Spain's eye-catching faux pas (Update PG23)

[Shaazzam]

What I find interesting about incidents like this is that one side will find this offensive and another will not. People will go back and forth as to whether it is or not, bringing up past grievances, both sides being called ignorant and that they just don't understand. And the discussion will stop there.

Many just aren't willing to actually have a discussion on why some find it offensive, why others don't and what we can do to further our understanding of one another. In things like this it's not about being right or wrong and being able to point to some sort of percieved victory in a debate, or that your morals are correct, it's about understanding and tolerance.

And if everyone is simply caught up in how they feel how ignorant others are, what is the whole point of this exercise?

[nordique]

Spanish Federation statement:

http://www.feb.es/NoticiaDesarrollo.asp ... icia=21758

14/08/2008 Beijing/Madrid, August 14th, 2008. Due to the controversy that has arisen in the press because of a gesture made by the Spanish men´s basketball team in an advertisement photo taken before the Olympic Games in Beijing (which imitates the slanted eyes that the Spanish culture affectionately identifies with Asians in general and Chinese people in particular), the Spanish Basketball Federation feels the need to express the following:

1. That, as the immense majority of the Spanish and international general public have fortunately understood, and as the embassy of the People´s Republic of China in Spain has corroborated, that the only significance of said gesture was one of affection, friendliness and recognition, which is what this Federation feels for the people of China and their country.

2. That the FEB has maintains a now long relationship with basketball in the People´s Republic of China, and is committed to its development, which is highly reflected in the tight collaboration found in referee, player and coach training, as in the regular visits that the different teams of the Chinese Basketball Federation have to our country, as they are invited by the FEB to compete and prepare for their international competitions.

3. That beyond athletic relationships, the FEB has been one of the first Federations in the world to maintain commercial relationships with Chinese institutions and businesses, such as the athletic shoe and apparel company Li-Ning, which is one of the oldest agreements that the FEB has. Molten and Lenovo are other Asian companies that collaborate with the FEB, the first of the which has already dedicatedly contributed to the biggest success in Spanish basketball history, two years ago when the world championship medal was conquered in 2006, in Japan precisely.

For these reasons, the FEB considers that this controversy, which is completely gratuitous, was generated in bad faith by some members of the press who wanted to harm not only the FEB´s image, yet also the image of our country and our sport, so we therefore reserve the right to take appropriate legal action in order to safeguard it.

Once this press release has been published, the FEB considers the topic closed, and will not make any further declarations regarding the situation.

[Khan]

@Khan
Calderon did apologized as representatives of the whole team
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... g2008/home

That's today's news. He did not apologize before that. Why can't he just be like Gasol and apologize in the first place? Maybe he is not very willing to? Again, I don't think Spanish team is racist, just the way the treated this issue makes me dislike them.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

@Khan
Calderon did apologized as representatives of the whole team
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... g2008/home

That's today's news. He did not apologize before that. Why can't he just be like Gasol and apologize in the first place? Maybe he is not very willing to? Again, I don't think Spanish team is racist, just the way the treated this issue makes me dislike them.

[Khan]

@Khan
Calderon did apologized as representatives of the whole team
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ ... g2008/home

That's today's news. He did not apologize before that. Why can't he just be like Gasol and apologize in the first place? Maybe he is not very willing to? Again, I don't think Spanish team is racist, just the way the treated this issue makes me dislike them.

What's the point of this photo? that I should dislike Ronaldo? I already dislike him anyway, and he doesn't seem like a smart person to have good judgements...not to mention, it's not an ad that was showing around a whole country.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

That's today's news. He did not apologize before that. Why can't he just be like Gasol and apologize in the first place? Maybe he is not very willing to? Again, I don't think Spanish team is racist, just the way the treated this issue makes me dislike them.

What's the point of this photo? that I should dislike Ronaldo? I already dislike him anyway, and he doesn't seem like a smart person to have good judgements...not to mention, it's not an ad that was showing around a whole country.

The point is that some of you going around suggesting how could they not know its offensive as if the moral rules of your society are world renowned. In other countries it is not offensive.

