2024 Playoffs Discussion Thread

[mrdressup]

Nicks are not that far from being contenders. Laugh if you will, but we are the doormats now and it's not changing anytime soo. Top guard. Good center rotation. Solid defenders. Great utility players. They are well set for a run. Some top FAs are going to be wanting to get a piece of that.

[AkelaLoneWolf]

Nicks are not that far from being contenders. Laugh if you will, but we are the doormats now and it's not changing anytime soo. Top guard. Good center rotation. Solid defenders. Great utility players. They are well set for a run. Some top FAs are going to be wanting to get a piece of that.

They Still need a big move. Maybe Randall gets traded in the off-season.

[Fairview4Life]

And according to Masai they didn't find any good packages for FVV, yet according to multiple other FO sources, they were never serious with their intent to trade him. So I see no reason to assume it wasn't the same deal with Siakam.

Ultimately, no one got moved until multiple months into the season, and the chips only seem to have fallen once it was extremely apparent this core was going nowhere.

Which other FO sources said the Raptors weren't serious about moving FVV last season? All of the reporting at the time was that the Raps were being offered packages like Grayson Allen and the Bucks 2029 pick. The Clippers weren't willing to give up Mann (which...that seems to be their kink, to be fair). The idea that the Raps weren't serious about moving him doesn't really make any sense. They were shopping him, they were offered trash and decided to roll the dice on Poeltl and keep him at a lower price. And then Udoka gets hired, Houston max's him out for a couple years and off he goes for nothing. Although I still think the wind was blowing in that direction anyway after they lost to a screaming child. I also don't know why you'd assume they weren't serious about being willing to trade Siakam last summer either. It was so serious that the team damaged their relationship with him. Again, though, the reporting ended up being that the Hawks didn't want to include like Kobe **** Bufkin along with Griffen or whoever in the deal. If you have to accept a **** offer in order to be serious about moving someone, I guess they weren't serious. But that's not really how I think about trade discussions.

They were naturally anonymous FO sources, it was a year ago, trying to find an article with a few lines is tricky. Take it or leave it, but it was reported on at the time.

The reason I don't trust that they were serious about Siakam, is because the same thing played out as Fred, they just jumped on it earlier and got a bad return, instead of him walking. The FO is notoriously wishy washy, and while no one reasonably expects them to be transparent, they are constantly throwing out headlines that are just marketing BS. Play in for what, the market is better in the summer, the same trades will be there in the off season, trades are the new FA, and so on. All to have things either be contradictory (play in), or fall flat on their face (FVV walking). So there is really zero reason to trust anything they say, multiple FO contacts months after the guy is off the team, have nothing to gain by saying he was never serious about trading him. But our FO has to convince the fans that they did everything they could etc.

And the hilarity of implying that Allen and a 2029 SRP is a bad return is a nice touch. The same Allen who has shot 40% from 3 for 5 years in a row, with this year topping out at 46%. Yeah, why would the worst 3p team in the NBA want that?

Don't accept bad offers? Like the Hawks who didn't want to give up prospects for a player who leaked that he wouldn't sign for another team? The same player who held ALL the leverage because they held him until he was a UFA?

They gambled, and lost FVV for nothing, serious talks or not, that's 100% on them. Siakam was able to dictate where he went because we gave him all the leverage, that's 100% on them.

No excuses. The championship goodwill is gone.

Sorry, I have a very hard time buying that one of the people who complains about the Siakam trade return would have called Grayson Allen and a Bucks pick more than 5 years away (at the time) a good return for Fred. In hindsight, maybe it's fine with Allen shooting very well this season and maybe he could have been flipped, and more importantly anything at all for Fred would have been better than nothing. But at the time that was a trash return and gambling on being able to resign him and move him later for a better return wasn't a bad gamble. The risk was low, until it wasn't. But even then losing out on Grayson Allen and a 2029 pick is hardly something to be worried about. "Multiple FO contacts" months after the deal that I will have to trust you about? I mean, even if I bought that, it's not like we haven't seen Daryl Morey or Danny Ainge pull this exact same bull multiple times with their friendly press mouthpieces. Who cares? It just more feels like you are telling yourself a story about what happened and that tale keeps growing with the telling. I am honestly not really sure what you're talking about with the multiple FO sources months after the deal...Siakam? Fred? If it's Pascal, you're saying the Raps have to convince the fans they tried to do everything in their power to move him in the summer? How does that make any sense? Why would they give a ****? We spent a whole month and a half in the summer with Pascal rumours coming up every day. Deals that you actually seem to agree that he scuttled by saying he wouldn't sign an extension...and you don't think that indicates they were seriously looking to move him? What?

