Feschuk: Moves not enough for championship

[Komodo]

I agree with the pessimists. We are pretty much a treadmill team now. The only thing that will change that is if Bargnani makes a quantum leap in development, or we manage to package him with what little remaining assets we have for a top-tier wing. With the East getting much stronger, and more balanced, we are not a top 4 team imo. It'd be a success if we make it out of the 1st round, but even that I'd call it a 50/50.

[Guy Smiley]

In theory it would be nice to sit and wait till the trade deadline to see if the piece the team is missing becomes available and/or the Raps are in a position to contend but would it actually work in reality?

In my mind the Raps need a REALLY good player on the wing to be considered a legit contender. That being said, a player like that would dramatically change the dynamics of the team. I tend to think it would be a lot to ask of the team as it is newly constructed to gel and continue the push to a title. Chemistry and game strategy could be significantly altered with little time to knock out the wrinkles.

It is one of my most hated sports related terms I have ever read but I can’t help but feel treadmill team is very apt in the situation the Raptors find themselves in.

[SHootaR]

i can only hope this article didn't actually enlighten anyone...


our depth = 0

[zab_tabak01]

I think most of you are underestimating the value of a healthy O'neal.
Calderon 1 more year under his belt. Bosh coming back from an Olympic gold or silver.
Bargnani more comfortable in a year which he must prove himself a player.

We CAN make the finals. its all about defense. and we've got SIGNIFICANTLY better.

[cdel00]

In theory it would be nice to sit and wait till the trade deadline to see if the piece the team is missing becomes available and/or the Raps are in a position to contend but would it actually work in reality?

In my mind the Raps need a REALLY good player on the wing to be considered a legit contender. That being said, a player like that would dramatically change the dynamics of the team. I tend to think it would be a lot to ask of the team as it is newly constructed to gel and continue the push to a title. Chemistry and game strategy could be significantly altered with little time to knock out the wrinkles.

It is one of my most hated sports related terms I have ever read but I can’t help but feel treadmill team is very apt in the situation the Raptors find themselves in.

The Raps do have 2 REALLY good players on the wing. We under appreciate AP and Moon way too much.
Moon ranked 87th on the RealGM players page and AP ranked 89th. Furthermore AP has to be the best 2G in the league at making the entry pass into the low post and that is a HUGE contribution on this team.

[whysoserious]

I honestly don't get the pessimism over this move. I'm reading we're a treadmill team, that we're not a top team in the East.

For the first time ever, we've gone out and made a big trade for a 6 time all-star that addresses some of the key issues a lot of people complained about last year and the past few - defense and rebounding.

There's no guarantee that just getting young player's to come up through your organization eventually leads to being elite. Look at some of the moves the Cavs have made over the past few season's, they may have gotten to the finals on the back of Lebron but they seem to be falling more in line with treadmill than we are. They just keep moving pieces around.

The Raptors still have three of their main pieces - Bosh, Bargs and Calderon under the age of 27 and the guy they just acquired is not even 30 yet.

It just seems like people want 5 all-stars out there. We know this is not a finished product, but it's one that can be considered on it's way and if JO doesn't work out for whatever reason, we're not locked in too long.

[DarthBane]

I think this move was made for two reasons. It allows us to win now, which will keep players happy and excited about playing in Toronto. I'm sure Bosh and company want to make it past the first round. And as many have said before, it still leaves us financial flexibility in 2 years time.

After what happened with VC, I don't think Toronto could handle having another disgruntled star player walk away.

[zab_tabak01]

but realistically, the stars won't align for us this year and its not roster issues, moreso developement of other players is still needed...aka bargnani

[cdel00]

Look at the FIC40 numbers from the Raps and the Celts and see why the Kool-Aid is so sweet.

JC 17.9
CB 17.6
JM 13.6
JO 12.9
AP 11.1
Raps total 73.1

KG 20.8
PP 14.8
RR 13.4
RA 11.8
KP 12.1
Celts total 72.9

[Guy Smiley]

The Raps do have 2 REALLY good players on the wing. We under appreciate AP and Moon way too much.
Moon ranked 87th on the RealGM players page and AP ranked 89th. Furthermore AP has to be the best 2G in the league at making the entry pass into the low post and that is a HUGE contribution on this team.

