Re: OT: Leafs Playoff Run
Posted: Sat May 20, 2023 12:39 am
Why did Shanahan choose KD over Lou? He wanted a weak yes man? Lou is one of the best GMs in NHL history.
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WaltFrazier wrote:I don't follow closely enough to say, but was it a mistake choosing Dubas over Lou Lamoriello? Would we be further ahead with Lou by now?
ItsDanger wrote:From Shanahan's presser, he needs to go also. This is about money or indecision? LOL recognize the real on ice issues. What happened to Shanahan anyways?
tms wrote:Just watched the presser and thought it was fantastic. Shanny asserted his leadership (finally?). If the players feel more of a connection to Dubas, that's probably not a good thing. Shanahan is a HOFer. Dubas has/had never played hockey at all. Probably should have been let go sooner, if anything.
But mannnn... checking out some of these articles and I'd love to promote Wickenheiser. Shanny said he'd target candidates with experience- which makes sense to me too- but she might be my one exception. She's already on board, has worked with a lot of the kids, and just so happens to be one of the GOATs. I don't know about her Capology IQ but that could be exciting.
tms wrote:Just watched the presser and thought it was fantastic. Shanny asserted his leadership (finally?). If the players feel more of a connection to Dubas, that's probably not a good thing. Shanahan is a HOFer. Dubas has/had never played hockey at all. Probably should have been let go sooner, if anything.
But mannnn... checking out some of these articles and I'd love to promote Wickenheiser. Shanny said he'd target candidates with experience- which makes sense to me too- but she might be my one exception. She's already on board, has worked with a lot of the kids, and just so happens to be one of the GOATs. I don't know about her Capology IQ but that could be exciting.
will wrote:This Shanahan presser is fun!
WaltFrazier wrote:Imagine Hayley does get the job, and Becky the Raps coaching job.
WaltFrazier wrote:will wrote:This Shanahan presser is fun!
Just saw it finally, just now on Sports Center. Wow, the level of detail and nuance that Shanahan opened up about. Imagine if Masai went into that kind of detail when he fired Casey, or Nick
WaltFrazier wrote:will wrote:This Shanahan presser is fun!
Just saw it finally, just now on Sports Center. Wow, the level of detail and nuance that Shanahan opened up about. Imagine if Masai went into that kind of detail when he fired Casey, or Nick
fbalmeida wrote:Shocking. But ultimately, I'm ok with it, considering it clarifies who may be to blame going forward. Dubas wanted more money and autonomy, and you could argue if that was reasonable or not. In the end, Shanny didn't agree with it and, as he said several times throughout his presser, had already started looking elsewhere. The rest was theatre.
OK. Fine.
But make no mistake: the next one is on you Shanny.
Proceed...
Dubas was asking for quite a raise if the numbers that were reported are true. That's more or less Dubas saying: "I don't want to continue as the GM, but I don't want to be frontal about it, but I also don't want to make an obviously non-serious counter-offer."
I think canning Spezza, and not making room for him in the organization is a mistake. Nothing but selfless dedication and competence from him and he gets hit in the crossfire.
I see many a mindless puckhead cheering this spectacle on. They wanted someone to get the axe, instead of carrying on with a path of incremental improvement and Dubas' learning curve. So Dubas, Spezza, and apparently the entire Marlies coaching staff has gotten the axe.
What Spezza getting canned tells me, and also what I can tell from Shanahan's comments on Dubas, is that there was no hockey-based criteria involved in these decisions. It's all personal.
I just hope the puckheads will be able to stomach the next imbecilic 2nd coming of John Ferguson Jr. The initial shortlists of potential successors is nauseating.
2019nbachamps wrote:Why did Shanahan choose KD over Lou? He wanted a weak yes man? Lou is one of the best GMs in NHL history.
JB7 wrote:Tavares is just an example of it is possible for some Toronto born star players to return. Generally though that is not the case.
If Matthews signs in Arizona, I wouldn't be surprised to see the City flip on the arena deal. If Matthews cares about winning, why would he stay with an organization that has not won a Cup, or even been to a finals since 1967? I don't think Matthews cares about winning all that much. I think money and lifestyle are higher on his list.
I can't even recall what we were arguing about here
I think you are too focused on the averaging 2 goals a game. What I said is teams need to be able to win low scoring close games. No team currently in the league even averages 2 goals a game. The point is Cup winners have to have an average to good offense and great defense. Teams that are great on offense and weak on defense (Leafs, Capitals during most of their stretch) tend not to win.