[Wise80]

so we had the 2nd best player on the Knicks and the best player on the Pacers currently both in the semi-Finals of the Eastern Conference Finals..with a Young All-Star....and could no NADA with that...with Darko

Relax with the hyperbole, Siakam had 2 good games in a 6 game series. Our roster fit was bad, and neither of those 2 players were trying this season, anyone with eyes could see it. But keep on blaming the coach and never the FO.

It’s the best part of this, we don’t have to play hypotheticals, or play regrets. We actually got a large sample size of that core and the end result was that they were a bonafide first round exit team lol.

Did Pascal and Fred still wear there own gear since there new teams?

It was time to move on. But I got the impression that they thought they were bigger than they were. A little to comfortable.

[Potential]

The Cavs are just a poor mans 2016 Raptors

[SFour]

Nicks are not that far from being contenders. Laugh if you will, but we are the doormats now and it's not changing anytime soo. Top guard. Good center rotation. Solid defenders. Great utility players. They are well set for a run. Some top FAs are going to be wanting to get a piece of that.

agree they are a move or two away....but you can also say that for the Sixers and a bunch of other teams....both teams will be gunning to sign PG.

[Brinbe]

Read on Twitter

ty lue prepping for that laker job

[Scase]

Which other FO sources said the Raptors weren't serious about moving FVV last season? All of the reporting at the time was that the Raps were being offered packages like Grayson Allen and the Bucks 2029 pick. The Clippers weren't willing to give up Mann (which...that seems to be their kink, to be fair). The idea that the Raps weren't serious about moving him doesn't really make any sense. They were shopping him, they were offered trash and decided to roll the dice on Poeltl and keep him at a lower price. And then Udoka gets hired, Houston max's him out for a couple years and off he goes for nothing. Although I still think the wind was blowing in that direction anyway after they lost to a screaming child. I also don't know why you'd assume they weren't serious about being willing to trade Siakam last summer either. It was so serious that the team damaged their relationship with him. Again, though, the reporting ended up being that the Hawks didn't want to include like Kobe **** Bufkin along with Griffen or whoever in the deal. If you have to accept a **** offer in order to be serious about moving someone, I guess they weren't serious. But that's not really how I think about trade discussions.

They were naturally anonymous FO sources, it was a year ago, trying to find an article with a few lines is tricky. Take it or leave it, but it was reported on at the time.

The reason I don't trust that they were serious about Siakam, is because the same thing played out as Fred, they just jumped on it earlier and got a bad return, instead of him walking. The FO is notoriously wishy washy, and while no one reasonably expects them to be transparent, they are constantly throwing out headlines that are just marketing BS. Play in for what, the market is better in the summer, the same trades will be there in the off season, trades are the new FA, and so on. All to have things either be contradictory (play in), or fall flat on their face (FVV walking). So there is really zero reason to trust anything they say, multiple FO contacts months after the guy is off the team, have nothing to gain by saying he was never serious about trading him. But our FO has to convince the fans that they did everything they could etc.

And the hilarity of implying that Allen and a 2029 SRP is a bad return is a nice touch. The same Allen who has shot 40% from 3 for 5 years in a row, with this year topping out at 46%. Yeah, why would the worst 3p team in the NBA want that?

Don't accept bad offers? Like the Hawks who didn't want to give up prospects for a player who leaked that he wouldn't sign for another team? The same player who held ALL the leverage because they held him until he was a UFA?

They gambled, and lost FVV for nothing, serious talks or not, that's 100% on them. Siakam was able to dictate where he went because we gave him all the leverage, that's 100% on them.

No excuses. The championship goodwill is gone.

