Siakam trade for basically nothing is now showing its effect

[ArthurVandelay]

I say this....sometimes there are windows to trading a player and if you miss it, you miss it

Lowe's reporting is that this was the return they would have gotten if they moved a year earlier. If folks are not satisfied with the return (I am one of those folks), they should have been advocating for Pascal to be re-signed (as I was during the whole season). The guy is criminally underrated and we could have moved his contract down the road for a similar haul if it came down to it.

I understand ripping the band aid off but I hate how little we were rewarded for it.

I was so all over the place. I wanted to keep OG but also saw the logic in trading him. I wanted to keep Pascal if the offer was terrible but understood dealing him too.

I'm really happy I don't make these decisions for a living.

Oh man, there is nothing else I'd rather do.

[ArthurVandelay]

The biggest factor is his age. IND is going to be paying close to 50 mill a year for his 30-34 years and teams, especially recently, have been reluctant to give huge money to guys in their 30s who aren't superstars. If we was in his mid 20s, there would've been a lot more teams interested.

I get it, but he didn't suddenly turn 30 and his contract situation was a known entity. I'm not necessarily sure he will get paid $50M+ given aforementioned reluctance. Is he really in the position to turn down $160M/4yrs?

For Pascal, if Indy doesn't max him, which I'm sure was part of the conversation when the trade happened, then the Sixers or Pistons will probably max him.

Exactly. Siakam going to get a max. only questions are who offers it and for how many years (4 or 5).

I'm really happy it won't be Toronto.

[Duffman100]

Lowe's reporting is that this was the return they would have gotten if they moved a year earlier. If folks are not satisfied with the return (I am one of those folks), they should have been advocating for Pascal to be re-signed (as I was during the whole season). The guy is criminally underrated and we could have moved his contract down the road for a similar haul if it came down to it.

I understand ripping the band aid off but I hate how little we were rewarded for it.

I was so all over the place. I wanted to keep OG but also saw the logic in trading him. I wanted to keep Pascal if the offer was terrible but understood dealing him too.

I'm really happy I don't make these decisions for a living.

Oh man, there is nothing else I'd rather do.

oh totally! in my late teens, early 20s, I was totally interested in a Scout -> GM career path. Sort of wish I had!

[anotherhomer]

I say this....sometimes there are windows to trading a player and if you miss it, you miss it

Lowe's reporting is that this was the return they would have gotten if they moved a year earlier. If folks are not satisfied with the return (I am one of those folks), they should have been advocating for Pascal to be re-signed (as I was during the whole season). The guy is criminally underrated and we could have moved his contract down the road for a similar haul if it came down to it.

I understand ripping the band aid off but I hate how little we were rewarded for it.

I was so all over the place. I wanted to keep OG but also saw the logic in trading him. I wanted to keep Pascal if the offer was terrible but understood dealing him too.

I'm really happy I don't make these decisions for a living.

the OG trade worked out welll because we got quickley, barret plus pick

but the Pascal trade was a bummer

there's no doubt, pascal should had been traded at the 2023 deadline

on the other hand, it does make sense to make sure Barnes has taken the leap before trading pascal

[mtcan]

I get it, but he didn't suddenly turn 30 and his contract situation was a known entity. I'm not necessarily sure he will get paid $50M+ given aforementioned reluctance. Is he really in the position to turn down $160M/4yrs?

For Pascal, if Indy doesn't max him, which I'm sure was part of the conversation when the trade happened, then the Sixers or Pistons will probably max him.

Exactly. Siakam going to get a max. only questions are who offers it and for how many years (4 or 5).

I'm really happy it won't be Toronto.

If we were a perennial contender, Pascal getting the max would be fine but not in the current state. I'm happy for him getting the max elsewhere and if it is Indy it would be deserved and we should all be happy for him getting his bag.

We should appreciate these guys for what they did as Raptors players because they were part of some of the franchisees best moments.

I sure hope the same Pascal haters aren't also the ones pining for Vince be honored by the franchise after he admitted to quitting on the team. Pascal always gave 100% and he deserves our respect.

[ArthurVandelay]

For Pascal, if Indy doesn't max him, which I'm sure was part of the conversation when the trade happened, then the Sixers or Pistons will probably max him.

Exactly. Siakam going to get a max. only questions are who offers it and for how many years (4 or 5).

I'm really happy it won't be Toronto.

