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Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason

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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#41 » by islandboy53 » Fri May 3, 2024 4:06 pm

OAKLEY_2 wrote:
islandboy53 wrote:
C_Money wrote:
This is what I think too. If we lose the pick to San Antonio then we are not in a position where we can start trading for guys like Wiggins. That’s a good way to half ass your rebuild and get stuck as a .500 team.


Whether we keep the pick or lose it, Brown for Wiggins causes salary problems, starting in 25/26. Let's look at both scenarios, in both cases giving IQ $25 million this year, letting Trent walk, and giving Scottie 25% of the cap in 25/26.

Losing the pick gives us about $150 million in total salary in 24/25 before signing free agents or other moves, so adequate room to use the full NTMLE and most of the Siakam TPE or other salary onboarding moves. Assuming we use the full MLE, but don't bring in any additional salary that isn't expiring, our 25/26 salary runs about $185 million, or just over the 1st apron (if everything increases 3%).

If we keep the pick, that adds between $7.5 million and $12.6 million to 24/25, depending where the pick lands. That reduces our manoeuvering room significantly this year, and again puts us over the 1st apron next year.

There is no possibility that Wiggins makes this team good enough to pay tax for, never mind dealing with 1st apron restrictions for. In short, aside from all the very relevant questions about Wiggins as a player, we just can't afford him.


Conveying is a more boring proposition but all is out of our hands.

I'd never do Wiggins for Brown in a trade of contracts.

1. We should be offering Boucher, McDaniels (Siakam) partial TPE and throw in #31 for Wiggins. Done.
2. Assume we convey and pick next year.
3. Use #19 to take some risk. Am hoping Edey is there. He is a sizeable gamble but he is also a clear development fit with commitment to two Canadian programs.
3. Pick up Brown option.
4. Double sign and trade GTjr for Monte Morris
5. Offer sheet entire mle to Obbie Toppin

1-5
IQ, Barrett, Gradey Dick, Scottie, Jak
6th Andrew Wiggins
7-10
Bruce Brown, Monte Morris, Obbie Toppin, Kelly O
11-15
Ochai Agbaji, Zac Edey, Jordan Nwora, JFL, Malik Williams

Brown is traded to contender at the deadline and Agbaji moves in to backfill Brown.


What I tried to show was that Wiggins contract puts Toronto in serious cap problems by the second year. Trading different expirings for him doesn't change that. Also, you can't "trade" a TPE. A TPE can be used to bring back a player or payers without sending back matching salary, but it can't be combined with anything else. So, the Siakam TPE can be used to bring back salary totalling about $10.2 million. In your scenario you'd need to find another $11 million to send back to GS.

Picking up Brown's option in addition to trading for Wiggins brings us into the tax this fall, and totally removes any flexibility we have. WE'd have, at most, the tax MLE to use for FA, and no room to bring back unwanted salary for assets.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#42 » by YogurtProducer » Fri May 3, 2024 4:29 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
Do people not understand how salary cap space works? Or do people think that Toronto just doesn't have a chance to actually woo an impact player?

Do you not understand? If we decline Bruce we dont get 20M in cap space.



24-25 salary cap = $141m

RJ = $25.784m
Yak = $19.5m
KO = $12.804m
Barnes = $10.130m
Dick = $4.763m
Ochai = $4.130m
Freeman-Liberty = $1.891m
IQ (cap hold) = $12.5m
#1 pick = $10.504m
#19 pick = $2.896m
Total = $104.9m

As per my original post we traded #31 to dump Boucher and Mcdaniels.

That means we would have 141-104.9 = ~$36m in cap space.

Add in Boucher + McDaniels + pick 31 and you STILL end up at ~$19.45m.

So, you are just wrong on all fronts, and especially wrong on my original post idea (which I assume you should have read about the actual context of declining Bruce to free up cap space).

So our plan is to decline Brown, renounce GTJ, give up #31, trade Boucher/McDaniels for nothing.... all to have $36M in cap space to use on players that are not as good as Brown/GTJ/#31/Boucher anyways.