The teams I listed were all average to good offences, and very strong on the backend.
Leafs aren't a great team. If they were, they would have made it out of the 1st round more than once in 7 seasons. Capitals, while not winning for many years, at least made it to later rounds throughout those early seasons.
Don't worry, the way MLSE operates with the Leafs, you may get your way, they will over reach in signing the core back, and experience another 7 seasons of 1st round losses. The reason I will continue to follow the Raps over the Leafs.
Yes, Messier was a decisive factor in all of his Cup wins. Think of him as a Jimmy Butler. Type of player that gets it done in the playoffs. Equivalent for Gretzky is probably Durant. Superstar offensive player, that needed a lot of help to win in the playoffs.
If the Rangers swapped Messier for Gretzky, no way they win that Cup.
7 years is a long time. Their careers might only be 14-15 seasons, and their peak performance could be nearing the end. At 26 and 27, they aren't all that young anymore. Longer the team waits to trade any of them, the less value they have on the market, and the risk they could sign elsewhere in FA.
Avs may perform well in the season, but how many playoff runs will they have without players like Landeskog & Kadri?
Marner is being paid to be that level of impact player, and as you have described above, to finish the play (score the goal), Marner relies on another player. The truly great players, that win in the NHL, are the ones that can finish the play themselves (score the big goal), in addition to creating opportunities for others.
If Marner were making closer to $6M, he would be more evenly valued for his role on the team. At $11M he is not. And the reason the Leafs continue to underperform in the playoffs.
fbalmeida wrote:Dubas was asking for quite a raise if the numbers that were reported are true. That's more or less Dubas saying: "I don't want to continue as the GM, but I don't want to be frontal about it, but I also don't want to make an obviously non-serious counter-offer."
I think canning Spezza, and not making room for him in the organization is a mistake. Nothing but selfless dedication and competence from him and he gets hit in the crossfire.
I see many a mindless puckhead cheering this spectacle on. They wanted someone to get the axe, instead of carrying on with a path of incremental improvement and Dubas' learning curve. So Dubas, Spezza, and apparently the entire Marlies coaching staff has gotten the axe.
GQStylin wrote:fbalmeida wrote:Dubas was asking for quite a raise if the numbers that were reported are true. That's more or less Dubas saying: "I don't want to continue as the GM, but I don't want to be frontal about it, but I also don't want to make an obviously non-serious counter-offer."
Although its abit weird for Dubas to be asking for more money at this point of the negotiations rather than much earlier its kinda crazy that Masai is getting like 15 million a year while Dubas having to do much more was offered 4 million. Even if he was rumored to be wanting 6 million, that's still a bargain for how much work he does compared to what Masai does.
I mean seriously Masai's job mostly seems to be doing marketing and charity/community work than having to manage the Raps much. A 'busy' trade deadline would be him moving a couple of players around and he only has to deal with two rounds in the draft. As for free agency? Just try to sign or trade for another couple of guys and that's about it.
Compare that to being a Leafs GM where you have to prepare for sometimes a huge draft where you might have a ton of picks to use, a busy trade deadline and then a busy free agency. Then of course you also have to constantly worry about the salary cap and making sure any moves you make keeps you under that cap. And this doesn't even include constantly scouting and signing new players that can help your team or the Marlies and making sure the prospects you drafted are developing properly. So much more work to do for so much less money.I think canning Spezza, and not making room for him in the organization is a mistake. Nothing but selfless dedication and competence from him and he gets hit in the crossfire.
Spezza wasn't fired. He resigned after Dubas left. Who knows maybe he didn't want to stay without Dubas or he didn't think he had a role with the Leafs after Dubas left or maybe resigned before he thought he might get fired etc.I see many a mindless puckhead cheering this spectacle on. They wanted someone to get the axe, instead of carrying on with a path of incremental improvement and Dubas' learning curve. So Dubas, Spezza, and apparently the entire Marlies coaching staff has gotten the axe.
Moore was kinda crappy as Marlies coach so losing him isn't a big deal. I do agree that while it sucked that the Leafs didn't accomplish much more in the playoffs under Dubas that the team in general was headed in the right direction and the foundation of the franchise is pretty good right now with a pretty good prospect pool to look foward to as well as Dubas leaving the team with no bad long term contracts.