PG: 2nd longest losing streak in Raptors Hx

[Scase]

I'd put it at year 3 (with the tank as the reset year). Either way, that's what I'm saying wait until like year 6 to see the improvement. If we're on an upswing in the next 2 years, then cool. If not, yeah I'm on board with looking at alternatives in FO.

The problem is reactionary moves on FOs rarely pay off. When you actually look at it season over season, not a ton of time has passed. Even though it's felt like it has.

I cant budge from it being year 4, Tampa should have been the sign to start the rebuild and they missed out on it. Poor evaluation or bad timing still counts.

I'm not saying to replace the FO as a knee jerk reaction, personally if we were to do that I think it would have had to be last year before they traded everyone away. As of now, my opinion on moving on from them is in a holding pattern pending what they do this off season. Double down and make moves to be a play in team next year, I think they should be replaced, keep going for an actual rebuild, I will give them a couple more years.

If we draft top 6, 17, 31 and do win-now moves. Make the play-in and the playoffs with a young core, you'd still want them replaced?

Because that is a possibility for next season

I would. You don't make win now moves when you just had a 60 loss season, and your roster is primarily rookies. That makes absolutely no sense. The likelihood of a 17/31st (I left out 6th pick since we still havve no clue if we will keep it) pick in a good draft turning into a solid player is low, add in that it is seen as a pretty horrible draft, then you have a high probability of forcing a play in appearance and end up with a bunch of useless/low value draft picks and the same situation we were at a couple years ago. A starting 5 that can win, but we lose due to no bench. I am not enthralled with the idea of returning to the treadmill.

Teams seldom get chances to rebuild, we should not throw away this opportunity to build around Barnes. I like IQ, and RJ is growing on me, but I would jettison both of them in the blink of an eye for some high level talent to grow alongside Scottie. He is far and beyond the most talented and highest ceiling player on the team. Making the play in and/or being a perpetual first round exit is not the end goal here.

Short term pain, long term gain.

[Saul Goodman]

The only time i turned on this management group was the deadline 2023. Going into the season you couldn’t fault them for thinking they could be a playoff team, but not pivoting was a disaster.

All they really had to do was not trade for Poetl and send VanVleet out for a 1st and contract you’d have had a chance at Brandon miller


OG and Pascal trades at the deadline would have been unrealistic but you could have gotten hauls for both. Picks for pascal and Kuminga Moody picks for OG

[WaltFrazier]

Seeing Jack on Raptors Tonight show. He doubled down on something I heard him say in game last night. Thinks RJ can be the team leader next year, rock solid player, hometown guy etc. Regardless of what the marketing people say, Jack added. Leo kind of agreed.

Can't help but see it as at least a slight knock on Scottie who's already been anointed as leader.

[Harcore Fenton Mun]

I had felt that we should hit the reset button right after we lost Kawhi. However this fan base just doesn’t like losing, it shows on this board. Most people won’t tolerate a OKC or Ainge style of rebuilding. So it lead us to the situation where we have now.

It's easy to say that, but what does that look like. Gasol and Ibaka aren't getting us anything. Lowry maybe gets us some assets? And then you're selling off FVV, Siakam, OG right after a finals run?

If Bubble doesn't happen and Siakam <5 feet % doesn't tank by 15%, we're in the finals again.

To add to this, the year after Kawhi left was a year for the remaining players and management to prove the championship team was more than just Kawhi. There was no way they were stripping everything down in the year following the championship if only for this reason.

Masai's plan was to let Lowry, Gasol and Ibaka expire to pursue Giannis, if he hit FA. He didn't, because the Bucks managed to break through and win a chip, so Masai had to pivot.

Seat sales! We had a full house, why kill the golden goose. It's funny, seat sales dropped this year and we're full speed ahead.

We definitely should have cleared the cap and reset after Kawhi bolted, but we took the easy money.

[manjusaka]

Seeing Jack on Raptors Tonight show. He doubled down on something I heard him say in game last night. Thinks RJ can be the team leader next year, rock solid player, hometown guy etc. Regardless of what the marketing people say, Jack added. Leo kind of agreed.

Can't help but see it as at least a slight knock on Scottie who's already been anointed as leader.

Why not, his consistency and resilience on the court is apparent. I would like those two qualities become part of the team culture.