If we were a perennial contender, Pascal getting the max would be fine but not in the current state. I'm happy for him getting the max elsewhere and if it is Indy it would be deserved and we should all be happy for him getting his bag.

We should appreciate these guys for what they did as Raptors players because they were part of some of the franchisees best moments.

I sure hope the same Pascal haters aren't also the ones pining for Vince be honored by the franchise after he admitted to quitting on the team. Pascal always gave 100% and he deserves our respect.

I didn't say I wasn't happy for him or appreciate what he did for the Raptors.

Few players spend an entire career with one organization. It was time for everyone to move on. Obviously easier said than done.

I'm glad it's not Toronto because the last 2 seasons have been tough to watch. I was one of the few who enjoyed the post-January games more than anything of the last 2 seasons. I'm high on hopium.

[mtcan]

Exactly. Siakam going to get a max. only questions are who offers it and for how many years (4 or 5).

I'm really happy it won't be Toronto.

If we were a perennial contender, Pascal getting the max would be fine but not in the current state. I'm happy for him getting the max elsewhere and if it is Indy it would be deserved and we should all be happy for him getting his bag.

We should appreciate these guys for what they did as Raptors players because they were part of some of the franchisees best moments.

I sure hope the same Pascal haters aren't also the ones pining for Vince be honored by the franchise after he admitted to quitting on the team. Pascal always gave 100% and he deserves our respect.

I didn't say I wasn't happy for him or appreciate what he did for the Raptors.

Few players spend an entire career with one organization. It was time for everyone to move on. Obviously easier said than done.

I'm glad it's not Toronto because the last 2 seasons have been tough to watch. I was one of the few who enjoyed the post-January games more than anything of the last 2 seasons. I'm high on hopium.

Hope is the only thing we got right now.

Let me watch the young core play and maybe win or lose but see improvement over time. I can keep watching based on that. But having to watch Jordan Nwora and Jalen McDaniels made me want to scratch my eyes out.

[brownbobcat]

If he only wanted 40, I'm not sure the Raps would've dealt him. His deal might start around 40, probably won't end there though.

I'm sure he wants more, but who's going to give it to him? Indy has never shown any desire to be a luxury tax team.

PHI, DET, UTA, SA etc all have the room to max him and it only takes 1 team to do so.

Nobody thought VV would get the offer he did. When there are limited good options available, guys like Siakam, OG become a lot more attractive.

True, but even then it was a 3yr offer so FVV had to give something up.

[OakleyDokely]

I'm sure he wants more, but who's going to give it to him? Indy has never shown any desire to be a luxury tax team.

PHI, DET, UTA, SA etc all have the room to max him and it only takes 1 team to do so.

Nobody thought VV would get the offer he did. When there are limited good options available, guys like Siakam, OG become a lot more attractive.

True, but even then it was a 3yr offer so FVV had to give something up.

I think Siakam gets a 4 year max.

That's what teams like PHI and DET can offer, and IND matches it. Only way I see him getting 5 is if he threatens to leave and IND has no choice.

[Tor_Raps]

So now we got people cheering against Siakam just to make themselves feel better about the trade?

Unless Masai pays your salary, shame on you considering the story Siakam has had with this franchise from nothing to a massive part of our championship.

Its tied together though - some feel we should have gotten way more for Pascal while others feel there was a limit to the interest for Pascal due to his limitations. The answer is always somewhere in between - Pascal can explode for some great games, but can also lay eggs in others. Is he the kind of player you want to throw max money for this off-season? This board always pulls one side to another, then back and forth we go.

Newsflash, 2nd options are inconsistent with great performances or else they'd be top 5 players in the nba. The same holds true for PG13, Towns, Brown, Murray, etc.

There are like 30+ max contracts in the nba, it doesn't mean all 30 of those players superstars obviously...

[Tor_Raps]

So now we got people cheering against Siakam just to make themselves feel better about the trade?

Unless Masai pays your salary, shame on you considering the story Siakam has had with this franchise from nothing to a massive part of our championship.

It's the same thing with the Poeltl trade. People have a hard time assessing players objectively vs what trade they were a part of.

The siakam story should be different considering where we drafted him, him being the 2nd option during our championship run, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to critize players for their performances but outrightly cheering when he has a bad game goes much deeper than that.

[Tor_Raps]

So now we got people cheering against Siakam just to make themselves feel better about the trade?

Unless Masai pays your salary, shame on you considering the story Siakam has had with this franchise from nothing to a massive part of our championship.

