Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[2019nbachamps]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

[Merit]

Wouldn't bank on Ochai being a rotation player for any longer if he can't knock down the 3 ball.

It's basically playing 5 onn 4 out there with him on the floor.

I’m pretty sure that shooting improvement is precisely what we’re banking on, given his ability to hit from the corners previously.

Yeah, when has drafting for, trading for, or signing players who can't shoot and thinking we can teach them to shoot, ever backfired right?

I’m indifferent to Ochai. He’s on a rookie scale contract though, so is likely to stick around.

Pascal, Fred, OG and Norm say hi. Gradey too - from the beginning of the season to the end.

[agkagk]

Players are different than picks though. I can guarantee that if the Raps select an allstar (or close) level player at 19, right or wrong, it changes the perception of the deal.

Trade all our pricks and brown for kuminga

Barrett quick kuminga Barnes Jakob

Problem solved.

There are definitely a lot of pricks in this thread lol.

I would rather move Brown+ for wiggins and get some picks for our trouble.

Well you know what they say….

“ eeeeeevery trade has its thorn. Just like eeeevery raptor fan, sings a sad sad song…. “

Beautiful.


Seriously though — rj quick wiggins barnes jakub would probably be a 4th seed in the east.

Contrary to the common opinion on this board — wiggins is AT WORST a top 5 3 and d wing.

The way we used og vs the way og wanted to be utilized

Is equal to

the way wiggins wants to be used vs the way the world wants him to be utilized

Dudes very content (and more durable) defending offensive initiation at the top of the key and hitting corner threes.

Hes just entered his prime, hes championship proven and realistically super elite in og’s role.

Seriously:

Oj is in a class of his own

But after mcdaniels and wiggins

Theres a big drop off with guys like aaron gordon and lu dort.

Just my two cents.

[brownbobcat]

This man is still going.

We can’t possibly know with 100% certainty what could’ve happened, because it didn’t. Neither of us can. However - adding a 5 win player to a team (Fred) and hoping for growth from the rookie of the year (Scottie) and actually having a 3 win big to rely on (Poeltl) and a big with defensive potential to develop (Koloko) and all our picks minus this year’s (the aim was to make the playoffs so conveying a mid pick in a below mid draft) makes sense as an alternative.

Getting rid of Nick Nurse and replacing him with a coach insistent on moving the ball is another indication of where their mind was at. Fred would not have been able to play hero ball as it wouldn’t have been tolerated.

Fred chose the money and didn’t like Scottie having the limelight (golden boy comment and subsequent interviews substantiate this imo).

It’s not rocket science. The logic is sound. It didn’t happen. Let’s move on.

You guys can maintain whatever fantasies you want, 5/8/10 extra wins (as if that mattered) but the cognitive dissonance is jarring.

Nurse was the problem (even though he played a huge role in the 48 win season touted ad nauseam).

FVV hero ball was the problem (even though he played the same way in '22)

FVV adds 10+ wins to this team (but isn't worth the max and needed to be reined in)

Corollary:
Siakam was never fetching a huge package (but also good enough to keep as a part of the core trio)

[Scase]

I’m pretty sure that shooting improvement is precisely what we’re banking on, given his ability to hit from the corners previously.

Yeah, when has drafting for, trading for, or signing players who can't shoot and thinking we can teach them to shoot, ever backfired right?

I’m indifferent to Ochai. He’s on a rookie scale contract though, so is likely to stick around.

Pascal, Fred, OG and Norm say hi. Gradey too - from the beginning of the season to the end.

FVV shot 38% his first season, averaged 38% in college. No.
OG shot 37% his first season, averaged 36.5% in college. No.
Norm shot 40% his first season, averaged 31% in college. No, unless you think they taught him how to shoot a 3 in like 2 months.
Siakam is a decent example.
Gradey....are you joking? He was literally drafted BECAUSE he can shoot. 40% in college. No, not at all.

These are some of the worst examples you could have picked, my god.

[Duffman100]

Wouldn't bank on Ochai being a rotation player for any longer if he can't knock down the 3 ball.

It's basically playing 5 onn 4 out there with him on the floor.

I’m pretty sure that shooting improvement is precisely what we’re banking on, given his ability to hit from the corners previously.

Yeah, when has drafting for, trading for, or signing players who can't shoot and thinking we can teach them to shoot, ever backfired right?

Except, as I showed you earlier in this thread, his shooting improved throughout college and into his first NBA season. So there’s reason to believe last season was an outlier.

Not saying it 100% is an outlier and it could be the norm. But it could be a smart buy.

People complain about us not hitting “on the edges”. This is an exact move that could be us hitting on the edges. You need to see where value might be had.

[Scase]

I’m pretty sure that shooting improvement is precisely what we’re banking on, given his ability to hit from the corners previously.

Yeah, when has drafting for, trading for, or signing players who can't shoot and thinking we can teach them to shoot, ever backfired right?

Except, as I showed you earlier in this thread, his shooting improved throughout college and into his first NBA season. So there’s reason to believe last season was an outlier.

Not saying it 100% is an outlier and it could be the norm. But it could be a smart buy.

People complain about us not hitting “on the edges”. This is an exact move that could be us hitting on the edges. You need to see where value might be had.

Complaining about hitting on the fringes is still valid, until he turns out to be anything but a borderline NBA player. Not giving him flowers for making a trade until the player actually shows something. If Ochai turns into a legitimate roster player, I will happily say I was wrong, but until then, nothing changes.