I love AP and to be honest he is my favourite Raptor. I spent a lot of the off-season last year defending him because many felt he would start to slide due to age. I believe I was right and he held his own this past season.

However, I think there is a chance the Raptors will be pushing their luck if they rely on him to play heavy minutes for another season. As a fan I believe he will have another solid campaign but I don't think it is fair for us to expect much from him beyond this next season. He might be out of the league for all we know.

Moon is a guy that I think can improve on his surprisingly good rookie season. I think he can bring a lot of good things to the table. He is a limited player offensively but I like his defence and feel he will have a strong season.

We need to keep in mind that wing players in the NBA are flat out amazing. A quick look around the league and we can see that Moon has some serious competition he must face on a nightly basis. I can't think of too many match ups that would see Moon coming out as the favourite.

I like both players and even have a soft spot for Kapono but I'm not really all the impressed or comfortable with the 2/3 spots moving forward.

[cchrome]

whatever,

I love this deal.

JO makes our team better next year and doesn't screw our cap up for very long. What else do you guys want? The move is a risk, but isn't every move a risk? Signing Vince, AD, Alvin Williams, JYD were all lauded as no-brainers. We all know how those deals turned out.

BC doesn't have a crystal ball, he doesn't know for sure if this move will turn out well. But, it does give us a great chance of making it out of the first round.

One important skill in life is admitting that you made a mistake and doing things to mitigate the damage of those mistakes. The team, as constructed before, wasn't going anywhere. So, he did what he could to reshuffle the deck.

Bravo. Well said!

Some people here seem to like the comfort of being a 27-win team with hope - it's very low risk and you get to fantasize about the next draft for eight months. They want to go back to 27 wins because you can never really be disappointed if you accept that you suck - it's just rather humiliating being everyone else's laughingstock and counting the days until Chris Bosh opts out. But you won't be disappointed when you suck because you know in your heart that you suck.

It's harder to be a 50-win team because you want more, and expect more, but when you don't get more, you feel disappointed. Well, actually, I don't feel disappointed. I enjoy watching NBA ball live, and while the challenge is to get better, you can't pin it all on the draft and cap space. The good teams also made some breaks, with a cheap but brilliant signing. Maybe Ukic will provide those who need hope with something to look forward to. But in the meantime, I really, really like the idea that we can go out there and win 50 or more.

Besides, with the East getting better and better, with young players like Rose and Beasley coming to East teams, we're going to get a lot of high quality, well contested games this year, and my season tickets are going to be coveted - (not my ad below, fellows).

On the luxury tax issue, I've stated over and over again that I think there is a time and place where an organization like MLSE will spend on luxury tax, at least a modest amount. But that time is not now. With $4 million or so of our MLE left, I cannot see an MLE signing that would make much difference to the team. A $4 million signing would cost maybe $11 million in real dollars - $4 million in additional salary, $4 million in tax, and $3 million in lost luxury tax distributions. Personally, I couldn't advocate such a signing if I were Colangelo. Now, come the trade deadline if we are on course to 50 wins, and a trade comes up - let's say Parker+Graham+Bargnani+1st rounder for a high quality wing, I think I could make a better case to the MLSE board that this gets us to the East finals and maybe the NBA finals, so let's pay the tax because you can make that money back. But not now, not in the summer, not with Bargnani's value down and very few high end scorers known to be on the market. Also, there will be more teams wanting to dump salary come February.