[JB7]

I cant budge from it being year 4, Tampa should have been the sign to start the rebuild and they missed out on it. Poor evaluation or bad timing still counts.

I'm not saying to replace the FO as a knee jerk reaction, personally if we were to do that I think it would have had to be last year before they traded everyone away. As of now, my opinion on moving on from them is in a holding pattern pending what they do this off season. Double down and make moves to be a play in team next year, I think they should be replaced, keep going for an actual rebuild, I will give them a couple more years.

If we draft top 6, 17, 31 and do win-now moves. Make the play-in and the playoffs with a young core, you'd still want them replaced?

Because that is a possibility for next season

I would. You don't make win now moves when you just had a 60 loss season, and your roster is primarily rookies. That makes absolutely no sense. The likelihood of a 17/31st (I left out 6th pick since we still havve no clue if we will keep it) pick in a good draft turning into a solid player is low, add in that it is seen as a pretty horrible draft, then you have a high probability of forcing a play in appearance and end up with a bunch of useless/low value draft picks and the same situation we were at a couple years ago. A starting 5 that can win, but we lose due to no bench. I am not enthralled with the idea of returning to the treadmill.

Teams seldom get chances to rebuild, we should not throw away this opportunity to build around Barnes. I like IQ, and RJ is growing on me, but I would jettison both of them in the blink of an eye for some high level talent to grow alongside Scottie. He is far and beyond the most talented and highest ceiling player on the team. Making the play in and/or being a perpetual first round exit is not the end goal here.

Short term pain, long term gain.

To build around Barnes (22) you would jettison IQ (24) and RJ (23) to get what, the hope that picks in the next three years (players that are 18, 17, 16, and possibly 15 right now) that might be star level, but who knows?

That just sounds like long-term pain. Barnes is definitely demanding to be traded after signing his extension.

[720]

Seeing Jack on Raptors Tonight show. He doubled down on something I heard him say in game last night. Thinks RJ can be the team leader next year, rock solid player, hometown guy etc. Regardless of what the marketing people say, Jack added. Leo kind of agreed.

Can't help but see it as at least a slight knock on Scottie who's already been anointed as leader.

There’s a reason why when Jack left Niagara as a coach all of a sudden they started winning games.

Any franchise where RJ Barrett is the leader isn’t going to achieve much.

[Scase]

If we draft top 6, 17, 31 and do win-now moves. Make the play-in and the playoffs with a young core, you'd still want them replaced?

Because that is a possibility for next season

I would. You don't make win now moves when you just had a 60 loss season, and your roster is primarily rookies. That makes absolutely no sense. The likelihood of a 17/31st (I left out 6th pick since we still havve no clue if we will keep it) pick in a good draft turning into a solid player is low, add in that it is seen as a pretty horrible draft, then you have a high probability of forcing a play in appearance and end up with a bunch of useless/low value draft picks and the same situation we were at a couple years ago. A starting 5 that can win, but we lose due to no bench. I am not enthralled with the idea of returning to the treadmill.

Teams seldom get chances to rebuild, we should not throw away this opportunity to build around Barnes. I like IQ, and RJ is growing on me, but I would jettison both of them in the blink of an eye for some high level talent to grow alongside Scottie. He is far and beyond the most talented and highest ceiling player on the team. Making the play in and/or being a perpetual first round exit is not the end goal here.

Short term pain, long term gain.

To build around Barnes (22) you would jettison IQ (24) and RJ (23) to get what, the hope that picks in the next three years (players that are 18, 17, 16, and possibly 15 right now) that might be star level, but who knows?

That just sounds like long-term pain. Barnes is definitely demanding to be traded after signing his extension.

I said high level talent as in a player, not a pick. If OKC was giving us Chet for them, you say no? I don't think RJ has much of a ceiling beyond his current performance, his game is extremely limited. He looks good now cause he's shooting 42.5% from 3 since he joined, that is not going to keep up. Otherwise he's got no mid range game to speak of, and outside this obviously unsustainable 3 point hot streak, he plays bully ball which is pretty easy to shut down, and becomes less effective in the playoffs with a looser whistle. RJ isn't bad, but I don't see him as a long term solution for the team.

IQ I can definitely see longer term, but I'm not married to the idea of keeping him either. If we find ourselves in another Kawhi type situation, I'm not thinking twice about moving them.