If the team is trying to tank though for a top pick, the goal is obvious to be one of the worst 4 teams in the league. But even with moving Yak, I still don't think they could touch Wiz, Pistons and Blazers, plus who knows who else throws their hand into tanking (like if the Suns traded both Booker and KD). These next two drafts (2025 & 2026) are at least going to be decent, so there will be teams doing crazy **** to tank. I don't know that a team with BBQ could lose that badly.

Blazers barring any injuries, will have a better record next year than this year. Pistons cannot afford to keep being bad, so I expect a big off season for them. And that leaves the wiz. Not a whole lot of competition at the bottom. The Suns have zero incentive to tank, they don't own any of their picks.

BBQ absolutely could be bad enough, as I said, remove Jak from the equation and replace him with a rookie or a Len quality centre and watch us fall to the bottom. We have no consistent and diverse scoring threats and our defence is awful, removing Jak makes it even worse. This team has zero depth, without Jak you have essentially 5 NBA quality players in BBQ, Gradey, and old man Olynyk. Trade or dont pick up BBs final year, S&T or let GTJ walk, pick up some bad contracts for picks/prospects, and tada you are a basement dweller.

The Blazers might be better as a team, but won't have a better record, and could even be worse, in a stacked West. Also, I would not be surprised for another West team to fall like Memphis did this year because of an injury or trade - West is too loaded.

Pistons wanted to be better this year and still sucked. Signing Tobias is not changing that outcome. And there easily could be other teams that fall off (Bulls, Hawks, Nets, Hornets again) in the East, depending on what moves they make (or do not make) this summer.

Trading away such a valuable asset in Yak, to try and suck to acquire draft picks for players that might be good years down the line, does not do a lot to endear your current players (BBQ) to the team. It is just setting the franchise up to be a perennial loser like the Wiz, and Pistons have been.

Jak is far from what I would call "such a valuable" asset. Like yeah, he's got value but lets not get carried away here, he's a mid tier center. The blazers will almost certainly end up with more than 21 wins, they were intentionally sitting players late in the season AND traded away dame.

Which other FO sources said the Raptors weren't serious about moving FVV last season? All of the reporting at the time was that the Raps were being offered packages like Grayson Allen and the Bucks 2029 pick. The Clippers weren't willing to give up Mann (which...that seems to be their kink, to be fair). The idea that the Raps weren't serious about moving him doesn't really make any sense. They were shopping him, they were offered trash and decided to roll the dice on Poeltl and keep him at a lower price. And then Udoka gets hired, Houston max's him out for a couple years and off he goes for nothing. Although I still think the wind was blowing in that direction anyway after they lost to a screaming child. I also don't know why you'd assume they weren't serious about being willing to trade Siakam last summer either. It was so serious that the team damaged their relationship with him. Again, though, the reporting ended up being that the Hawks didn't want to include like Kobe **** Bufkin along with Griffen or whoever in the deal. If you have to accept a **** offer in order to be serious about moving someone, I guess they weren't serious. But that's not really how I think about trade discussions.

They were naturally anonymous FO sources, it was a year ago, trying to find an article with a few lines is tricky. Take it or leave it, but it was reported on at the time.

The reason I don't trust that they were serious about Siakam, is because the same thing played out as Fred, they just jumped on it earlier and got a bad return, instead of him walking. The FO is notoriously wishy washy, and while no one reasonably expects them to be transparent, they are constantly throwing out headlines that are just marketing BS. Play in for what, the market is better in the summer, the same trades will be there in the off season, trades are the new FA, and so on. All to have things either be contradictory (play in), or fall flat on their face (FVV walking). So there is really zero reason to trust anything they say, multiple FO contacts months after the guy is off the team, have nothing to gain by saying he was never serious about trading him. But our FO has to convince the fans that they did everything they could etc.

And the hilarity of implying that Allen and a 2029 SRP is a bad return is a nice touch. The same Allen who has shot 40% from 3 for 5 years in a row, with this year topping out at 46%. Yeah, why would the worst 3p team in the NBA want that?

Don't accept bad offers? Like the Hawks who didn't want to give up prospects for a player who leaked that he wouldn't sign for another team? The same player who held ALL the leverage because they held him until he was a UFA?

They gambled, and lost FVV for nothing, serious talks or not, that's 100% on them. Siakam was able to dictate where he went because we gave him all the leverage, that's 100% on them.