That is just horrible asset management. You would be giving up 4 assets (Brown / GTJ / 31 / Boucher) for the chance to sign... who?

You are right I missed the part of your post where you wanted to gut our entire bench - it is pretty illogical to do that when you can just bring back GTJ/Brown and actually use pick 31.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#43 » by billy_hoyle » Fri May 3, 2024 4:53 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:Do you not understand? If we decline Bruce we dont get 20M in cap space.



24-25 salary cap = $141m

RJ = $25.784m
Yak = $19.5m
KO = $12.804m
Barnes = $10.130m
Dick = $4.763m
Ochai = $4.130m
Freeman-Liberty = $1.891m
IQ (cap hold) = $12.5m
#1 pick = $10.504m
#19 pick = $2.896m
Total = $104.9m

As per my original post we traded #31 to dump Boucher and Mcdaniels.

That means we would have 141-104.9 = ~$36m in cap space.

Add in Boucher + McDaniels + pick 31 and you STILL end up at ~$19.45m.

So, you are just wrong on all fronts, and especially wrong on my original post idea (which I assume you should have read about the actual context of declining Bruce to free up cap space).

So our plan is to decline Brown, renounce GTJ, give up #31, trade Boucher/McDaniels for nothing.... all to have $36M in cap space to use on players that are not as good as Brown/GTJ/#31/Boucher anyways.

That is just horrible asset management. You would be giving up 4 assets (Brown / GTJ / 31 / Boucher) for the chance to sign... who?

You are right I missed the part of your post where you wanted to gut our entire bench - it is pretty illogical to do that when you can just bring back GTJ/Brown and actually use pick 31.


Patrick Williams at $24m per
Jalen Smith at $12m
Room exception: $8m (Gary Harris? Covington? Hayward?)

Much better than Brown (1 year of term remaining), GTJ (a free agent we might not even be able to sign), Boucher (1 year of term remaining), 31st pick.

Your plan guarantees nothing either beside having a #31 pick, bird rights to GTJ and two guys with 1 year of term.

I'm pretty sure your plan is the one that is very short-sighted. I'm gaining cap room before our guys get paid. It's now or never at the cost of 1 year of decent bench players.

I think your position is illogical
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#44 » by YogurtProducer » Fri May 3, 2024 5:02 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:

24-25 salary cap = $141m

RJ = $25.784m
Yak = $19.5m
KO = $12.804m
Barnes = $10.130m
Dick = $4.763m
Ochai = $4.130m
Freeman-Liberty = $1.891m
IQ (cap hold) = $12.5m
#1 pick = $10.504m
#19 pick = $2.896m
Total = $104.9m

As per my original post we traded #31 to dump Boucher and Mcdaniels.

That means we would have 141-104.9 = ~$36m in cap space.

Add in Boucher + McDaniels + pick 31 and you STILL end up at ~$19.45m.

So, you are just wrong on all fronts, and especially wrong on my original post idea (which I assume you should have read about the actual context of declining Bruce to free up cap space).

So our plan is to decline Brown, renounce GTJ, give up #31, trade Boucher/McDaniels for nothing.... all to have $36M in cap space to use on players that are not as good as Brown/GTJ/#31/Boucher anyways.

That is just horrible asset management. You would be giving up 4 assets (Brown / GTJ / 31 / Boucher) for the chance to sign... who?

You are right I missed the part of your post where you wanted to gut our entire bench - it is pretty illogical to do that when you can just bring back GTJ/Brown and actually use pick 31.


Patrick Williams at $24m per
Jalen Smith at $12m
Room exception: $8m (Gary Harris? Covington? Hayward?)

Much better than Brown (1 year of term remaining), GTJ (a free agent we might not even be able to sign), Boucher (1 year of term remaining), 31st pick.

Your plan guarantees nothing either beside having a #31 pick, bird rights to GTJ and two guys with 1 year of term.

I'm pretty sure your plan is the one that is very short-sighted. I'm gaining cap room before our guys get paid. It's now or never at the cost of 1 year of decent bench players.

