How big of a gap is there between the Raptors and Magic?

[Clay Davis]

Wemby was correctly projected as a stretch big despite his poor 3pt shooting percentages.

When he can hit over 35% from 3 consistently, I'll consider him a stretch big. Right now he is still most effective from the midrange and at the rim. Same goes for Sarr right now.

My dog's name is "Rico". He is a high rizz animal and my best friend.

I think the main difference between us and Orlando is that Banchero is just a different sort of player than Scottie. Right now in game 7 against the Cavs, dude has 24/8/2 + 2 steals... and it's halftime. I haven't watched much of him but I wonder if his path to superstardom could be smoother than Scottie's...

I take this back high rizz half... low rizz half.

[islandboy53]

Thats the raps, minus the depth. They managed the 2nd best defence in the NBA, we likely wont be able to muster a top 10 anything.

They aren't a contender and unlikely ever to be, but it's easier to build off the 2nd best defence, than not.

At the same time it wouldn’t surprise me if they were to miss the playoffs entirely next year. We shouldn’t be trying to be like them.

We shouldn't but as of right now we're trying to be a worse version of them lol.

Really? How so?

[ArthurVandelay]

Pretty big gap now.

But let’s not forget the amount of draft capital put into that magic team.

2013 #2 Oladipo
2014 #4 Gordon
2015 #5 Hezonja
2016 #11 Sabonis
2017 #6 Isaac
2018 #6 Bamba
2019 #16 Okeke
2020 #15 Antony
2021 #5 Suggs
2021 #8 Wagner
2022 #1 Panchero
2023 #6 Anthony
2023 #11 Howard

I’m not knocking the Magic here btw. That time frame included two rebuilds and multiple head coaches and GMs. But that is the amount of losing and mediocrity required to get to a first round 7 game series loss.

With some lottery luck this year and one more season in the tank, the Raptors could actually be in a much better position than the Magic. But I don’t believe most Raptors fans have enough awareness to realize what the teams in the playoffs today have gone through to get to where they are (Boston the lone exception).

[Potential]

Give us a little time to improve especially on defense and we'll be the better team in no time. We already have more big shot makers right now and we're only at the beginning of the rebuild

[dTox]

Scottie would never

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[Pointgod]

Correction, we are hoping to KEEP the 6th pick in the lottery. Percentages say we are more likely to lose our pick than keep after the lottery lol

I thought it’s 50-50 to keep the pick? Basically if any team behind us jumps into the top 4 and we don’t the pick is gone. What am I missing?

It's like 54% we don't keep the pick and 46% chance we keep the pick.

Close to 50-50 but yeah still on the edge for us.

[Merit]

If defense wasn't a thing, we'd be very close to them lol

Sadly it's extremely important so we're about 2 years away from being where they are and that's if we hit on our picks/trades/signings.

Nahhh. Things can change a lot faster than that.

[Merit]

If defense wasn't a thing, we'd be very close to them lol

Sadly it's extremely important so we're about 2 years away from being where they are and that's if we hit on our picks/trades/signings.

Putting the ball in the basket is also very important. lol.

Of course and they have a better number 1 option to do that than us in that department as well lol.

Getting a backcourt scorer will be Orlando's next big move and lucky for them, they have all the cap space/picks to make that happen this offseason.

Donovan Mitchell would be great for them.

[sbsat]

If defense wasn't a thing, we'd be very close to them lol

Sadly it's extremely important so we're about 2 years away from being where they are and that's if we hit on our picks/trades/signings.

Nahhh. Things can change a lot faster than that.

Hes point is still valid we are a bottom 5% tem in defender they are too tier. We are not close. Also they washed our relatively healthy team in regular season

[Merit]

Their depth and their defense is what makes them better than us. The defense though is the key. They have plus defenders at almost every position.

The Raptors do not have a lot of either at this point and it's going to take time to get those players. Drafting a defensive player like for example Ryan Dunn isn't going to change our fortunes next year. Pinning your hopes that a rookie changes everything is asinine. It's going to take a few years before we get to that 45+ win threshold.