The Chinese said they were not offended and did not ask for an apology.

The ones who started this in the first place were the British which have an agenda and the US who is the last country who should be going around demanding apologies on the part of others.

Had China said something I am sure the apology would have come right away but since it is these 3rd parties with their own agendas its another issue altogether.

[mihaic]

^^^ to khan
The point is that the gesture made by Ronaldo, Spanish teams, and others may be made in good faith and is considered humorous or suggestive (i.e. pertains to asian culture, which is not negative or pejorative) The gesture is therefore not necessarily offensive outside US and Canada (it basically depends on context)

The context in which the photo was made is clearly non racial even if some US or Brit papers would like to make it look that way

But it seems you have made your mind that you need to dislike Calderon regardless of what you are responded so I guess I am just wasting my time

[Khan]

The point is that some of you going around suggesting how could they not know its offensive as if the moral rules of your society are world renowned. In other countries it is not offensive.

The Chinese said they were not offended and did not ask for an apology.

The ones who started this in the first place were the British which have an agenda and the US who is the last country who should be going around demanding apologies on the part of others.

Had China said something I am sure the apology would have come right away but since it is these 3rd parties with their own agendas its another issue altogether.

Clearly, you don't know anything about the Chinese government. Why would they want to stir up anything when they are the host of the olympics? The whole point of the olympics was to show the generosity of China, and to ask Spain to apologize something that's not racist is not that important. They already have a lot of other issues to deal with. The Chinese government never made a statement on this issue, so who said they are not offended? If you can read Chinese, google their news websites, if not, where did our assumption come from? RealGM?

I never found the picture offensive, but that's just me. I am sure there are some asian people that find it disturbing, and I find their apologies came a little late.

[Sugarless]

No matter how many times, by how many people and on how many places it's said, some people will never want to understand such a simple fact: not only is it not intended to be racist, it's meant to be affective, a demonstration of a well related sympathy for them (we happen to have a HUGE chinese comunity in Spain for those of you who couldn't know less what you're talking about).

By the way, since you all seem to love sensationalist journalism, how about this?



I bet a whole bunch of the +125.000.000 Japanese have something to say about that picture considering Japan's history with the US army and the fact that such a photo was taken in Japanese soil, barely 400 miles from Hiroshima. And, you know what? Those NBA guys over there were representing the US, wearing the NT gear and had the US flag in front of them. Thank God the good ol' patriots back in the US let them in when they left Japan, right Mr. Kidd?

Since building bridges between cultures is not your favorite thing to do (most of you prefer to blow them out), do you want to talk about this? I guess you don't.

But I know, I know, this has nothing to do with offending anyone in the world. How dare I insinuate something like that?

I'm tired of hypocrites.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

The point is that some of you going around suggesting how could they not know its offensive as if the moral rules of your society are world renowned. In other countries it is not offensive.

The Chinese said they were not offended and did not ask for an apology.

The ones who started this in the first place were the British which have an agenda and the US who is the last country who should be going around demanding apologies on the part of others.

Had China said something I am sure the apology would have come right away but since it is these 3rd parties with their own agendas its another issue altogether.

Clearly, you don't know anything about the Chinese government. Why would they want to stir up anything when they are the host of the olympics? The whole point of the olympics was to show the generosity of China, and to ask Spain to apologize something that's not racist is not that important. They already have a lot of other issues to deal with. The Chinese government never made a statement on this issue, so who said they are not offended? If you can read Chinese, google their news websites, if not, where did our assumption come from? RealGM?

I never found the picture offensive, but that's just me. I am sure there are some asian people that find it disturbing, and I find their apologies came a little late.

That photo by Ronaldo is in Japan. Is the Japanese Government Communist and unable to respond?

You cannot conclude the Chinese are offended.

First, people claimed the Chinese were booing Spain in the basketball game...then it was pointed out that they had no knowledge of the pic. So then it was claimed that obviously they would be offended if they knew but can't because of the Communist Government.

You guys are trying to grab at straws and spin this anyway possible to suit your perspective. Now here is a pic of a Brazilian Superstar at the time in Japan. Why aren't they offended?