No excuses. The championship goodwill is gone.

Sorry, I have a very hard time buying that one of the people who complains about the Siakam trade return would have called Grayson Allen and a Bucks pick more than 5 years away (at the time) a good return for Fred. In hindsight, maybe it's fine with Allen shooting very well this season and maybe he could have been flipped, and more importantly anything at all for Fred would have been better than nothing. But at the time that was a trash return and gambling on being able to resign him and move him later for a better return wasn't a bad gamble. The risk was low, until it wasn't. But even then losing out on Grayson Allen and a 2029 pick is hardly something to be worried about. "Multiple FO contacts" months after the deal that I will have to trust you about? I mean, even if I bought that, it's not like we haven't seen Daryl Morey or Danny Ainge pull this exact same bull multiple times with their friendly press mouthpieces. Who cares? It just more feels like you are telling yourself a story about what happened and that tale keeps growing with the telling. I am honestly not really sure what you're talking about with the multiple FO sources months after the deal...Siakam? Fred? If it's Pascal, you're saying the Raps have to convince the fans they tried to do everything in their power to move him in the summer? How does that make any sense? Why would they give a ****? We spent a whole month and a half in the summer with Pascal rumours coming up every day. Deals that you actually seem to agree that he scuttled by saying he wouldn't sign an extension...and you don't think that indicates they were seriously looking to move him? What?

I couldn't care less what you think lol. If you can manage to dig through reddits garbage search history, you'd find how absurdly wrong you are. I have wanted Fred gone for years, I didnt want him re-signed at 30/yr or on the team at all.

As I said earlier about the FO :

And according to Masai they didn't find any good packages for FVV, yet according to multiple other FO sources, they were never serious with their intent to trade him. So I see no reason to assume it wasn't the same deal with Siakam.

Not Siakam.

[HumbleRen]

Incredible game. Love the fight that the Magic have.

[GP2]

Cole Anthony with some ridiculously athletic plays. Also, how good is Banchero? I can never get a read on him. Is he in the Carmelo mould?

[Fairview4Life]

I couldn't care less what you think lol. If you can manage to dig through reddits garbage search history, you'd find how absurdly wrong you are. I have wanted Fred gone for years, I didnt want him re-signed at 30/yr or on the team at all.

As I said earlier about the FO :

And according to Masai they didn't find any good packages for FVV, yet according to multiple other FO sources, they were never serious with their intent to trade him. So I see no reason to assume it wasn't the same deal with Siakam.

Not Siakam.

You can be a rude as you want, it doesn't change anything. Just to be clear, supposedly some anonymous FO personnel from some other team said that the Raps were not serious about trading FVV at the deadline in 2023, but there is no evidence of that because reddit has bad a bad search tool. Let's say you are actually remembering correctly and all of the articles by people like Marc Stein etc from this season saying Fred wasn't dealt last year because the Raps didn't like the offers of Luke Kennard and a pick years from now are wrong. Fred wasn't dealt because the Raps weren't truly serious about dealing him. You understand that's a whole lot of nothing, right? An anonymous member of another team's front office telling someone something isn't evidence of anything. But sure, let's say it was. That has nothing to do with how interested they were in trading Siakam in the summer. The evidence we have that they were interested in moving Pascal in the summer is the weeks worth of rumours, reporting, sour feelings, and the thing you agree happened - Pascal scuttling deals by saying he wanted to test free agency the next summer. Why would Pascal be telling people in the media that if the Raptors were not serious about trading him? I am honestly a bit baffled you're doing this just to what, say the Raps weren't actually going to rebuild until December? How is that so important to you that you'll keep shoveling all this ****?

[douggood]

Nicks are not that far from being contenders. Laugh if you will, but we are the doormats now and it's not changing anytime soo. Top guard. Good center rotation. Solid defenders. Great utility players. They are well set for a run. Some top FAs are going to be wanting to get a piece of that.

knicks are very much in the raptors position pre kawhi trade, depth and tradable pieces(draft picks).

that being said knicks have a very short runway, raptors had a lot off young players on thier rookie contracts, knicks have a lot of players already making solid money with brunson getting a max extension after next year, randle extension eligible right now. og
and harkenstien a free agent this offseason. between all the solid contracts, extensions and stuff they wont be a team with cap space, dont really have tradable prospect now (now that quickley is gone) , they have role players plus all those picks they were hoarding to trade, but some of those picks may not amount to much, plus them being good makes own pick less valuable.

looking at cap sheet, they basically have this offseason/trade deadline to make a big move before the cba and the 2nd apron limits them.