I’m of two minds on this. On one hand, it would be nice to win, and our young guys I feel have several levels to go still.

On the other hand, being horrible next season is what’s best for our future.

A lot hinges on whether we keep our pick this season. If we do, we have the opportunity to accelerate the rebuild.

[Scase]

At the same time it wouldn’t surprise me if they were to miss the playoffs entirely next year. We shouldn’t be trying to be like them.

We shouldn't but as of right now we're trying to be a worse version of them lol.

Really? How so?

Because we have a mid core, and are trying to build out from it instead of going for more talent. Cept they are better at it since they arent trading futures for mid tier players whilst being in the lotto.

They actually have league leading defence, and we're mediocre on a good day.

Oh yeah, they also have all their picks, and cap space. So they are doing what we should have done.

[Merit]

If defense wasn't a thing, we'd be very close to them lol

Sadly it's extremely important so we're about 2 years away from being where they are and that's if we hit on our picks/trades/signings.

Nahhh. Things can change a lot faster than that.

Hes point is still valid we are a bottom 5% tem in defender they are too tier. We are not close. Also they washed our relatively healthy team in regular season

They are better defensively, yes. They are the team that’s closest to operation 69 as currently constructed in the league. No surprise since Jeff Weltman used to be a part of the Raps FO.

They’ve also had way more continuity and have been rebuilding forever, hence the better depth.

I like our team though.

[HumbleRen]

Paolo > Scottie or = at best.

Franz >>>> RJ.

Suggs = IQ with Suggs having a higher upside on winning basketball over IQ.

Offensively, there’s no real gap. It’s the defensive end where it’s pretty wide.

Suggs is a top 5 point of attack defender in the league for guards. Franz is a legit 2 way player and Paolo is a 6’10 wing himself with length and mobility.

While Barnes is probably the best defender overall here when used right as a help defender, the issue is he isn't used in that way because RJ is objectively a poor defender on wings. IQ is a good team defender in off ball actions but he’s neutral as an on ball defender.

Our 3 guys don’t have enough offensive fire power to make up for their collective mediocre defence. It’s why Gradey’s development is so crucial for us. He needs to be a potent offensive weapon. He showed great signs in the 2nd half but he needs to be much better than just a catch and shoot player and I believe he will be.

[ForeverTFC]

I could be very wrong here but I’m just not buying this Orlando team. I don’t buy Paolo as the first option and I don’t buy Franz as the second option. Suggs will net out as Marcus Smart. Issac’s game may never scale, and Howard and Black are complete unknowns.

So to me, the gap is irrelevant, because if we’re going to rebuild, we need to set up for a higher ceiling. One blessing for us is that even if we are locked into Barnes as the guy to build around, we are not locked into him as our first option.

[RealFaction]

He's going to improve obviously, but Wagner getting the max after that game 7 performance will be amusing. The Magic can hard cap themselves with Banchero/Wagner/Suggs like we would've been doing with Siakam/FVV/Anunoby even though their core is younger.

[ArthurVandelay]

I could be very wrong here but I’m just not buying this Orlando team. I don’t buy buy Paolo as the first option and I don’t buy Franz as the second option. Suggs will net out as Marcus Smart. Issac’s game May never scale, and Howard and Black as complete unknowns.

So to me, the gap is irrelevant, because if we’re going to rebuild, we need to set up for a higher building. One blessing for us is that even if we are locked into Barnes as the guy to build around, we are not locked into him as our first option.

Agreed.

They will have to do some serious work this summer with their cap space and assets to make sure their ceiling is more than a 2nd round or Conference Finals team.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Paolo > Scottie or = at best.

Franz >>>> RJ.

Suggs = IQ with Suggs having a higher upside on winning basketball over IQ.

Offensively, there’s no real gap. It’s the defensive end where it’s pretty wide.

Suggs is a top 5 point of attack defender in the league for guards. Franz is a legit 2 way player and Paolo is a 6’10 wing himself with length and mobility.

While Barnes is probably the best defender overall here when used right as a help defender, the issue is he isn't used in that way because RJ is objectively a poor defender on wings. IQ is a good team defender in off ball actions but he’s neutral as an on ball defender.