Let's be clear: the vocal contingent cheering against Siakam is also the vocal contingent that wants Masai fired. This group hasn't had a coherent argument in years.

Siakam is a meh player but should have got us a massive package.
Fred was awful and we'll be better without him - but also Masai missed out on getting anything for him and Houston got better because of him.
We should tank and lose but it's awful to watch us lose games by large margins.

etc
etc
etc

I've been very vocal with my dislike for Masai's moves after the championship run. There are many moves you can point to as to just not making sense and I'm not saying that with the benefit of hindsight.

Even after all that, I haven't wanted Masai fired unless we were getting something better than him and the list of those people is extremely small so good luck with that. The Siakam trade was almost my breaking point and I did yell "fire Masai" after the move was made. It was a pathetic return because of the position he put himself in.

With all that said, he finally has come to the realization what he has to do with this roster (about 1 year too late) but there aren't many other guys I'd prefer to oversee this phase. There isn't the unconditional belief that every move he makes will succeed like in years past so there's more of a careful eye here.

[Spates]

So now we got people cheering against Siakam just to make themselves feel better about the trade?

Unless Masai pays your salary, shame on you considering the story Siakam has had with this franchise from nothing to a massive part of our championship.

It's the same thing with the Poeltl trade. People have a hard time assessing players objectively vs what trade they were a part of.

The siakam story should be different considering where we drafted him, him being the 2nd option during our championship run, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to critize players for their performances but outrightly cheering when he has a bad game goes much deeper than that.

The Siakam story would be different if both he and the team consistently played well post-championship. He didn't and neither did the team. People cheering against him are fueled by a contingent of fans who treat him like a hall of famer. Pascal is on the Tobias Harris/Julius Randle level. Not deserving of all this attention. Good player, not terribly impactful on his own.

[Tor_Raps]

It's the same thing with the Poeltl trade. People have a hard time assessing players objectively vs what trade they were a part of.

The siakam story should be different considering where we drafted him, him being the 2nd option during our championship run, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to critize players for their performances but outrightly cheering when he has a bad game goes much deeper than that.

The Siakam story would be different if both he and the team consistently played well post-championship. He didn't and neither did the team. People cheering against him are fueled by a contingent of fans who treat him like a hall of famer. Pascal is on the Tobias Harris/Julius Randle level. Not deserving of all this attention. Good player, not terribly impactful on his own.

Damn, hilarious how you overlook winning a championship like it's nothing. For most diehards from day 1, it was EVERYTHING for a franchise that seemed like they'd never get there. Come talk to me when Harris and Randle are big parts of any championship.

And yes, Siakam is not a MVP calibre player, which for some reason is your criteria here. He should never be your teams best player but there are only a handful of those players in this league. That doesn't mean he isn't still a very good player in this league.

Like I said, there are 30+ max contracts in this league. Not all those players will do what you said. He's made a couple of all NBA teams and allstar teams so if you think he did nothing individually after the championship is just pure hatred. Go get that checked out lol.

[ArthurVandelay]

If we were a perennial contender, Pascal getting the max would be fine but not in the current state. I'm happy for him getting the max elsewhere and if it is Indy it would be deserved and we should all be happy for him getting his bag.

We should appreciate these guys for what they did as Raptors players because they were part of some of the franchisees best moments.

I sure hope the same Pascal haters aren't also the ones pining for Vince be honored by the franchise after he admitted to quitting on the team. Pascal always gave 100% and he deserves our respect.

I didn't say I wasn't happy for him or appreciate what he did for the Raptors.

Few players spend an entire career with one organization. It was time for everyone to move on. Obviously easier said than done.

I'm glad it's not Toronto because the last 2 seasons have been tough to watch. I was one of the few who enjoyed the post-January games more than anything of the last 2 seasons. I'm high on hopium.

Hope is the only thing we got right now.

Let me watch the young core play and maybe win or lose but see improvement over time. I can keep watching based on that. But having to watch Jordan Nwora and Jalen McDaniels made me want to scratch my eyes out.

Yeah I wasn’t watching for them lol

After Poeltl and Scottie went down and with IQ and RJ family matters, it was the Dick Show for me.

[Duffman100]

It's the same thing with the Poeltl trade. People have a hard time assessing players objectively vs what trade they were a part of.

The siakam story should be different considering where we drafted him, him being the 2nd option during our championship run, etc.

I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to critize players for their performances but outrightly cheering when he has a bad game goes much deeper than that.