I think your position is illogical

So we get Pat Will at a huge overpay (and one that Chicago could match, leaving us with nothing)
Jalen Smith who is just Boucher 2.0
And a "maybe" at the room exception because there is no guarantee those guys pick us when every team will offer them that deal.

It just sounds like we get worse players, for the same money, lose flexibility in making moves (cant trade those guys like you can Brown), and give up pick #31 to do it.

Give me GTJ/Brown/31/Boucher over Will/Smith/Harris any day of the week.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#45 » by PhilBlackson » Fri May 3, 2024 5:12 pm

Unless GSW is willing to add a FRP with very light protection (ie/ top 4), then I'm not wasting Brown's contract on eating Wiggins' contract. He simply uses up way too much cap space moving forward, we'll be capped out once IQ & Scottie get their extension so he's not at all worth that. Without a pick I would not even entertain it, that would be a HORRIBLE use of remaining cap space.

Personally I'd be reaching out to the Pels and see what it would require to get one of their wings (from least likely to most: Trey, BI or Jones). They simply can not afford to keep all of those guys and we must get another longer wing. Murphy is THE ideal fit that I'd use Brown + all the picks from the Siakam trade and heck I'd throw in another one (or two - light protection) to get him but have heard Griff loves him, with BI I'd offer the Siakam package (under the assumption he re-signs) and with Herb it's Brown + IND pick.

If not maybe SAC for Harrison Barnes + their 24'. They're gonna need the money to retain Keegan who basically is the same position as HB and no Harrison isn't a game changer but at least we'd have an actual SF on the roster lol. Of course the real piece there is the 13th pick where we can snag one of Sheppard or McCain as our future back up PG then it frees up the 19th to target another position.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#46 » by billy_hoyle » Fri May 3, 2024 5:13 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:So our plan is to decline Brown, renounce GTJ, give up #31, trade Boucher/McDaniels for nothing.... all to have $36M in cap space to use on players that are not as good as Brown/GTJ/#31/Boucher anyways.

That is just horrible asset management. You would be giving up 4 assets (Brown / GTJ / 31 / Boucher) for the chance to sign... who?

You are right I missed the part of your post where you wanted to gut our entire bench - it is pretty illogical to do that when you can just bring back GTJ/Brown and actually use pick 31.


Patrick Williams at $24m per
Jalen Smith at $12m
Room exception: $8m (Gary Harris? Covington? Hayward?)

Much better than Brown (1 year of term remaining), GTJ (a free agent we might not even be able to sign), Boucher (1 year of term remaining), 31st pick.

Your plan guarantees nothing either beside having a #31 pick, bird rights to GTJ and two guys with 1 year of term.

I'm pretty sure your plan is the one that is very short-sighted. I'm gaining cap room before our guys get paid. It's now or never at the cost of 1 year of decent bench players.

I think your position is illogical

So we get Pat Will at a huge overpay (and one that Chicago could match, leaving us with nothing)
Jalen Smith who is just Boucher 2.0
And a "maybe" at the room exception because there is no guarantee those guys pick us when every team will offer them that deal.

It just sounds like we get worse players, for the same money, lose flexibility in making moves (cant trade those guys like you can Brown), and give up pick #31 to do it.

Give me GTJ/Brown/31/Boucher over Will/Smith/Harris any day of the week.


I'd rather overpay a 22 yr old Patrick Williams who fits a need, 3&D SF, was a former 4 overall pick, played behind stars than overpay Bruce Brown (which is what Indy did and we inherited).

Jalen Smith is 24, Boucher is 30+ and has 1 yr of control.

These are guys that are definitely NBA players (young former lottery picks) that are the same age as the some of the guys people are discussing at 31!

We already have Barnes, RJ, IQ, Dick, Yak, KO, Ochai

That's 9 rotation caliber players if you incl Pat and Jalen.

Subtract Pat and Jalen and you still have a 9 man rotation including the 1st and 19th pick. Those guys will need minutes. Next year will definitely be about development

How can you say we are 'gutting' the bench when even if we strike out on higher upside young FAs, we still have a 9 man rotation?