Thank You. I read every post and couldnt stop shaking my head. This is absolutly crazy to hear Raptor fans reaction to this move. Of course the writer is going to doubt the trade cause he wants to create a reaction, and its working, I could care less about his article. Even the other mods and realgm level guys are falling into this trap, but Im sure will come back and try to change their tune to save face after reading Daggers post.
Do you really KNOW for sure that we could win a championship by getting an elite wing player and paying X amount of $ in tax? What happens if we make it to the 2nd round and lose or the EC finals and lose but paid say 15 mil in tax plus the 3mil or so distribution, then you'd say he didnt get the right guys again, ohhhh its all BC's fault. Im assuming that you'd just love to take on this elite players contract for another 3-5 years and pay more tax too! Just make any trade to get this wing that so many of you are dying for regardless of the contract or deal presented, what are you trading to get him? Bargs? our #1 overall pick who's value is at it's lowest it'll ever be? Is it your money, are you going to chip in out of your pocket if we fall short. You dont even know what we have right now. For one Bosh is not Garnett or Pierce those guys are VETS, he is what? 24, by trading for JO we addressed a problem that crushed us last year in the playoffs. We got a player that can help defend in the post, and as a bonus can score, will this allow our other players to step their game up? Will this create space and confidence for our shooters like Bargs and Kapono? Who knows. I dont even want to write anymore

[YogiStewart]

i am really happy the Raps are not exceeding the tax cap. Fiscal responsibility is something to be admired.

i think that most people would agree that this team is full of question marks. but...let's look at the upside of those question marks.

If Bargs can take his head out of his butt and actually contribute 10-15 ppg and some boards, then that is a plus.
AP shows a bit of something-something like he did in the playoffs 2 years ago - that is a plus.

Ukic - i'm just asking that he hold is own and be better than DMart Sr - that is a plus.

and if Good Joey could come out and Moon learns how to slash...the team looks mighty scarygood.

[Champipple]

i can only hope this article didn't actually enlighten anyone...


our depth = 0

This actually made me chuckle. I have an image in my head of Pat Riley googling Feschuk articles in preparation for an upcoming Raptor game.

A-Ha!!!! So that's their achillies heel!! I'll get you, you, you big stupid dino-team!

[RapTelligence]

In theory it would be nice to sit and wait till the trade deadline to see if the piece the team is missing becomes available and/or the Raps are in a position to contend but would it actually work in reality?

In my mind the Raps need a REALLY good player on the wing to be considered a legit contender. That being said, a player like that would dramatically change the dynamics of the team. I tend to think it would be a lot to ask of the team as it is newly constructed to gel and continue the push to a title. Chemistry and game strategy could be significantly altered with little time to knock out the wrinkles.

It is one of my most hated sports related terms I have ever read but I can’t help but feel treadmill team is very apt in the situation the Raptors find themselves in.

Threadmill teams are teams that are structured to stay the same (due to salary commitments) for 4-5 years and are not contenders. We might not be contenders buy we have financial flexibility in 1 or 2 years. Hence we cannot be classified as a treadmill team.

[YogiStewart]

In theory it would be nice to sit and wait till the trade deadline to see if the piece the team is missing becomes available and/or the Raps are in a position to contend but would it actually work in reality?

In my mind the Raps need a REALLY good player on the wing to be considered a legit contender. That being said, a player like that would dramatically change the dynamics of the team. I tend to think it would be a lot to ask of the team as it is newly constructed to gel and continue the push to a title. Chemistry and game strategy could be significantly altered with little time to knock out the wrinkles.

It is one of my most hated sports related terms I have ever read but I can’t help but feel treadmill team is very apt in the situation the Raptors find themselves in.

Threadmill teams are teams that are structured to stay the same (due to salary commitments) for 4-5 years and are not contenders. We might not be contenders buy we have financial flexibility in 1 or 2 years. Hence we cannot be classified as a treadmill team.

Rome wasn't built in a day...unless you are the Boston Celtics and went over the cap.
even then, Guy is, more or less, advocating that the Raptors become like the Knicks and try to buy a championship.

If Bosh continues to grow and stays here for the long term, and Jose grows, we have a very nice core group of players. things look very nice for the next 5 years

[RapTelligence]

Lets also remember the Celtics are the only luxury tax paying team that has won in a while.
The Spurs, Detriot and Lakers have all not paid the lux tax. Don't know if Miami paid the year they won.

[SharoneWright]

whatever,

What else do you guys want? The move is a risk, but isn't every move a risk?
The team, as constructed before, wasn't going anywhere. So, he did what he could to reshuffle the deck.

Rightly said. And if we've learned one thing from RealGM banner ads its this:
EVERYBODY BETS!

[Guy Smiley]

In theory it would be nice to sit and wait till the trade deadline to see if the piece the team is missing becomes available and/or the Raps are in a position to contend but would it actually work in reality?