[Merit]

Yeah, when has drafting for, trading for, or signing players who can't shoot and thinking we can teach them to shoot, ever backfired right?

Except, as I showed you earlier in this thread, his shooting improved throughout college and into his first NBA season. So there’s reason to believe last season was an outlier.

Not saying it 100% is an outlier and it could be the norm. But it could be a smart buy.

People complain about us not hitting “on the edges”. This is an exact move that could be us hitting on the edges. You need to see where value might be had.

Complaining about hitting on the fringes is still valid, until he turns out to be anything but a borderline NBA player. Not giving him flowers for making a trade until the player actually shows something. If Ochai turns into a legitimate roster player, I will happily say I was wrong, but until then, nothing changes.

I don’t get the vitriol for a player who’s young, is working towards being a rotation player, is by all accounts a team player and is signed on a rookie scale contract.

Congratulations on stating what you currently see. Give yourself some space to be pleasantly surprised and you might just end up with that experience.

[Zeno]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

I love Pascal but I disagree. I don’t think his next contract will be looked at as a very good asset if it is a four year max. I also would point you to consider his last three playoff performances, the last of which he was kind of dominated by Bobby Portis. Now don’t get me wrong I think he is a very very good player. Dominant against against a mismatch even but he also is more prone to getting shut down by a bad matchup than your average all-star as well.

[jrask]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

You may be right.

We'll just have to wait and see.

[Duffman100]

Yeah, when has drafting for, trading for, or signing players who can't shoot and thinking we can teach them to shoot, ever backfired right?

Except, as I showed you earlier in this thread, his shooting improved throughout college and into his first NBA season. So there’s reason to believe last season was an outlier.

Not saying it 100% is an outlier and it could be the norm. But it could be a smart buy.

People complain about us not hitting “on the edges”. This is an exact move that could be us hitting on the edges. You need to see where value might be had.

Complaining about hitting on the fringes is still valid, until he turns out to be anything but a borderline NBA player. Not giving him flowers for making a trade until the player actually shows something. If Ochai turns into a legitimate roster player, I will happily say I was wrong, but until then, nothing changes.

It's not about giving him flowers for making a trade.

It's about being patient, realizing what the trade is about, that Ochai wouldn't be available for a late 1st if his shot didn't regress in his 2nd year. It's a buy low candidate that could result in a 'he was able to find a gem or solid rotation player somewhere'.

[Pointgod]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

[Fairview4Life]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

OG? Like all "assets", how long to hold it depends on a whole bunch of other factors.

[brownbobcat]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

OG? Like all "assets", how long to hold it depends on a whole bunch of other factors.

OG was always going to get a very good return because of his age and fit - you can plug him into the starting lineup of all 30 teams in the NBA.

[Pointgod]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

OG? Like all "assets", how long to hold it depends on a whole bunch of other factors.

There was talk of OG getting a Donovan Mitchell like return last season so yeah we could have gotten more for him if we traded him earlier but that doesn’t mean we didn’t get a good return for him despite the circumstances.

[Fairview4Life]

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

OG? Like all "assets", how long to hold it depends on a whole bunch of other factors.

There was talk of OG getting a Donovan Mitchell like return last season so yeah we could have gotten more for him if we traded him earlier but that doesn’t mean we didn’t get a good return for him despite the circumstances.

Lol, there was talk? There's talk of a whole lot of things apparently.

[Merit]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

Meh. People will take him seriously because he’s willing to wait.

However, yes - had he traded pascal earlier he may have gotten something better or at least different. The rationale for sticking with him and trying to see if he and Scottie could coexist makes sense, and if nothing else, patience is a competitive advantage if used correctly.

Can you remind me what rumoured player/picks/trade package is the one you are focusing on that’s better than what the Raps got for Pascal?

[OakleyDokely]

The rumored packages for OG prior to this season were:

...to the Knicks or Grizz for 3 mid-late 1sts, which is basically the Siakam package.
...to the Blazers for pick #7 (Sharpe) and Hart, which is close in value to what the Raps eventually got from the Knicks.

Whether these above deals were actually on the table, who knows, but I don't recall reading/hearing any offers for OG better than the deals above or the deal they eventually got.

[Merit]

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

OG? Like all "assets", how long to hold it depends on a whole bunch of other factors.

There was talk of OG getting a Donovan Mitchell like return last season so yeah we could have gotten more for him if we traded him earlier but that doesn’t mean we didn’t get a good return for him despite the circumstances.

Have you ever framed a sale?

[ArthurVandelay]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

Meh. People will take him seriously because he’s willing to wait.

However, yes - had he traded pascal earlier he may have gotten something better or at least different. The rationale for sticking with him and trying to see if he and Scottie could coexist makes sense, and if nothing else, patience is a competitive advantage if used correctly.

Can you remind me what rumoured player/picks/trade package is the one you are focusing on that’s better than what the Raps got for Pascal?

And that is what is never discussed. I beg anyone who thinks Raptors were hosed on Siakam trade, go to HoopsHype.com and search the rumors for "Siakam trade." Look through what was being reported. It was always a crap return. Despite his awards and accomplishments, a maxed Siakam and a Siakam looking for a max never had very good trade value.

You can't trade for players or picks that aren't offered.