How is that gutting the bench. Brown GTJ and Boucher are redundant or didn't play last year anyway.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#47 » by Dyehardrapsfan » Fri May 3, 2024 5:36 pm

Any free agents on Raptors don’t bring back. Decline Brown.

With cap space , could we go after Malik Monk or Kelly Oubre?

I look at knicks and pacers and how they have been shrewd in the trade market and prospects. They have awesome teams now.

Hoping Masai will get his swagger back and make this team great again.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#48 » by nikster » Fri May 3, 2024 5:36 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:So our plan is to decline Brown, renounce GTJ, give up #31, trade Boucher/McDaniels for nothing.... all to have $36M in cap space to use on players that are not as good as Brown/GTJ/#31/Boucher anyways.

That is just horrible asset management. You would be giving up 4 assets (Brown / GTJ / 31 / Boucher) for the chance to sign... who?

You are right I missed the part of your post where you wanted to gut our entire bench - it is pretty illogical to do that when you can just bring back GTJ/Brown and actually use pick 31.


Patrick Williams at $24m per
Jalen Smith at $12m
Room exception: $8m (Gary Harris? Covington? Hayward?)

Much better than Brown (1 year of term remaining), GTJ (a free agent we might not even be able to sign), Boucher (1 year of term remaining), 31st pick.

Your plan guarantees nothing either beside having a #31 pick, bird rights to GTJ and two guys with 1 year of term.

I'm pretty sure your plan is the one that is very short-sighted. I'm gaining cap room before our guys get paid. It's now or never at the cost of 1 year of decent bench players.

I think your position is illogical

So we get Pat Will at a huge overpay (and one that Chicago could match, leaving us with nothing)
Jalen Smith who is just Boucher 2.0
And a "maybe" at the room exception because there is no guarantee those guys pick us when every team will offer them that deal.

It just sounds like we get worse players, for the same money, lose flexibility in making moves (cant trade those guys like you can Brown), and give up pick #31 to do it.

Give me GTJ/Brown/31/Boucher over Will/Smith/Harris any day of the week.

Yeah makes no sense to give all that up when your best target is Patrick Williams. He's an RFA and the Bulls have no reason to give him up unless they thinks he's overpaid. And even on a fair deal don't know why we would commit long term money to him if he's not a fit in the starting lineup, don't really think his potential is that high.

Funny that he says GTJ is "a free agent we might not even be able to sign" when that applies to everyone he would want to target lol
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#49 » by YogurtProducer » Fri May 3, 2024 5:51 pm

nikster wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
Patrick Williams at $24m per
Jalen Smith at $12m
Room exception: $8m (Gary Harris? Covington? Hayward?)

Much better than Brown (1 year of term remaining), GTJ (a free agent we might not even be able to sign), Boucher (1 year of term remaining), 31st pick.

Your plan guarantees nothing either beside having a #31 pick, bird rights to GTJ and two guys with 1 year of term.

I'm pretty sure your plan is the one that is very short-sighted. I'm gaining cap room before our guys get paid. It's now or never at the cost of 1 year of decent bench players.

I think your position is illogical

So we get Pat Will at a huge overpay (and one that Chicago could match, leaving us with nothing)
Jalen Smith who is just Boucher 2.0
And a "maybe" at the room exception because there is no guarantee those guys pick us when every team will offer them that deal.

It just sounds like we get worse players, for the same money, lose flexibility in making moves (cant trade those guys like you can Brown), and give up pick #31 to do it.

Give me GTJ/Brown/31/Boucher over Will/Smith/Harris any day of the week.

Yeah makes no sense to give all that up when your best target is Patrick Williams. He's an RFA and the Bulls have no reason to give him up unless they thinks he's overpaid. And even on a fair deal don't know why we would commit long term money to him if he's not a fit in the starting lineup, don't really think his potential is that high.

