleplayer you can wish for, he can anchor a Defense like not many others can. He is top in rebounding and Elite in finishing. The only point i give you is his lack of shooting. And to compare him to hartenstein is so dumb, that i cant even answer it in a polite way.

The last sentence doesnt make much sense either, cause as for as ive seen, he was starting the last 4 years and played significant minutes. His 4Q Play is underrated and reduced by uneducated fools to his FreeThrow shooting who dont even bother to look up that his FreeThrows in the 4 are better than average and that he barely shoots them. On top of it, every time Hack-a-Poeltl was tried, it was a failure.

If Poeltl is such an important player, why has he never averaged 30 mpg? If he solves so many problems and there aren't any other Cs on the roster, why did he rank 8th on the team in minute last year, barely ahead of KO's journeyman ass? If he is so clutch in 4th quarters, why was he benched entirely almost 25% of the time?

Player A per 100 possessions: 16.7 PPG, 15.5 RPG, 4.6 APG, 1.9 SPG, 2.5 BPG, .630 TS%, 1.8 BPM, 0.176 WS/48
Player B per 100 possessions: 18.7 PPG, 15.0 RPG, 3.9 APG, 1.3 SPG, 2.9 BPG, .629 TS%, 1.1 BPM, 0.159 WS/48

Guess which one is Poeltl and which one is Hartenstein

How many centers actually play heavy minutes? Even guys like Jokic and Embiid barely play over 30 minutes a game. Poeltl was not 8th on our team in minutes. I can’t believe you didn’t bother to even check that. You know who is ahead of him? Pascal, OG and Dennis. Three players who are NOT on our team anymore. With our current roster, you really think he would be 8th in minutes?

I always find player A and player B comparisons funny but the reality is Poeltl is a better player than Hartenstein. When the Knicks were healthy, Hartenstein was barely playing.

[Duffman100]

Hartenstein is also likely to make 24-28 million a year this offseason

[ItsDanger]

Poeltl is an expendable asset if you're realistic about this team's potential. Some teams need a C so Masai needs to sell.

[brownbobcat]

How many centers actually play heavy minutes? Even guys like Jokic and Embiid barely play over 30 minutes a game. Poeltl was not 8th on our team in minutes. I can’t believe you didn’t bother to even check that. You know who is ahead of him? Pascal, OG and Dennis. Three players who are NOT on our team anymore. With our current roster, you really think he would be 8th in minutes?

Uhh, that doesn't help your argument. You can't simultaneously be not good enough to play heavy minutes and also be a major contributor to winning. Jokic plays 33-35 mins/game in the regular season and nearly 40 in the playoffs. Same goes for Embiid despite being made of glass, so I have no idea what you're talking about. 26.4 minutes is 26.4 minutes any way you want to slice it for Poeltl, he's barely ahead of Brown and Agbaji. The only other C on the team the year before was a very raw rookie C and Poeltl still couldn't crack 30 MPG despite being the "missing piece".

I always find player A and player B comparisons funny but the reality is Poeltl is a better player than Hartenstein. When the Knicks were healthy, Hartenstein was barely playing.

The point about Hartenstein was more about them being on the same tier, which they are. He and Robinson platoon the 5, the Raptors have no one else to turn to and Poeltl barely gets more minutes more in spite of that.

[brownbobcat]

Hartenstein is also likely to make 24-28 million a year this offseason

Stranger things have happened, but I highly doubt it. For starters, NYK doesn't have his Bird rights and their max offer is $16M. Is another team really going to see enough in Hart to throw a 17-20% cap contract at him?

[ciueli]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

[DelAbbot]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

This is why I have no faith in Masai to rebuild going forward - the lack of spacing was obvious to any fan with one or two brain cells and yet Masai thought Poeltl was the missing piece to the FVV+PS+OG+SB lineup.

[Duffman100]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

So no player has ever been outplayed by an inferior player before? And he was traded to a bad spurs team.

