How big of a gap is there between the Raptors and Magic?

[DG88]

Their depth and their defense is what makes them better than us. The defense though is the key. They have plus defenders at almost every position.

The Raptors do not have a lot of either at this point and it's going to take time to get those players. Drafting a defensive player like for example Ryan Dunn isn't going to change our fortunes next year. Pinning your hopes that a rookie changes everything is asinine. It's going to take a few years before we get to that 45+ win threshold.

[OakleyDokely]

One team plays defense, the other does not.

[HumbleRen]

Offence wise ? I think we can be better than that next year. Their offence is ass.

Defence though ? The gap is huge. Even when FVV, Siakam and OG were here, we couldn’t touch them in terms of defensive ceiling.

[Shakril]

They are playing a few years together. Thats it.

[MEDIC]

One team plays defense, the other does not.

Basically this.

I loved watching Orlando this season. They play hard. They are very physical & they are a defense first type of team. Exactly the type of basketball that I enjoy watching.

They are coached to win & they are coached very well. That may be the biggest difference. Our guys don't play defense.

If Darko doesn't get them playing solid defnse this season, I will be off the Darko train. Coaching change needed.

[dagger]

If defense wasn't a thing, we'd be very close to them lol

Sadly it's extremely important so we're about 2 years away from being where they are and that's if we hit on our picks/trades/signings.

It took Orlando a long, long time to get the assets in place to become a playoff team. It likely took longer than necessary. They are about to embark into new territory - having to extend some of these guys. Wagner and Suggs are up first, Banchero the following summer. Banchero is a sure max, but I'm less sure about Wagner (three point shooting is poor for a SF) and doubt Suggs gets near a max, so there is lots of room for those nasty little issues like unhappiness from failed negotiations that can creep into the locker room next season. Also, they had a lot of injury luck this season. That worm usually turns. So it's not impossible that they tread water next season and we close the gap even if we don't have our own FRP.

[ciueli]

One team plays defense, the other does not.

Basically this.

I loved watching Orlando this season. They play hard. They are very physical & they are a defense first type of team. Exactly the type of basketball that I enjoy watching.

They are coached to win & they are coached very well. That may be the biggest difference. Our guys don't play defense.

If Darko doesn't get them playing solid defnse this season, I will be off the Darko train. Coaching change needed.

We just don't have the defensive personnel to do what Orlando is doing though. We have two good defensive players on this team, Jak and Scottie, when that's the case team defence is going to be bad.

[TheGeneral99]

The gap between the top end talent is pretty close...Barnes and Banchero are pretty much equal, Wagner is better than Jakob, but Quickley and Barrett are better than Suggs and Gary Harris.

What Orlando has is depth: Wendel Carter Jr., Anthony, Fultz, Wagner etc. make for one of the best benches in the league.

In the Lowry-Derozan era we always had very good benches which is what you need to sustain a high level of success for a long 82 game season. The last 3-4 years Masai hasn't been able to build a solid bench which has only been our biggest issue.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/what-nba-team-has-the-highest-scoring-bench-in-the-2024-season

Highest scoring benches in 2023-2024:

Orlando was 4th and the Raptors were 22nd.

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask?q=worst+team+bench+scoring+2022-23

The Raptors had the 29th worst bench production in the league in 2022-2023. This explains why we finished 41-41 that season when our top end talent was actually pretty damn good.

I firmly believe that if the Raptors had a solid bench in the 2022-2023 season it would have been a 50 win team.

[HangTime]

One team plays defense, the other does not.

Basically this.

I loved watching Orlando this season. They play hard. They are very physical & they are a defense first type of team. Exactly the type of basketball that I enjoy watching.

They are coached to win & they are coached very well. That may be the biggest difference. Our guys don't play defense.

If Darko doesn't get them playing solid defnse this season, I will be off the Darko train. Coaching change needed.

We just don't have the defensive personnel to do what Orlando is doing though. We have two good defensive players on this team, Jak and Scottie, when that's the case team defence is going to be bad.

Constant shakeups doesn't help either.

We've basically had 5 different teams this season.

Start of the season to the OG trade (Dec 30)
OG trade to the Pascal trade (Jan 17)
Pascal trade to the trade deadline (Feb 8)
Trade deadline to Scottie's injury (Mar 1)
Scottie's injury to the end of the sesson

[HiJiNX]

I think the margin is pretty wide but can close quickly.

[Indeed]

At the moment, Banchero > Barnes
Sure, stats is similar, but not when it matters.

Banchero can carry a team (1st option), Barnes is being 2nd option/facilitator (not even near Siakam level at the moment).

[OakleyDokely]

ORL has built what Masai was trying to build after the title team. A bunch of 6'9, versatile wings / jumbo wings who can switch everything and defend at a high level. But as you can see, there are offensive limitations with that type of strategy when you have don't have a superstar level player. It will be interesting to see how ORL moves forward. They have a lot of good pieces, but will probably need to consolidate 2-3 pieces for a natural bucket getter eventually.

[Indeed]

Putting the ball in the basket is also very important. lol.

Of course and they have a better number 1 option to do that than us in that department as well lol.

Getting a backcourt scorer will be Orlando's next big move and lucky for them, they have all the cap space/picks to make that happen this offseason.

Banchero had a 54% TS%. You’re not going to go far with that as your 1st option especially after Wagner’s regression. Both need to step it up next year because their offense was just marginally better than ours and we started a G-League team for a third of it.