Funny that he says GTJ is "a free agent we might not even be able to sign" when that applies to everyone he would want to target lol

Yeah like obviously if GTJ bails you can re-consider your approach but to me it is frankly horrible asset management to renounce GTJ, decline Brown, trade Boucher and 31, and then HOPE you are able to sign Pat Will. It just doesn't make any sense because A) Pat Will has to agree and then B) you have to wait for days while CHI decides what they are doing. The only way to get PatWill is to overpay - which makes no sense with our long term salary concerns with RJ/IQ/Barne all going to be making big-ish cash soon.

This plan to me screams that we are going to end up with exactly nothing AND lose our pending FA's.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#50 » by Raptorfan2012 » Fri May 3, 2024 5:52 pm

Yeah I don't know where this Pat Williams talk is coming from. Its very hard to pry an RFA away - you will need to trade for them instead of trying to out-bid the team that has their rights. Only way to get an RFA is if that team already has a big payroll and doesn't want to add more - are the Bulls in that position?
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#51 » by YogurtProducer » Fri May 3, 2024 5:55 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
How can you say we are 'gutting' the bench when even if we strike out on higher upside young FAs, we still have a 9 man rotation?

How is that gutting the bench. Brown GTJ and Boucher are redundant or didn't play last year anyway.

Because your entire plan is contingent on:

A) winning the lottery?!?

B) Pat Will agreeing to sign here

C) Chicago not matching Pat Will

D) the #1?? and #19 picks both being playable rotational players.

Your plan just as easily falls on its face, we miss on Will, we dont get Smith, and we end up overpaying some scrubs before extending IQ and ending up with a rotation of

IQ Dick RJ Barnes Poeltl with KO and Ochai off the bench with a bunch of rookies who you never know if they can even contribute.

OR.. you just bring back GTJ and Brown and trade them later. The much lower risk move.

There is NO REASON to willingly trade #31 and lose GTJ/Brown for... Patrick Williams. I would be on board if you are taking a big swing (see - 2021 with Giannis), but Patrick **** Williams?

Is Patrick Williams even better than GTJ? IS he even better than Brown? :lol:
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#52 » by YogurtProducer » Fri May 3, 2024 5:56 pm

Raptorfan2012 wrote:Yeah I don't know where this Pat Williams talk is coming from. Its very hard to pry an RFA away - you will need to trade for them instead of trying to out-bid the team that has their rights. Only way to get an RFA is if that team already has a big payroll and doesn't want to add more - are the Bulls in that position?

There is a higher chance that we do some sort of sign and trade involving Brown and Pat Will (where we throw them #19 or #31 as well) than there is we sign him as an RFA.

That is more interesting to discuss.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#53 » by Raptorfan2012 » Fri May 3, 2024 6:14 pm

YogurtProducer wrote:
Raptorfan2012 wrote:Yeah I don't know where this Pat Williams talk is coming from. Its very hard to pry an RFA away - you will need to trade for them instead of trying to out-bid the team that has their rights. Only way to get an RFA is if that team already has a big payroll and doesn't want to add more - are the Bulls in that position?

There is a higher chance that we do some sort of sign and trade involving Brown and Pat Will (where we throw them #19 or #31 as well) than there is we sign him as an RFA.

That is more interesting to discuss.


I am not sure I want to trade any picks just for the right to (probably) overpay Patrick Williams...
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#54 » by JB7 » Fri May 3, 2024 6:43 pm

PhilBlackson wrote:Unless GSW is willing to add a FRP with very light protection (ie/ top 4), then I'm not wasting Brown's contract on eating Wiggins' contract. He simply uses up way too much cap space moving forward, we'll be capped out once IQ & Scottie get their extension so he's not at all worth that. Without a pick I would not even entertain it, that would be a HORRIBLE use of remaining cap space.

Personally I'd be reaching out to the Pels and see what it would require to get one of their wings (from least likely to most: Trey, BI or Jones). They simply can not afford to keep all of those guys and we must get another longer wing. Murphy is THE ideal fit that I'd use Brown + all the picks from the Siakam trade and heck I'd throw in another one (or two - light protection) to get him but have heard Griff loves him, with BI I'd offer the Siakam package (under the assumption he re-signs) and with Herb it's Brown + IND pick.