[Khan]

^^^ to khan
The point is that the gesture made by Ronaldo, Spanish teams, and others may be made in good faith and is considered humorous or suggestive (i.e. pertains to asian culture, which is not negative or pejorative) The gesture is therefore not necessarily offensive outside US and Canada (it basically depends on context)

The context in which the photo was made is clearly non racial even if some US or Brit papers would like to make it look that way

But it seems you have made your mind that you need to dislike Calderon regardless of what you are responded so I guess I am just wasting my time

It may seem humorous to some people, but what about those that find it offensive? Who determines if the gesture is offensive or not? It's not all about the North Americans. Assuming China is not hosting the Olympics, the situation could be different.

I just don't like how Calderon expressed his thoughts to the media even though he apologized, I don't think it's cool. If it's a waste of time, you shouldn't bother to post something like that I guess. sorry that i wasted your time?

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

No matter how many times, by how many people and on how many places it's said, some people will never want to understand such a simple fact: not only is it not intended to be racist, it's meant to be affective, a demonstration of a well related sympathy for them (we happen to have a HUGE chinese comunity in Spain for those of you who couldn't know less what you're talking about).

By the way, since you all seem to love sensationalist journalism, how about this?



I bet a whole bunch of the +125.000.000 Japanese have something to say about that picture considering Japan's history with the US army and the fact that such a photo was taken in Japanese soil, barely 400 miles from Hiroshima. And, you know what? Those NBA guys over there were representing the US, wearing the NT gear and had the US flag in front of them. Thank God the good ol' patriots back in the US let them in when they left Japan, right Mr. Kidd?

Since building bridges between cultures is not your favorite thing to do (most of you prefer to blow them out), do you want to talk about this? I guess you don't.

But I know, I know, this has nothing to do with offending anyone in the world. How dare I insinuate something like that?

I'm tired of hypocrites.

See that is the problem. Its not the apology it is who is making the accusations.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

^^^ to khan
The point is that the gesture made by Ronaldo, Spanish teams, and others may be made in good faith and is considered humorous or suggestive (i.e. pertains to asian culture, which is not negative or pejorative) The gesture is therefore not necessarily offensive outside US and Canada (it basically depends on context)

The context in which the photo was made is clearly non racial even if some US or Brit papers would like to make it look that way

But it seems you have made your mind that you need to dislike Calderon regardless of what you are responded so I guess I am just wasting my time

It may seem humorous to some people, but what about those that find it offensive? Who determines if the gesture is offensive or not? It's not all about the North Americans. Assuming China is not hosting the Olympics, the situation could be different.

I just don't like how Calderon expressed his thoughts to the media even though he apologized, I don't think it's cool. If it's a waste of time, you shouldn't bother to post something like that I guess. sorry that i wasted your time?

So he shouldn't be mad that the British Media are always on a witch hunt to portray the Spaniards as Barbarians?

No one knows if the China is offended. The gesture is not offensive in Spain. And yet we have these 3rd parties demanding apologies with their own agenda.

[Khan]

The point is that some of you going around suggesting how could they not know its offensive as if the moral rules of your society are world renowned. In other countries it is not offensive.

The Chinese said they were not offended and did not ask for an apology.

The ones who started this in the first place were the British which have an agenda and the US who is the last country who should be going around demanding apologies on the part of others.

Had China said something I am sure the apology would have come right away but since it is these 3rd parties with their own agendas its another issue altogether.

Clearly, you don't know anything about the Chinese government. Why would they want to stir up anything when they are the host of the olympics? The whole point of the olympics was to show the generosity of China, and to ask Spain to apologize something that's not racist is not that important. They already have a lot of other issues to deal with. The Chinese government never made a statement on this issue, so who said they are not offended? If you can read Chinese, google their news websites, if not, where did our assumption come from? RealGM?

I never found the picture offensive, but that's just me. I am sure there are some asian people that find it disturbing, and I find their apologies came a little late.

That photo by Ronaldo is in Japan. Is the Japanese Government Communist and unable to respond?