In my mind the Raps need a REALLY good player on the wing to be considered a legit contender. That being said, a player like that would dramatically change the dynamics of the team. I tend to think it would be a lot to ask of the team as it is newly constructed to gel and continue the push to a title. Chemistry and game strategy could be significantly altered with little time to knock out the wrinkles.

It is one of my most hated sports related terms I have ever read but I can’t help but feel treadmill team is very apt in the situation the Raptors find themselves in.

Threadmill teams are teams that are structured to stay the same (due to salary commitments) for 4-5 years and are not contenders. We might not be contenders buy we have financial flexibility in 1 or 2 years. Hence we cannot be classified as a treadmill team.

Rome wasn't built in a day...unless you are the Boston Celtics and went over the cap.
even then, Guy is, more or less, advocating that the Raptors become like the Knicks and try to buy a championship.

If Bosh continues to grow and stays here for the long term, and Jose grows, we have a very nice core group of players. things look very nice for the next 5 years

Raptell, I'm not really that optimistic that the financial flexibility the Raps have in a couple years will garner much more success than we have seen thus far. I think history has shown cap space hasn't garnered much in Raptorland.

Yogi, I'm not advocating buying a championship with aging injured players but that is the best course of action in my eyes since Bryan decided to go with JO which was not the route I wanted to go. One of the biggest reasons I DID NOT like the trade was because it smelled like a move the Knicks would make.

If in two years we are left building around Bosh and Jose which happen to be two players inherited from previous management groups then I will be thoroughly disappointed with the way Bryan has handled his assets.

[SHootaR]

Raptell, I'm not really that optimistic that the financial flexibility the Raps have in a couple years will garner much more success than we have seen thus far. I think history has shown cap space hasn't garnered much in Raptorland.

Yogi, I'm not advocating buying a championship with aging injured players but that is the best course of action in my eyes since Bryan decided to go with JO which was not the route I wanted to go. One of the biggest reasons I DID NOT like the trade was because it smelled like a move the Knicks would make.

If in two years we are left building around Bosh and Jose which happen to be two players inherited from previous management groups then I will be thoroughly disappointed with the way Bryan has handled his assets.

well put. and you didnt even slam TJ

agree 100%. with all the praise colangelo gets around here (for doing hardly anything), are we really gonna be content with this NOT working out and waiting another 2 years to rebuild?? Colangelo would have proven WORSE than Babcock if this "plan" (more like a small bandaid over a wound in need of stitches) falls through. He also would have wasted our core youth in very important developmental/chemistry years. I feel like BC just got too giddy when making this deal, and was clearly the 'bitch' in the deal too. We could have made several upgrades to our team with the assets, instead we made one big RISKY upgrade.

[underdog33]

Raptell, I'm not really that optimistic that the financial flexibility the Raps have in a couple years will garner much more success than we have seen thus far. I think history has shown cap space hasn't garnered much in Raptorland.

Yogi, I'm not advocating buying a championship with aging injured players but that is the best course of action in my eyes since Bryan decided to go with JO which was not the route I wanted to go. One of the biggest reasons I DID NOT like the trade was because it smelled like a move the Knicks would make.

If in two years we are left building around Bosh and Jose which happen to be two players inherited from previous management groups then I will be thoroughly disappointed with the way Bryan has handled his assets.

well put. and you didnt even slam TJ

agree 100%. with all the praise colangelo gets around here (for doing hardly anything), are we really gonna be content with this NOT working out and waiting another 2 years to rebuild?? Colangelo would have proven WORSE than Babcock if this "plan" (more like a small bandaid over a wound in need of stitches) falls through. He also would have wasted our core youth in very important developmental/chemistry years. I feel like BC just got too giddy when making this deal, and was clearly the 'bitch' in the deal too. We could have made several upgrades to our team with the assets, instead we made one big RISKY upgrade.

Now that you mention it, I do start to see this is a "buying myself more time" move for colangelo. It was a move that had enough potential, fixed rebounding and defense issued, and could be off the books in two seasons. Although I'm not in favour of going all-in at once, this move was not meant to give off the "win now" vibe anyway.