[JB7]

Jak is far from what I would call "such a valuable" asset. Like yeah, he's got value but let’s not get carried away here, he's a mid tier center. The blazers will almost certainly end up with more than 21 wins, they were intentionally sitting players late in the season AND traded away dame.

Individually, yes Yak is not any type of star center, but his impact can almost appear that way, because without him they have no competent defensive C, and typically get destroyed, so his impact is much larger from a team perspective.

It’s why I would say the deal for Yak was not just about trying to improve their chances in the playoffs for that year, but generally just to clear up a significant weakness the team spent 2 years trying to fill. The timing was the deadline because that was the point the Spurs had to trade Yak, and also was the point when the cost was probably the lowest. The summer before Spurs were asking for 2 FRPs, and probably wanted a 2023 pick and 2025 pick over a 2024 pick.

The Blazers have no chance of making even the play in, in the West, so they will have no incentive to win games same as this past year. They will tank hard for a high pick.

[Scase]

I couldn't care less what you think lol. If you can manage to dig through reddits garbage search history, you'd find how absurdly wrong you are. I have wanted Fred gone for years, I didnt want him re-signed at 30/yr or on the team at all.

As I said earlier about the FO :

And according to Masai they didn't find any good packages for FVV, yet according to multiple other FO sources, they were never serious with their intent to trade him. So I see no reason to assume it wasn't the same deal with Siakam.

Not Siakam.

You can be a rude as you want, it doesn't change anything. Just to be clear, supposedly some anonymous FO personnel from some other team said that the Raps were not serious about trading FVV at the deadline in 2023, but there is no evidence of that because reddit has bad a bad search tool. Let's say you are actually remembering correctly and all of the articles by people like Marc Stein etc from this season saying Fred wasn't dealt last year because the Raps didn't like the offers of Luke Kennard and a pick years from now are wrong. Fred wasn't dealt because the Raps weren't truly serious about dealing him. You understand that's a whole lot of nothing, right? An anonymous member of another team's front office telling someone something isn't evidence of anything. But sure, let's say it was. That has nothing to do with how interested they were in trading Siakam in the summer. The evidence we have that they were interested in moving Pascal in the summer is the weeks worth of rumours, reporting, sour feelings, and the thing you agree happened - Pascal scuttling deals by saying he wanted to test free agency the next summer. Why would Pascal be telling people in the media that if the Raptors were not serious about trading him? I am honestly a bit baffled you're doing this just to what, say the Raps weren't actually going to rebuild until December? How is that so important to you that you'll keep shoveling all this ****?

Saying I don't care about your made up narratives isn't rude. If you don't like responses like that, maybe don't insinuate people are liars because of your "feels".

[Fairview4Life]

I couldn't care less what you think lol. If you can manage to dig through reddits garbage search history, you'd find how absurdly wrong you are. I have wanted Fred gone for years, I didnt want him re-signed at 30/yr or on the team at all.

As I said earlier about the FO :


Not Siakam.

You can be a rude as you want, it doesn't change anything. Just to be clear, supposedly some anonymous FO personnel from some other team said that the Raps were not serious about trading FVV at the deadline in 2023, but there is no evidence of that because reddit has bad a bad search tool. Let's say you are actually remembering correctly and all of the articles by people like Marc Stein etc from this season saying Fred wasn't dealt last year because the Raps didn't like the offers of Luke Kennard and a pick years from now are wrong. Fred wasn't dealt because the Raps weren't truly serious about dealing him. You understand that's a whole lot of nothing, right? An anonymous member of another team's front office telling someone something isn't evidence of anything. But sure, let's say it was. That has nothing to do with how interested they were in trading Siakam in the summer. The evidence we have that they were interested in moving Pascal in the summer is the weeks worth of rumours, reporting, sour feelings, and the thing you agree happened - Pascal scuttling deals by saying he wanted to test free agency the next summer. Why would Pascal be telling people in the media that if the Raptors were not serious about trading him? I am honestly a bit baffled you're doing this just to what, say the Raps weren't actually going to rebuild until December? How is that so important to you that you'll keep shoveling all this ****?