What even are these arguments? Lol

[brownbobcat]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

This is why I have no faith in Masai to rebuild going forward - the lack of spacing was obvious to any fan with one or two brain cells and yet Masai thought Poeltl was the missing piece to the FVV+PS+OG+SB lineup.

Poeltl is a decent player acquired at the wrong price for the wrong team. There's nothing inherently bad about being that role player 5th starter who does the dirty work - he's the equivalent of KCP or Looney. You just don't give up lottery picks to get guys like that, especially not when you have to pay them top-dollar salary too.

[YogurtProducer]

Do yall really think that absolutely nobody in this draft will amount to anything? Anything in terms of being atleast a strong asset or a name to remember. I can only think of Sarr being that guy in this draft

There will definitely be a player that pops, happens every draft. But it would be foolish going into a draft like this betting you'll be the one that will find that gem without understanding luck will play a huge factor.

For a team in our situation, it would be better if we had the 8th pick even with the draft being this bad. Poeltl for the 8th is probably fair value, but the moment FVV walked and we went into a rebuild, the premise of the trade no longer made sense. But I hope all the whining about the 29th pick is over with at this point. We got 2 rotation players for a 2nd round player with a guaranteed contract.

And if the reporting is correct, the 8th pick this year is closer to the 15th pick in a normal draft.

[PushDaRock]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

Raptors Record with Poeltl in 22-23 was 15-11 and 26-30 without him
Raptors Record with Poeltl in 23-24 was 21-29 and 4-28 without him

But sure he is the reason why they suddenly started sucking.

[DelAbbot]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

Raptors Record with Poeltl in 22-23 was 15-11 and 26-30 without him
Raptors Record with Poeltl in 23-24 was 21-29 and 4-28 without him

But sure he is the reason why they suddenly started sucking.

Don't mention Barnes was out and IQ and RJ held out for tanking during the majority of that 4-28. It almost makes Poeltl look as good as FVV

[aminiaturebuddha]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

So no player has ever been outplayed by an inferior player before? And he was traded to a bad spurs team.

What even are these arguments? Lol

One game is clearly enough to determine if one player is better than another player. Just look at this game.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200212150TOR.html

If Michael Jordan was so good, why did he get outplayed by Voshon Lenard?

[PushDaRock]

Do yall really think that absolutely nobody in this draft will amount to anything? Anything in terms of being atleast a strong asset or a name to remember. I can only think of Sarr being that guy in this draft.

Sucks we lost 8th cuz of the bad Poeltl trade but it ain’t so bad at the same time. These players are all so meh

I don't know but it's possible for this draft to be worse than 2000. Michael Redd was the best player. Magloire and Martin made an ASG. Hedo, Miller and Crawford had solid careers and a few other guys were decent role players but there was a crazy amount of busts.

[PushDaRock]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

Raptors Record with Poeltl in 22-23 was 15-11 and 26-30 without him
Raptors Record with Poeltl in 23-24 was 21-29 and 4-28 without him

But sure he is the reason why they suddenly started sucking.

Don't mention Barnes was out and IQ and RJ held out for tanking during the majority of that 4-28. It almost makes Poeltl look as good as FVV

Are the Raptors better with Poeltl or without him?

[Shakril]

This whole discussion is useless when half the board is pooping on Poeltl from the moment he was traded to Toronoto.

I dont even know what you guys want anymore. You got yourselfs in a rabbithole because of this one trade, that you cant come out of it anymore. Thats why you make stupid claims and comparisons, which have nothing to do with reality.

