Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship

KingstonRaptors · Post #21 » by **KingstonRaptors** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:44 pm

I agree with a lot of you guys in thinking that just adding JO wasn't going to make us a championship. Also, you can't really compare Kevin with JO, their not really on the same level.

MjM2xTreMe · Post #22 » by **MjM2xTreMe** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:52 pm

What a surprise. the day we re-signed Jose and make the trade official, he writes something negative. Is there anything this guy doesn't hate? I would love for him to be the GM one day just for the sake of seeing what this know-it-all can do.

Feel free to comment on his article at the website.

v1n5anity · Post #23 » by **v1n5anity** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 12:53 pm

this move was to improve/correct our flaws/mistakes from the Orlando series. As well as getting rid of the controversy in the PG position at the same time clearing cap space for 2010, thus getting JO. So yeah, it's a win-now (but not a championship, just deep in the playoffs) & win in 2010 kinda-deal.

Post #24 » by **Shaazzam** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:02 pm

For me the best part of the article was when he brought up the unwillingness to spend over the cap. But Feschuck is yet another sheep to fall in line with what has worked recently, ie Boston's method of winning a 'chip. We aren't using the Boston model, we are using the Detroit model. Our franchise guy, while an excellent player, is just a notch below the leagues elite IMO. The same could be said for O'Neal. Now people are knocking his performances in recent years, and that's fine. I have my opinion on why he played the way he did, and I held it a long time before yesterday's presser.

We need multiple big men that can perform, which makes a lot of our success come down to Bargnani. A guy I still feel has a chance to be an excellent player. But also a guy, as Feschuck alluded to, is a potential glaring error in the teams construction.

Other than going after Maggette, which I have been against, but I see where he could fit, which magical wing player was available for our assets? I'd be interested in hearing more about the TJ Ford sweepstakes. Because as it stands, acquiring Wallace or Maggette at the expense of a big(O'Neal) doesn't exactly fill me with excitement. People are worried about risk, but using those two guys as examples, who poses less of a risk?

- Magette for 4/5 years
- Wallace for 4/5
- O'Neal for two years

I'll take door number three Alex.

Pchu · Post #25 » by **Pchu** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:04 pm

The reason I cannot talk myself into liking this deal (and believe me, I tried really really hard), is that it doesn't give us a lot of flexibility in the short term. Knowing that MLSE will never pay the lux tax.

Post #26 » by **Rhettmatic** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:07 pm

I like the O'Neal move and I have since the beginning.

But I still say it makes a lot more sense if we trade Bargnani for a wing. There's no point in doing this halfway.

hksazn · Post #27 » by **hksazn** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:08 pm

we need a new owner!!!

Guy Smiley · Post #28 » by **Guy Smiley** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:12 pm

Pchu wrote:The reason I cannot talk myself into liking this deal (and believe me, I tried really really hard), is that it doesn't give us a lot of flexibility in the short term. Knowing that MLSE will never pay the lux tax.

I'm with you right here. If you can't go full throttle than any plan is destined to fail.

What happens in 2 years when JO comes off the books? More moves will be made to fill out the roster that will once again be limited to the lux tax limit.

If JO hasn't played well for years in a difficult situation you have to wonder where his heart is. Guys like Vince Carter and Charlie V get a bad rep for not performing optimally in difficult situations and yet a guy like JO seems to get a free pass.

I'm really glad Chuck Swirsky is gone because it would infuriate me to hear him suck up to a player that he dogged on for years.

Raptorian · Post #29 » by **Raptorian** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:12 pm

I agree, you take TJ and Rasho off of last years team and add JO doesn't make us a contender. I think that what could make us a contender is if Bosh continues to improve, Jose has an even better season, and if (a big if) Bargnani can take a big step forward.

It looks like Colangelo wants to give the raps a chance to excel and if the right things fall in place, this can be a very good team.

Razzputin · Post #30 » by **Razzputin** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:15 pm

whatever,

I love this deal.

JO makes our team better next year and doesn't screw our cap up for very long. What else do you guys want? The move is a risk, but isn't every move a risk? Signing Vince, AD, Alvin Williams, JYD were all lauded as no-brainers. We all know how those deals turned out.

BC doesn't have a crystal ball, he doesn't know for sure if this move will turn out well. But, it does give us a great chance of making it out of the first round.

One important skill in life is admitting that you made a mistake and doing things to mitigate the damage of those mistakes. The team, as constructed before, wasn't going anywhere. So, he did what he could to reshuffle the deck.

Champipple · Post #31 » by **Champipple** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:20 pm

All Colangelo has done in the last 3 years is improve the talent on the team. He continues to do so.

He saw Europe as an untapped market for talent, so he brought in someone who knew it well and brought over a bunch of players.

He drafted Bargnani because he thought he was something special and would flourish in our new Euro-styled team.

He has consistently traded for the best talent in each trade. Can anyone think of a trade BC has done where the Raptors did not end up with the most talented player? I can't.

This move was not intended to be the final piece to winning a championship, but a continued effort to improve the team.

Razzputin · Post #32 » by **Razzputin** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:21 pm

Guy Smiley wrote:
Pchu wrote:The reason I cannot talk myself into liking this deal (and believe me, I tried really really hard), is that it doesn't give us a lot of flexibility in the short term. Knowing that MLSE will never pay the lux tax.

I'm with you right here. If you can't go full throttle than any plan is destined to fail.

What happens in 2 years when JO comes off the books? More moves will be made to fill out the roster that will once again be limited to the lux tax limit.