If not maybe SAC for Harrison Barnes + their 24'. They're gonna need the money to retain Keegan who basically is the same position as HB and no Harrison isn't a game changer but at least we'd have an actual SF on the roster lol. Of course the real piece there is the 13th pick where we can snag one of Sheppard or McCain as our future back up PG then it frees up the 19th to target another position.


I don't think the Pelicans are moving either TM3 or Herb. They'll move CJ and Ingram before they move TM3 & Herb if money is an issue. Their best lineups were with both on the floor.

Harrison Barnes is interesting from an offensive perspective (floor spacing), but he gives the Raps nothing on D, which you would hope is the benefit of adding Wiggins. But why would Sac need to free up money for Murray? His deal expires the same year as Barnes and Huerter's deals.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#55 » by Chandan » Fri May 3, 2024 6:52 pm

why are people seem to be enamored by PWILL?
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#56 » by MiamiSPX » Fri May 3, 2024 6:56 pm

JB7 wrote:
PhilBlackson wrote:Unless GSW is willing to add a FRP with very light protection (ie/ top 4), then I'm not wasting Brown's contract on eating Wiggins' contract. He simply uses up way too much cap space moving forward, we'll be capped out once IQ & Scottie get their extension so he's not at all worth that. Without a pick I would not even entertain it, that would be a HORRIBLE use of remaining cap space.

Personally I'd be reaching out to the Pels and see what it would require to get one of their wings (from least likely to most: Trey, BI or Jones). They simply can not afford to keep all of those guys and we must get another longer wing. Murphy is THE ideal fit that I'd use Brown + all the picks from the Siakam trade and heck I'd throw in another one (or two - light protection) to get him but have heard Griff loves him, with BI I'd offer the Siakam package (under the assumption he re-signs) and with Herb it's Brown + IND pick.

If not maybe SAC for Harrison Barnes + their 24'. They're gonna need the money to retain Keegan who basically is the same position as HB and no Harrison isn't a game changer but at least we'd have an actual SF on the roster lol. Of course the real piece there is the 13th pick where we can snag one of Sheppard or McCain as our future back up PG then it frees up the 19th to target another position.


I don't think the Pelicans are moving either TM3 or Herb. They'll move CJ and Ingram before they move TM3 & Herb if money is an issue. Their best lineups were with both on the floor.

Harrison Barnes is interesting from an offensive perspective (floor spacing), but he gives the Raps nothing on D, which you would hope is the benefit of adding Wiggins. But why would Sac need to free up money for Murray? His deal expires the same year as Barnes and Huerter's deals.


Yeah, Herb is on one of the best contracts in the NBA, which will look even better once people see how many All-Defensive Team votes he received (don't think he makes either team yet, but probably by next season).
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#57 » by JB7 » Fri May 3, 2024 6:57 pm

Chandan wrote:why are people seem to be enamored by PWILL?


Just looks like a 3&D option at wing. But as an RFA, it will be impossible to sign him without massively overpaying him at which point he loses his value.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#58 » by billy_hoyle » Fri May 3, 2024 9:32 pm

nikster wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:
billy_hoyle wrote:
Patrick Williams at $24m per
Jalen Smith at $12m
Room exception: $8m (Gary Harris? Covington? Hayward?)

Much better than Brown (1 year of term remaining), GTJ (a free agent we might not even be able to sign), Boucher (1 year of term remaining), 31st pick.

Your plan guarantees nothing either beside having a #31 pick, bird rights to GTJ and two guys with 1 year of term.

I'm pretty sure your plan is the one that is very short-sighted. I'm gaining cap room before our guys get paid. It's now or never at the cost of 1 year of decent bench players.

I think your position is illogical

So we get Pat Will at a huge overpay (and one that Chicago could match, leaving us with nothing)
Jalen Smith who is just Boucher 2.0
And a "maybe" at the room exception because there is no guarantee those guys pick us when every team will offer them that deal.