Our 3 guys don’t have enough offensive fire power to make up for their collective mediocre defence. It’s why Gradey’s development is so crucial for us. He needs to be a potent offensive weapon. He showed great signs in the 2nd half but he needs to be much better than just a catch and shoot player and I believe he will be.

Why is Franz better than RJ? Suggs is a specialist (defender), IQ will be a borderline star. Paulo is maybe better than Barnes - but if that is the case it just proves we shouldnt build around Barnes.

[sbsat]

Paolo > Scottie or = at best.

Franz >>>> RJ.

Suggs = IQ with Suggs having a higher upside on winning basketball over IQ.

Offensively, there’s no real gap. It’s the defensive end where it’s pretty wide.

Suggs is a top 5 point of attack defender in the league for guards. Franz is a legit 2 way player and Paolo is a 6’10 wing himself with length and mobility.

While Barnes is probably the best defender overall here when used right as a help defender, the issue is he isn't used in that way because RJ is objectively a poor defender on wings. IQ is a good team defender in off ball actions but he’s neutral as an on ball defender.

Our 3 guys don’t have enough offensive fire power to make up for their collective mediocre defence. It’s why Gradey’s development is so crucial for us. He needs to be a potent offensive weapon. He showed great signs in the 2nd half but he needs to be much better than just a catch and shoot player and I believe he will be.

Why is Franz better than RJ? Suggs is a specialist (defender), IQ will be a borderline star. Paulo is maybe better than Barnes - but if that is the case it just proves we shouldnt build around Barnes.

If we get the rj we got this year on the raptors not sure how franz is much better. Scottie does a bit of everything i dont buy how paolo is that much better. We need to draft well and gradey needs to leap. I still agree orlando is miles ahead though sorry we are a sorry ass team right now with some good pieces to build kn.

[HumbleRen]

Paolo > Scottie or = at best.

Franz >>>> RJ.

Suggs = IQ with Suggs having a higher upside on winning basketball over IQ.

Offensively, there’s no real gap. It’s the defensive end where it’s pretty wide.

Suggs is a top 5 point of attack defender in the league for guards. Franz is a legit 2 way player and Paolo is a 6’10 wing himself with length and mobility.

While Barnes is probably the best defender overall here when used right as a help defender, the issue is he isn't used in that way because RJ is objectively a poor defender on wings. IQ is a good team defender in off ball actions but he’s neutral as an on ball defender.

Our 3 guys don’t have enough offensive fire power to make up for their collective mediocre defence. It’s why Gradey’s development is so crucial for us. He needs to be a potent offensive weapon. He showed great signs in the 2nd half but he needs to be much better than just a catch and shoot player and I believe he will be.

Why is Franz better than RJ? Suggs is a specialist (defender), IQ will be a borderline star. Paulo is maybe better than Barnes - but if that is the case it just proves we shouldnt build around Barnes.

Because Franz does what RJ does but is more efficient at it while actually being able to play defence lol. RJ’s eventual role is going to be a 6th man on a competitive team unless he suddenly gets the lateral foot speed to defend his position.

Suggs is a defensive specialist but he’s already made big improvements in his shooting. Him being a better version of Marcus Smart is more impactful than a IQ caliber player.

As for the Scottie debate ? I mean yeah, the jury is out on whether he’s the first option that we build around but at the moment, he’s our best option. You build a competent team and if he doesn’t make the leap, you get a guy via a trade who can be. Similar to the Derozan era.

[sidsid]

He's going to improve obviously, but Wagner getting the max after that game 7 performance will be amusing. The Magic can hard cap themselves with Banchero/Wagner/Suggs like we would've been doing with Siakam/FVV/Anunoby even though their core is younger.

They're in a danger zone of Rashard Lewis'ing themselves again with the Franz/Suggs contracts. The key for them will be having a GM who can pull the trigger quickly on a big move using Franz's contract before the bloom comes off the rose of a tertiary scorer. That's the RJ position we're in trying to rehabilitate the contract. They have the same fate if the GMs are smart.