The Siakam story would be different if both he and the team consistently played well post-championship. He didn't and neither did the team. People cheering against him are fueled by a contingent of fans who treat him like a hall of famer. Pascal is on the Tobias Harris/Julius Randle level. Not deserving of all this attention. Good player, not terribly impactful on his own.

Nobody treats him like he's a hall of famer.

[Tha Cynic]

So now we got people cheering against Siakam just to make themselves feel better about the trade?

Unless Masai pays your salary, shame on you considering the story Siakam has had with this franchise from nothing to a massive part of our championship.

Absolutely...the agendas here on display are ridiculous.

Dude is a 2-time all-star and 2-time all-NBA. He made the game-winning basket to win us the championship and had some monster games throughout the playoff run. He deserves more respect from this fanbase. The hate that he is receiving around here now is shameful.

I didn't want him getting the max while in Toronto in the state that this team is in but doesn't mean he doesn't deserve it in the right situation.

I'm cheering against Indiana because I think they were gifted a great player for spare parts after clearly having Haliburton talk to Siakam about going there. If you're a Raptors fan you should be pissed that Indiana didn't even give secondary young players. It has nothing to do with Siakam. This kind of reminds me of the Kawhi situation. I hope they fail.

[Tha Cynic]

Masai got fleeced. Oh well.

Happens when you hold onto an asset too long

Meh. People will take him seriously because he’s willing to wait.

However, yes - had he traded pascal earlier he may have gotten something better or at least different. The rationale for sticking with him and trying to see if he and Scottie could coexist makes sense, and if nothing else, patience is a competitive advantage if used correctly.

Can you remind me what rumoured player/picks/trade package is the one you are focusing on that’s better than what the Raps got for Pascal?

I'm sure the Mavs will get way more for Doncic if they trade him today instead of waiting till he's about to expire and he tells a bunch of teams he won't re-sign there. And that's a top 3 player in the NBA today. With Siakam, no one was taking that chance.

The Raptors did originally want to keep Siakam to see if they could pair him with OG and Barnes.

[Tha Cynic]

There was talk of OG getting a Donovan Mitchell like return last season so yeah we could have gotten more for him if we traded him earlier but that doesn’t mean we didn’t get a good return for him despite the circumstances.

Lol, there was talk? There's talk of a whole lot of things apparently.

Again laugh all you want but OG’s value was much higher around the league last season when he has a year and half left on his contract and wasn’t on a sub .500 team and playing inconsistently. Pretty common sense man.

The only thing that changed between the time of the quote below and when OG got traded was that he was going into the last year of his contract and he looked uninspired out on the court. Unless all of a sudden Zach Lowe isn’t a reliable NBA reporter because it goes against the narrative that Masai is infallible in every decision he makes.

"The entire league wants O.G. Anunoby," Zach Lowe said on his podcast. "Everybody wants O.G. Anunoby. If he ever gets traded, the price and picks are going to surprise people because it might be on par almost with what the Cavs gave up for Donovan Mitchell. It's going to be a lot if it ever happens.

https://www.si.com/nba/raptors/news/toronto-raptors-could-receive-donovan-mitchell-type-package-for-og-anunoby

You think the Raptors were going to get more than Quickley, RJ Barrett and 2024 second round pick?

What more do you think would have been added to that?

OG was never getting a Donovan Mitchell return, that's ridiculous. I think the headline, unconfirmed, was "Raptors pursuing Donovan Mitchell-esque return" which was then promptly mocked and questioned by all.

I love OG but that was never going to happen.

I posted the quote verbatim. This was from a reliable NBA reporter Zach Lowe.

The Raptors were looking for that. Doesn't mean anyone was offering that. Wouldn't he have been traded if they did get that?

[JB7]

PHI, DET, UTA, SA etc all have the room to max him and it only takes 1 team to do so.

Nobody thought VV would get the offer he did. When there are limited good options available, guys like Siakam, OG become a lot more attractive.

True, but even then it was a 3yr offer so FVV had to give something up.

I think Siakam gets a 4 year max.

That's what teams like PHI and DET can offer, and IND matches it. Only way I see him getting 5 is if he threatens to leave and IND has no choice.

I would think the 5 year max was probably part of the discussions when the trade happened - reason why Pascal was trying to direct himself to a particular team that would be willing to pay the 5 year max.

If Indy doesn't offer it, he probably walks to Sixers or Pistons for the 4 year max, just on principle alone.