It just sounds like we get worse players, for the same money, lose flexibility in making moves (cant trade those guys like you can Brown), and give up pick #31 to do it.

Give me GTJ/Brown/31/Boucher over Will/Smith/Harris any day of the week.

Yeah makes no sense to give all that up when your best target is Patrick Williams. He's an RFA and the Bulls have no reason to give him up unless they thinks he's overpaid. And even on a fair deal don't know why we would commit long term money to him if he's not a fit in the starting lineup, don't really think his potential is that high.

Funny that he says GTJ is "a free agent we might not even be able to sign" when that applies to everyone he would want to target lol


Why is that funny?

I laid out a plan where we open up cap space to pursue Free agents at positions of need (Big and SF).

Yogurt Producer says to paraphrase....bad idea because we would be giving up 4 assets (including GTJ)... To maybe sigh free agents...

I pointed out that to rebut his stance that GTJ is a free agent...so how is he part of any asset calculus?

Literally MY lol that he includes GTJ as an asset. He's a FA.

Do people read entire threads here?

You guys want to keep Boucher, Brown and 31, and possible keep GTJ at the expense of FA flexibility.

That's a defendable stance.

I think it makes way more sense to renounce and chase better fitting FA.

We can still circle back and resign Bruce or GTJ to a more reasonable rate if we miss out RFAs.

Let's see what happens here.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#59 » by nikster » Fri May 3, 2024 10:23 pm

billy_hoyle wrote:
nikster wrote:
YogurtProducer wrote:So we get Pat Will at a huge overpay (and one that Chicago could match, leaving us with nothing)
Jalen Smith who is just Boucher 2.0
And a "maybe" at the room exception because there is no guarantee those guys pick us when every team will offer them that deal.

It just sounds like we get worse players, for the same money, lose flexibility in making moves (cant trade those guys like you can Brown), and give up pick #31 to do it.

Give me GTJ/Brown/31/Boucher over Will/Smith/Harris any day of the week.

Yeah makes no sense to give all that up when your best target is Patrick Williams. He's an RFA and the Bulls have no reason to give him up unless they thinks he's overpaid. And even on a fair deal don't know why we would commit long term money to him if he's not a fit in the starting lineup, don't really think his potential is that high.

Funny that he says GTJ is "a free agent we might not even be able to sign" when that applies to everyone he would want to target lol


Why is that funny?

I laid out a plan where we open up cap space to pursue Free agents at positions of need (Big and SF).

Yogurt Producer says to paraphrase....bad idea because we would be giving up 4 assets (including GTJ)... To maybe sigh free agents...

I pointed out that to rebut his stance that GTJ is a free agent...so how is he part of any asset calculus?

Literally MY lol that he includes GTJ as an asset. He's a FA.

Do people read entire threads here?

You guys want to keep Boucher, Brown and 31, and possible keep GTJ at the expense of FA flexibility.

That's a defendable stance.

I think it makes way more sense to renounce and chase better fitting FA.

We can still circle back and resign Bruce or GTJ to a more reasonable rate if we miss out RFAs.

Let's see what happens here.

Fair enough that GTJ isn't an asset any more than other free agents. But still don't see that Patrick Williams is actually better fitting than GTJ anyway given we could use his shooting. Let GTJ and Bruce walk and now shooting guard is a hole in the roster.

And your biggest FA target is an RFA that is highly unlikely we can get without overpaying.
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Re: Your Realsitic Raptors Offseason 

Post#60 » by metafisical » Fri May 3, 2024 11:17 pm

Count me on the renounce Brown (unless there is an immediate trade in place. None of that stuff like, "oh, just re-sign FVV and we can trade him at the trade deadline when many offers will come in. Oops! He went to the Rockets. Too bad"), don't re-sign GTj, and keep all our picks.

Keep cap space, not to sign FAs, because FAs don't want to sign with us. Our highest profile FA signings have been Turkoglu and Demarre Carroll lmao. We're pathetic when it comes to free agents. No, I want to maintain cap space so that teams can trade us their negative assets and attach a pick or two with them (e.g., Presti strategy).
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