If JO hasn't played well for years in a difficult situation you have to wonder where his heart is. Guys like Vince Carter and Charlie V get a bad rep for not performing optimally in difficult situations and yet a guy like JO seems to get a free pass.

I'm really glad Chuck Swirsky is gone because it would infuriate me to hear him suck up to a player that he dogged on for years.

JO certainly didn't get a free pass from Indiana fans.

Also, the year before last he averaged 19.4 ppg/9.4 rpg/2.2 bpg in 69 games. Not exactly dogging it.

MjM2xTreMe · Post #33 » by **MjM2xTreMe** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:23 pm

Guy Smiley wrote:
Pchu wrote:The reason I cannot talk myself into liking this deal (and believe me, I tried really really hard), is that it doesn't give us a lot of flexibility in the short term. Knowing that MLSE will never pay the lux tax.

I'm with you right here. If you can't go full throttle than any plan is destined to fail.

What happens in 2 years when JO comes off the books? More moves will be made to fill out the roster that will once again be limited to the lux tax limit.

If JO hasn't played well for years in a difficult situation you have to wonder where his heart is. Guys like Vince Carter and Charlie V get a bad rep for not performing optimally in difficult situations and yet a guy like JO seems to get a free pass.

I'm really glad Chuck Swirsky is gone because it would infuriate me to hear him suck up to a player that he dogged on for years.

O'neal said the on-court/off-court problems had affected him mentally, whether it'd be the brawl or the arrests. Carter simply didn't give it his all because he didn't get what he wants. It's two different situations.

halfcourt · Post #34 » by **halfcourt** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:23 pm

Guy Smiley wrote:
If JO hasn't played well for years in a difficult situation you have to wonder where his heart is. Guys like Vince Carter and Charlie V get a bad rep for not performing optimally in difficult situations and yet a guy like JO seems to get a free pass.

JO was never ever known to be lazy or unmotivated player, he went through a big time knee problem which didn't allow him to be at a 100%. He has heart, dedication and passion unlike VC and he is not semi-retarded like Charlie V

elitehunter99 · Post #35 » by **elitehunter99** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:27 pm

This move looks bleaker in 08/09 but in 09/10 we would have only 8 players under contract. Parker, Garbo, Graham, Adams will not be on the team in 09/10

JO = $22,995,000
Bosh = $15,779,912
Caldy = $9,000,000
Kapono = $6,212,960
Bargs = $6,527,490
Humphries = $3,000,000
Moon = $2,000,000
Ukic = $1,500,000

Approximately we would have $67,015,362 in salaries in 09/10, Depending on how Bargnani performs, if he is traded we could probably have the full MLE to spend on a starting SG and a late first rounder to take over backup SG duties and whatever value we would receive in a Bargnani trade.. There are several Shooting Guards in the 09/10 free agent crop who can be had for the MLE who would improve the team and probably challenge a declining Celtic team in 09/10.. Jamal Crawford, Stephen Jackson, Rip Hamilton, Mike Miller are some realistic options for the Raps in 09/10. Overall, BC has done a solid job with this gamble because if it works the Raptors keep Bosh happy, the fans happy and make a deeper run in the playoffs.. if there is a deep playoff run in 08/09 BC can tweak the roster further to make even more noise in the East in 09/10 as the Celtics will probably start their decline at the point

Korr · Post #36 » by **Korr** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:29 pm

i'm cautiously optimistic, but i've got a feeling the raptors will surprise a lot of people this year.

omeloon · Post #37 » by **omeloon** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:31 pm

We should be using the MLE.

Calderon and Jermaine will be entering their prime real soon, and Bosh shouldn't be far behind. Even if no one thinks we can win it all, this trade was definitely made MORE for the short term than the long term. We gave up a decent draft pick and cap relief for next season. Might as well push this team as far as it can go over the next two years. Offer JR Smith the full MLE for two years. Offer Tony Allen less than the MLE for two years... If the experiment doesn't work, big deal! then we can worry about rebuilding/restructuring the team.

mitch3844 · Post #38 » by **mitch3844** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:32 pm

ya I think this move is to improve this year and take the next step by getting to at least the 2nd round... I think BC know's that he's positioned himeslf to have some flexibilty the next two off seasons... next off season bring in a star wing player to replace AP... next year we make our serious run and the year after we'd have tons of cap room to resign Bosh and then look at other options to team up with him again whether it's JO or we go in another direction ... either way we seem to be in good shape going forward... but who's kidding who... lets have MLSE finally do something for the fans and hop off that wallet of theirs and dip into the Lux Tax area like Boston did... trade for a Jackson and then sign Posey, Defino and other good role playing vets to make this team a real contender THIS year...

Paperclip · Post #39 » by **Paperclip** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:32 pm

i still dont even think we are the type of team that can get past the 2nd round. I think we have a chance to pass the first one this time around though. But i just see it as a attempt to contend without sacrificing flexibility in future.

Post #40 » by **5DOM** » Thu Jul 10, 2008 1:37 pm

and keeping tj+rasho+hibbert is a win-later move?

the fact is that we dont value those 3 guys as much as we do JO.

tj was gonna be a backup.
rasho was pretty good, but he was gonna expire.
hibbert is a #17 pick with not much upside.

one would argue jawai has more upside than hibbert. although he does has much bigger bust potential.

JO addresses our needs and if it doesnt work out, his contract is pretty short anyway.

and most importantly, BC said that he felt like this was the best deal for us from the start

i agree with the guy who said that this is a win-now move with flexibility for the future