Their ages are not why I would be moving them, they are 4th and 5th year players, expecting some massive change to their games is not being realistic.

[CazOnReal]

Yak could be traded depending on what happens this summer. Edey could feasibly be a decent replacement.

My issue is that we went how long without a legit center? And now we're going down that road again?

I suppose if we decide to fully tank next year, I guess.

My assumption is any trade for Jakob Poeltl would be either after we draft 1-2 bigs in this draft (Take your pick of Ware, Missi, etc.) with one of our picks or i it'd be a trade with the Grizzlies for their pick this year (let's say they draft Clingan 7-9).

That or after we tamper to get Nic Claxton, but I digress.

[WaltFrazier]

Seeing Jack on Raptors Tonight show. He doubled down on something I heard him say in game last night. Thinks RJ can be the team leader next year, rock solid player, hometown guy etc. Regardless of what the marketing people say, Jack added. Leo kind of agreed.

Can't help but see it as at least a slight knock on Scottie who's already been anointed as leader.

There’s a reason why when Jack left Niagara as a coach all of a sudden they started winning games.

Any franchise where RJ Barrett is the leader isn’t going to achieve much.

I was more wondering if Jack is questioning the official team party line of anointing Scottie as leader, rather than let leadership develop organically.

[CazOnReal]

Seeing Jack on Raptors Tonight show. He doubled down on something I heard him say in game last night. Thinks RJ can be the team leader next year, rock solid player, hometown guy etc. Regardless of what the marketing people say, Jack added. Leo kind of agreed.

Can't help but see it as at least a slight knock on Scottie who's already been anointed as leader.

There’s a reason why when Jack left Niagara as a coach all of a sudden they started winning games.

Any franchise where RJ Barrett is the leader isn’t going to achieve much.

FWIW I think there's a difference between "RJ is the team's leader" and "RJ is the best player". I can see RJ being the team's heart and them being competitive while simultaneously being, like, the 2nd-4th best player on the team.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

The only time i turned on this management group was the deadline 2023. Going into the season you couldn’t fault them for thinking they could be a playoff team, but not pivoting was a disaster.

All they really had to do was not trade for Poetl and send VanVleet out for a 1st and contract you’d have had a chance at Brandon miller


OG and Pascal trades at the deadline would have been unrealistic but you could have gotten hauls for both. Picks for pascal and Kuminga Moody picks for OG

Meh. We couldn’t have caught up to the true tankers. At best we would’ve caught up to the blazers and ended up with scoot.

[JB7]

I would. You don't make win now moves when you just had a 60 loss season, and your roster is primarily rookies. That makes absolutely no sense. The likelihood of a 17/31st (I left out 6th pick since we still havve no clue if we will keep it) pick in a good draft turning into a solid player is low, add in that it is seen as a pretty horrible draft, then you have a high probability of forcing a play in appearance and end up with a bunch of useless/low value draft picks and the same situation we were at a couple years ago. A starting 5 that can win, but we lose due to no bench. I am not enthralled with the idea of returning to the treadmill.

Teams seldom get chances to rebuild, we should not throw away this opportunity to build around Barnes. I like IQ, and RJ is growing on me, but I would jettison both of them in the blink of an eye for some high level talent to grow alongside Scottie. He is far and beyond the most talented and highest ceiling player on the team. Making the play in and/or being a perpetual first round exit is not the end goal here.

Short term pain, long term gain.

To build around Barnes (22) you would jettison IQ (24) and RJ (23) to get what, the hope that picks in the next three years (players that are 18, 17, 16, and possibly 15 right now) that might be star level, but who knows?

That just sounds like long-term pain. Barnes is definitely demanding to be traded after signing his extension.

I said high level talent as in a player, not a pick. If OKC was giving us Chet for them, you say no? I don't think RJ has much of a ceiling beyond his current performance, his game is extremely limited. He looks good now cause he's shooting 42.5% from 3 since he joined, that is not going to keep up. Otherwise he's got no mid range game to speak of, and outside this obviously unsustainable 3 point hot streak, he plays bully ball which is pretty easy to shut down, and becomes less effective in the playoffs with a looser whistle. RJ isn't bad, but I don't see him as a long term solution for the team.