Saying I don't care about your made up narratives isn't rude. If you don't like responses like that, maybe don't insinuate people are liars because of your "feels".

Sure thing. I am sorry you can't find anything to support your opinion. And that even if Daryl Morey thought Masai was in lala land again about FVV, it doesn't have anything to do with how seriously the Raptors were trying to move Pascal last summer. You already agreed they were seriously trying to move Pascal last summer when you brought up how he was trying to force his way to a specific team by telling other teams like Atlanta he wouldn't sign there.

[Scase]

Jak is far from what I would call "such a valuable" asset. Like yeah, he's got value but let’s not get carried away here, he's a mid tier center. The blazers will almost certainly end up with more than 21 wins, they were intentionally sitting players late in the season AND traded away dame.

Individually, yes Yak is not any type of star center, but his impact can almost appear that way, because without him they have no competent defensive C, and typically get destroyed, so his impact is much larger from a team perspective.

It’s why I would say the deal for Yak was not just about trying to improve their chances in the playoffs for that year, but generally just to clear up a significant weakness the team spent 2 years trying to fill. The timing was the deadline because that was the point the Spurs had to trade Yak, and also was the point when the cost was probably the lowest. The summer before Spurs were asking for 2 FRPs, and probably wanted a 2023 pick and 2025 pick over a 2024 pick.

The Blazers have no chance of making even the play in, in the West, so they will have no incentive to win games same as this past year. They will tank hard for a high pick.

Yeah but that was kind of my point, he raises the teams floor, but not the ceiling. He has value but not some irreplaceable kind, and the idea is to intentionally get worse. You originally said competing with the bottom teams would be impossible with this team, my argument was it's easy by getting rid of Jak.

[Badonkadonk]

Cavs like very ordinary without Allen complementing Mobley in their back line defense.

[Scase]

You can be a rude as you want, it doesn't change anything. Just to be clear, supposedly some anonymous FO personnel from some other team said that the Raps were not serious about trading FVV at the deadline in 2023, but there is no evidence of that because reddit has bad a bad search tool. Let's say you are actually remembering correctly and all of the articles by people like Marc Stein etc from this season saying Fred wasn't dealt last year because the Raps didn't like the offers of Luke Kennard and a pick years from now are wrong. Fred wasn't dealt because the Raps weren't truly serious about dealing him. You understand that's a whole lot of nothing, right? An anonymous member of another team's front office telling someone something isn't evidence of anything. But sure, let's say it was. That has nothing to do with how interested they were in trading Siakam in the summer. The evidence we have that they were interested in moving Pascal in the summer is the weeks worth of rumours, reporting, sour feelings, and the thing you agree happened - Pascal scuttling deals by saying he wanted to test free agency the next summer. Why would Pascal be telling people in the media that if the Raptors were not serious about trading him? I am honestly a bit baffled you're doing this just to what, say the Raps weren't actually going to rebuild until December? How is that so important to you that you'll keep shoveling all this ****?

Saying I don't care about your made up narratives isn't rude. If you don't like responses like that, maybe don't insinuate people are liars because of your "feels".

Sure thing. I am sorry you can't find anything to support your opinion. And that even if Daryl Morey thought Masai was in lala land again about FVV, it doesn't have anything to do with how seriously the Raptors were trying to move Pascal last summer. You already agreed they were seriously trying to move Pascal last summer when you brought up how he was trying to force his way to a specific team by telling other teams like Atlanta he wouldn't sign there.

Yeah I'm sorry as well, sorry that you can't manage a basic conversation without implying someone is lying due to your emotions.

[Scase]

Cavs like very ordinary without Allen complementing Mobley in their back line defense.

Mobleys offence is horrendous. 3pts in 34min? And people were trying to say he was better than Scottie, unreal.

[Fairview4Life]

The Cavs and Magic should have to forfeit their spot in the semis to the Sixers or something.