You cannot conclude the Chinese are offended.

First, people claimed the Chinese were booing Spain in the basketball game...then it was pointed out that they had know knowledge of the pic. So then it was claimed that obviously they would be offended if they knew but can't because of the Communist Government.

You guys are trying to grab at straws and spin this anyway possible to suit your perspective. Now here is a pic of a Brazilian Superstar at the time in Japan. Why aren't they offended?

Why aren't Japanese offended? How do I know? Maybe some fans were offended? Maybe nobody in Japan were offended? Seriously, I'll show you some Chinese articles translated in English by Google. You tell me if they do not care at all. last thing...stop thinking I find the picture racist. insensitive and racist are two different things...

Source 1
Source 2

[Khan]

So he shouldn't be mad that the British Media are always on a witch hunt to portray the Spaniards as Barbarians?

No one knows if the China is offended. The gesture is not offensive in Spain. And yet we have these 3rd parties demanding apologies with their own agenda.

I am not commenting on how he felt about the British Media. I am just commenting on his first reaction to the latest apology. Why would the gesture be offensive in Spain? Spain is full of Chinese people? I don't care about how the Americans or British felt on this issue, just the team are public figures, they should be more knowledgeable on this kind of situation.

[DG88]

@Khan
1) Yes you are right that he should have apologized first then explain himself and the reason for the photo i understand that.
2)The ad was targeted only for the people of spain not britian, not NA just spain
3)Was it inappropriate yes, was it a case of bad judgment yes, did the team apologize about the photo yes, so this should end the dicussion about the photo, which had no racist intent.

Now i pose this question to everyone on this board, does this photo change your opinon on Calderon as a basketball player and as a human being?

[bakafool]

@Khan
1) Yes you are right that he should have apologized first then explain himself and the reason for the photo i understand that.
2)The ad was targeted only for the people of spain not britian, not NA just spain
3)Was it inappropriate yes, was it a case of bad judgment yes, did the team apologize about the photo yes, so this should end the dicussion about the photo, which had no racist intent.

Now i pose this question to everyone on this board, does this photo change your opinon on Calderon as a basketball player and as a human being?

Nope.

[Khan]

@Khan
1) Yes you are right that he should have apologized first then explain himself and the reason for the photo i understand that.
2)The ad was targeted only for the people of spain not britian, not NA just spain
3)Was it inappropriate yes, was it a case of bad judgment yes, did the team apologize about the photo yes, so this should end the dicussion about the photo, which had no racist intent.

Now i pose this question to everyone on this board, does this photo change your opinon on Calderon as a basketball player and as a human being?

finally someone knows what I am talking about...

last thing...since internet takes everyone access anywhere, even though it's a local advertisement, other countries still have access to see it.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

So he shouldn't be mad that the British Media are always on a witch hunt to portray the Spaniards as Barbarians?

No one knows if the China is offended. The gesture is not offensive in Spain. And yet we have these 3rd parties demanding apologies with their own agenda.

I am not commenting on how he felt about the British Media. I am just commenting on his first reaction to the latest apology. Why would the gesture be offensive in Spain? Spain is full of Chinese people? I don't care about how the Americans or British felt on this issue, just the team are public figures, they should be more knowledgeable on this kind of situation.

The Media war between Britain and Spain has been going on for years, so they see it just another battle in the war between Britain and Spain.

If Sweden, Chile, Philippines etc had made the criticism or even China itself then there would have been apology and end of story.

Since its the British who clearly know the intent of the pic but who are intent on throwing Spain under the bus..it has become an entire different issue. Had the British paper not gone around seeking publicity nothing would have happened.

See its not the British Media intent to suggest its a misguided pic, its their intent to portray Spain as Barbaric Racists. I don't expect to receive an apology from them.

[PHANTOMPHOENIX]

finally someone knows what I am talking about...

last thing...since internet takes everyone access anywhere, even though it's a local advertisement, other countries still have access to see it.

This access thing is stupid. You would have never seen the pic had the British paper not made it an international event.

Do you read Marca on a daily basis? I can't even access their ads online