Spates wrote:ForeverTFC wrote:Spates wrote:It's hyperbole, Duff. You get the point I'm making. If the conversation could be more level people wouldn't be diverted to extremes.
He’s a top 5 player in the history of this franchise. Yet no one on this board has ever pretended that Pascal is a superstar or a first option, save perhaps 6 months in ‘20. No one is the other side of your extreme when it comes to Pascal.
And even if that boogeyman existed, why would that give you the go ahead to actively hate on a guy that is by all accounts one of the biggest success stories of this franchise and a critical part of its first ever championship?
It's the treatment of personal opinion as inarguably truth. Statements like "he’s a top 5 player in the history of this franchise," drive me crazy. Everyone's entitled to their opinion but his top 5 status is debatable, top 10 certainly. Regardless, it's not terribly meaningful when the prospect of retiring Vince Carter's jersey, who arguably top 2 or 3, is hotly contested.
And what follows is predictable. You tell me he was the second option on a championship team. I tell you that misrepresents his role on the team. Lowry and Gasol had greater significance, imo. Then comes the 2x all-star and all-nba rhetoric as if they tell you all need to know about a player. When I consider Siakam I see someone who went from an incredible team-centric player to someone steadfast in developing their individual capacity to the detriment of team success. I think what he provides now is highly replaceable in most situations. Playing with Haliburton is ideal, so there's that.
As for the Boogeyman stuff, it's simple. His failure disproves any narratives that losing him was an irredeemable mistake. Or that the return was terrible. It's terrible based on reputation, closer to fair based on impact.
He is top 5 without debate lol
Only VC, Bosh, Siakam, Demar, and Lowry have been named to an all star game more than once.
That same list, sans Bosh, have been named to more than 1 all-nba team
Siakam also has a championship
5th in points, 3rd in rebounds, 5th in assists, 9th in blocks, 10th in steals, 5th in games,.
4th in VORP, 5th in win shares, 10th in Box +/- (extremely flawed - Bebe is 7th lol)
Who the hell is above Siakam? It cant be Bosh OR Demar considering they have nothing on Siakam. They have neither team nor personal success.