IQ I can definitely see longer term, but I'm not married to the idea of keeping him either. If we find ourselves in another Kawhi type situation, I'm not thinking twice about moving them.

Their ages are not why I would be moving them, they are 4th and 5th year players, expecting some massive change to their games is not being realistic.

Better yet, why don’t we just ask for SGA

Unrealistic options in terms of players being offered. I get it.

IQ and RJ are a nice fit beside Scottie, and they are the best the team will get. Any improvement will be through their development, and most importantly through Scottie’s development.

[Scase]

To build around Barnes (22) you would jettison IQ (24) and RJ (23) to get what, the hope that picks in the next three years (players that are 18, 17, 16, and possibly 15 right now) that might be star level, but who knows?

That just sounds like long-term pain. Barnes is definitely demanding to be traded after signing his extension.

I said high level talent as in a player, not a pick. If OKC was giving us Chet for them, you say no? I don't think RJ has much of a ceiling beyond his current performance, his game is extremely limited. He looks good now cause he's shooting 42.5% from 3 since he joined, that is not going to keep up. Otherwise he's got no mid range game to speak of, and outside this obviously unsustainable 3 point hot streak, he plays bully ball which is pretty easy to shut down, and becomes less effective in the playoffs with a looser whistle. RJ isn't bad, but I don't see him as a long term solution for the team.

IQ I can definitely see longer term, but I'm not married to the idea of keeping him either. If we find ourselves in another Kawhi type situation, I'm not thinking twice about moving them.

Their ages are not why I would be moving them, they are 4th and 5th year players, expecting some massive change to their games is not being realistic.

Better yet, why don’t we just ask for SGA

Unrealistic options in terms of players being offered. I get it.

IQ and RJ are a nice fit beside Scottie, and they are the best the team will get. Any improvement will be through their development, and most importantly through Scottie’s development.

Lol I wasn't using it as a realistic example, but just saying. The above is kinda my point though, I'm not seeing a ton more room for development.

I'm not saying it's a bad group, I'm just not seeing the high end potential.

[JB7]

I said high level talent as in a player, not a pick. If OKC was giving us Chet for them, you say no? I don't think RJ has much of a ceiling beyond his current performance, his game is extremely limited. He looks good now cause he's shooting 42.5% from 3 since he joined, that is not going to keep up. Otherwise he's got no mid range game to speak of, and outside this obviously unsustainable 3 point hot streak, he plays bully ball which is pretty easy to shut down, and becomes less effective in the playoffs with a looser whistle. RJ isn't bad, but I don't see him as a long term solution for the team.

IQ I can definitely see longer term, but I'm not married to the idea of keeping him either. If we find ourselves in another Kawhi type situation, I'm not thinking twice about moving them.

Their ages are not why I would be moving them, they are 4th and 5th year players, expecting some massive change to their games is not being realistic.

Better yet, why don’t we just ask for SGA

Unrealistic options in terms of players being offered. I get it.

IQ and RJ are a nice fit beside Scottie, and they are the best the team will get. Any improvement will be through their development, and most importantly through Scottie’s development.

Lol I wasn't using it as a realistic example, but just saying. The above is kinda my point though, I'm not seeing a ton more room for development.

I'm not saying it's a bad group, I'm just not seeing the high end potential.

The thing is, in the East you never know. It could be enough for a playoff run in a few years.

[mowcrowbar]

and yet we're still the 12th seed. The east **** sucks man

[Scase]

Better yet, why don’t we just ask for SGA

Unrealistic options in terms of players being offered. I get it.

IQ and RJ are a nice fit beside Scottie, and they are the best the team will get. Any improvement will be through their development, and most importantly through Scottie’s development.

Lol I wasn't using it as a realistic example, but just saying. The above is kinda my point though, I'm not seeing a ton more room for development.

I'm not saying it's a bad group, I'm just not seeing the high end potential.

The thing is, in the East you never know. It could be enough for a playoff run in a few years.

Ok, but how is that a good thing? You still get stomped in the finals with zero chance of winning. I have no interest in being the AI led 76ers, a team should be built to win a chip, not a conference banner. The idea isn't to be the best of the worst

[Pointgod]

Good loss. Memphis and Portland both won. They might fluke into more wins and its entirely possible we get the 5th place in the lottery which gives us a really good chance of keeping our pick.