Orlando doesn’t seem to have any picks left aside from their own and Denver’s pick next year. I’m not sure what their cap sheet is looking like but I’d imagine it will be pretty good for the next year until they have to re-sign all their guys.

We don't even have a 1st option. This is the reason we were better when Siakam was with us, at least someone can create at end game. Barnes is definitely not at that level.

[OakleyDokely]

I feel like Banchero's ideal role is that of a #2, who plays off a #1 scoring guard or wing. I just don't see him ever becoming a legit championship level #1. His efficiency has never been that great, even dating back to his time in college.

[Los_29]

Of course and they have a better number 1 option to do that than us in that department as well lol.

Getting a backcourt scorer will be Orlando's next big move and lucky for them, they have all the cap space/picks to make that happen this offseason.

Banchero had a 54% TS%. You’re not going to go far with that as your 1st option especially after Wagner’s regression. Both need to step it up next year because their offense was just marginally better than ours and we started a G-League team for a third of it.

Orlando doesn’t seem to have any picks left aside from their own and Denver’s pick next year. I’m not sure what their cap sheet is looking like but I’d imagine it will be pretty good for the next year until they have to re-sign all their guys.

We don't even have a 1st option. This is the reason we were better when Siakam was with us, at least someone can create at end game. Barnes is definitely not at that level.

Can you even say Orlando has one? 54% TS% is not good in 2024.

[JB7]

ORL has built what Masai was trying to build after the title team. A bunch of 6'9, versatile wings / jumbo wings who can switch everything and defend at a high level. But as you can see, there are offensive limitations with that type of strategy when you have don't have a superstar level player. It will be interesting to see how ORL moves forward. They have a lot of good pieces, but will probably need to consolidate 2-3 pieces for a natural bucket getter eventually.

The problem for Orlando now is this winning will create expectations of payoffs for players on the roster. They can negotiate extensions this summer with Wagner x2, Suggs, and Isaac. How much these guys get paid will eat into future room.

[ciueli]

Basically this.

I loved watching Orlando this season. They play hard. They are very physical & they are a defense first type of team. Exactly the type of basketball that I enjoy watching.

They are coached to win & they are coached very well. That may be the biggest difference. Our guys don't play defense.

If Darko doesn't get them playing solid defnse this season, I will be off the Darko train. Coaching change needed.

We just don't have the defensive personnel to do what Orlando is doing though. We have two good defensive players on this team, Jak and Scottie, when that's the case team defence is going to be bad.

Constant shakeups doesn't help either.

We've basically had 5 different teams this season.

Start of the season to the OG trade (Dec 30)
OG trade to the Pascal trade (Jan 17)
Pascal trade to the trade deadline (Feb 8)
Trade deadline to Scottie's injury (Mar 1)
Scottie's injury to the end of the sesson

They finished 26th in Defensive Efficiency, the only worse teams were Atlanta, Detroit, Charlotte, and Washington, and it wasn't something that just happened once Scottie was out (they were already 23rd in Defensive Efficiency at that point). Sure, they'll be better next season since it's hard to be worse, but there's a long way to go for this team to be considered a good defensive team, and it probably won't happen without significant roster changes. For comparison, Orlando was 2nd in Defensive Efficiency this season.

[ItsDanger]

Orlando was about .500 last season after November. So to improve to 47 wins this season wasn't that surprising.

[MEDIC]

One team plays defense, the other does not.

Basically this.

I loved watching Orlando this season. They play hard. They are very physical & they are a defense first type of team. Exactly the type of basketball that I enjoy watching.

They are coached to win & they are coached very well. That may be the biggest difference. Our guys don't play defense.

If Darko doesn't get them playing solid defnse this season, I will be off the Darko train. Coaching change needed.

We just don't have the defensive personnel to do what Orlando is doing though. We have two good defensive players on this team, Jak and Scottie, when that's the case team defence is going to be bad.

Sure. But the defense was also very poor when Siakam, OG & Precious were on the team (with Scottie and Jakob). It was the first thing I noticed when the season started.

Right now we have Jakob, Barnes, Brown, Ochai & Quickley who are above average defenders. RJ is probably average.

Then after that, things drop off a cliff...

Hopefully they find some good defensive talent in the draft & Darko & his staff up their defensive game next season. It would be good to have a strong defensive assistant at least.

[Tor_Raps]

Banchero had a 54% TS%. You’re not going to go far with that as your 1st option especially after Wagner’s regression. Both need to step it up next year because their offense was just marginally better than ours and we started a G-League team for a third of it.

Orlando doesn’t seem to have any picks left aside from their own and Denver’s pick next year. I’m not sure what their cap sheet is looking like but I’d imagine it will be pretty good for the next year until they have to re-sign all their guys.

We don't even have a 1st option. This is the reason we were better when Siakam was with us, at least someone can create at end game. Barnes is definitely not at that level.

Can you even say Orlando has one? 54% TS% is not good in 2024.

You clearly need to go check how many 2nd year 1st options there have been in the history of the nba. Then you need to go check how all past stars have performed in their first playoff series. Then you need to understand Orlando doesn't have much other offensive help other than Wagner who fluctuates game to game.

They are built on defense and that's not something you're going to get from individual statistics. Again, they are not OKC in terms of being the next potential perennial championship contenders but they are slowly building towards that.