These following Facts wont change no matter how much pooping you do:

- Poeltl is a Top Center in the league who can literally do anything but shoot
- League is trending towards a Center Focused league, especially with Victor coming in
- The Raptors season ended the moment Poeltl went down in January. The Drop off in performance was so big, that even the biggest Poeltl hater were quiet. You just all forgot about it conveniently.
- He is on a good Contract, especially down the road with the TV money coming it. Which makes him a very good Trade assett.
- Poeltl himself was a #9 Pick in a rather good Draft - and unlike most Players he made it to his 3rd Contract. Many Lotterypicks dont even make it to their 2nd.
- Poeltl is a Starter since 4 years, which he wouldnt be if he were as bad as people make him to be. And those were not always bad teams. He just had the bad luck of beeing on consecutive teams that started a rebuild. (half season with the spurs at the end of his tenure, and now with the raps since the trades midseason happened, even though he didnt play much in that timeframe)


If you still think, that an unknown player at #8 in a bad draftyear that still will need 3 to 4 years to establish himself (which means after the contracts of Barnes & Co. are done), is more worth than a #9 Player in a good draft, who already established himself as a starter in the League, who is a Veteran at a young age (he just entered his prime), the definition of a perfect Roleplayer, then dont be surprised when things happen differently than you expect them to be.

[Shakril]

Raptors Record with Poeltl in 22-23 was 15-11 and 26-30 without him
Raptors Record with Poeltl in 23-24 was 21-29 and 4-28 without him

But sure he is the reason why they suddenly started sucking.

Don't mention Barnes was out and IQ and RJ held out for tanking during the majority of that 4-28. It almost makes Poeltl look as good as FVV

The more important stat is not the 4-28, but the stat in january and February were they were 2-11 i think.
Everybody else played and they couldnt win. And they couldnt win, cause the lack of everything Poeltl brings to the table.
But since memories are short, you find any excuse to diminish Poeltl, cause you need someone to poop on.

[Spida888]

Poeltl is a decent player acquired at the wrong price for the wrong team. There's nothing inherently bad about being that role player 5th starter who does the dirty work - he's the equivalent of KCP or Looney. You just don't give up lottery picks to get guys like that, especially not when you have to pay them top-dollar salary too.

This is pretty much my thoughts as well. If Masai is able to trade Poeltl to Memphis for #9 + filler, then it would ease the pain and help the tank.

Since it would only be dropping one spot from our original #8 pick, the optics wouldn't be so bad where the FO would hesitate to pull the trigger. Not sure if Memphis is even interested though.

[Shakril]

If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why did he get outplayed by Luke Kornet, the third string centre on the Celtics?

https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/202312290BOS.html

Luke Kornet made around 13% of the money Poeltl did this season and is struggling to stay in the league, BTW. He started for the Celtics that game because both Porzingis and Horford were out. Oh, yeah, the Celtics beat us that game even though they didn't have Jayson Tatum as well.

Here's another question. If Jakob Poeltl is so good, why does every team he start for suddenly suck? The only time he's made the playoffs as a starter for his team was 2019 on the Spurs when they lost in the first round, a series where he averaged 7.3 PPG, 7.7 RPG, and 1.3 APG in 25.3 MPG. Maybe it has something to do with him providing zero floor spacing and his inability to hit free throws?

He didnt get outplayed by luke kornet. In the end it is a team game, and when you are the last line of defense you always look bad. Its like in Football/Soccer, where the Goalie always looks the stupiest when the opponent scores. You say it yourself, Kornet has trouble to stay in the league, while Poeltl doesnt. That alone should tell you, how the League views those Players. Kornet was available, why haven the Raps traded for him?

And dont act as if Boston is a bad team without Porzinigs and Tatum. They are very deep, which the raptors were not.


And if you think, poeltl is the reason, teams started to suck, than you are not paying attention. The records with poeltl on the court is better, than the record without him. He had the bad luck at beeing at the start of a rebuild two times in a row now.

With you guys its like talking with Trumpers. You arent able to understand simple facts. The moment you create your opinion, you will shape every fact to fit your opinion or ignore it outwright instead of changing your mind with the new information you get.

[DelAbbot]

Did someone say Poeltl can do everything but shoot?

Poeltl is one of the few centers who has no post moves

PS layup and 5 ft push shot are not post moves